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Who is next to dominate GT's?

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09 Dec 2012 21:39

The original title is: "Who is next to dominate GT's?", so I've expressed my opinion.
On the other hand, on your question I'll answer: Let's wait and see in couple of years who'll appear.

Clear enough?
User avatar serfla
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09 Dec 2012 21:44

serfla wrote:The original title is: "Who is next to dominate GT's?", so I've expressed my opinion.
On the other hand, on your question I'll answer: Let's wait and see in couple of years who'll appear.

Clear enough?


So why did you write that? : "read more carefully."
User avatar Jason_Mercier
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09 Dec 2012 21:45

'Cause you were talking about years and I about GTs.
User avatar serfla
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09 Dec 2012 21:50

5 years may be a stretch but i wouldn't be surprised with 3 more years of domination and 2 years of declining performances. taking armstrong out of the equation for obvious reasons (like the fact that he was a late bloomer ;) )

all the riders you mentioned used to race heavy racing schedules with multiple GT's per years and a lot of 1 week races and classics.

bernard hinault rode 13 GT from 78 to 86 only finishing 1st or 2nd on all them cept 1 tour where he had to withdrew (jesus christ that's impressive) plus full classics campaigns

lemond was shot by a gun and by the epo era but even with all of that for example btw 84 and 86 he rode 5 GT with to giro tour back to back rides.

big mig rode 11 GT's in his 5 dominant years!!!! with worlds, olympics and 1 week races in the middle.

contador gives the idea of racing a lot because he is always there trying to win but the fact is he has been saving his body a lot even since he stepped up in 2007. in 07,09,10 and 11 he stopped racing in july in 08 he did the easier giro vuelta double but didn't ride any of the spring classics only racing a couple 1 week races not any race after the vuelta. and he spent most 2012 benched so that's another "soft" year for him. his tougher year was by far 2010 with the giro and the tour back to back and several crashes that injured him at the tour. but that's one season out of 6.
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09 Dec 2012 22:32

Parrulo wrote:5 years may be a stretch but i wouldn't be surprised with 3 more years of domination and 2 years of declining performances. taking armstrong out of the equation for obvious reasons (like the fact that he was a late bloomer ;) )

all the riders you mentioned used to race heavy racing schedules with multiple GT's per years and a lot of 1 week races and classics.

bernard hinault rode 13 GT from 78 to 86 only finishing 1st or 2nd on all them cept 1 tour where he had to withdrew (jesus christ that's impressive) plus full classics campaigns

lemond was shot by a gun and by the epo era but even with all of that for example btw 84 and 86 he rode 5 GT with to giro tour back to back rides.

big mig rode 11 GT's in his 5 dominant years!!!! with worlds, olympics and 1 week races in the middle.

contador gives the idea of racing a lot because he is always there trying to win but the fact is he has been saving his body a lot even since he stepped up in 2007. in 07,09,10 and 11 he stopped racing in july in 08 he did the easier giro vuelta double but didn't ride any of the spring classics only racing a couple 1 week races not any race after the vuelta. and he spent most 2012 benched so that's another "soft" year for him. his tougher year was by far 2010 with the giro and the tour back to back and several crashes that injured him at the tour. but that's one season out of 6.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWaioX6Ycrw

The Tour that ruined Merckx.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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10 Dec 2012 00:24

Panda Claws wrote:Ahead of Rodriguez as he said


Yes, I am aware of who finished behind him.
"... because he set an amazing example. He has more courage than anyone I ever rode with and that's why he got respect from his team-mates. A great leader makes you want to go beyond the limits."

Andrea Noè on Di Luca, "Il Killer di Spoltore"
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10 Dec 2012 04:08

So the whole "america's next GT hope" will surround Dombrowski as it has TJVG and Talasnky.
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10 Dec 2012 07:08

For a rider to dominate they usually show up at a young age. Eddy, Contador, Hinault, Lemond etc. I did not see Armstrong on the horizon at all as a GC winner but we won't get into that. I can't see any of the current young riders "dominating" but in a year or two that could change. I am in two minds about riders like Froome and how much better will he get ? Some riders peak when they are young and for various reasons don't improve while others take much longer to hit their peak. There is a fair chance that we may have already seen the best of Contador and Andy. Many people spotted Andy as a precocious talent but he has not been able to win a grand tour on the road.
movingtarget
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10 Dec 2012 07:37

movingtarget wrote:For a rider to dominate they usually show up at a young age. Eddy, Contador, Hinault, Lemond etc. I did not see Armstrong on the horizon at all as a GC winner but we won't get into that. I can't see any of the current young riders "dominating" but in a year or two that could change. I am in two minds about riders like Froome and how much better will he get ? Some riders peak when they are young and for various reasons don't improve while others take much longer to hit their peak. There is a fair chance that we may have already seen the best of Contador and Andy. Many people spotted Andy as a precocious talent but he has not been able to win a grand tour on the road.


All dominant GT riders are solid/great TT'ers with various degrees of climbing skills. Don't think that will change moving forward.
Dazed and Confused
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10 Dec 2012 08:44

Dazed and Confused wrote:All dominant GT riders are solid/great TT'ers with various degrees of climbing skills. Don't think that will change moving forward.


Well the routes are changing or have at least changed to make tting a far less.important factor than they were so if that remains then guys who aren't great tters could dominate through climbing skills alone.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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10 Dec 2012 09:50

The Hitch wrote:Well the routes are changing or have at least changed to make tting a far less.important factor than they were so if that remains then guys who aren't great tters could dominate through climbing skills alone.


Sure, but the approach to racing in the mountains has changed as well. I see no evidence of conservative and defensive tactics going out the window even as the balance of the parcours favors the climbers. We shall see.
Dazed and Confused
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10 Dec 2012 12:56

Altitude wrote:Yeah but Hesjedal? Come on.


In Hesjadel's defense, he showed potential for grand tour success in 2010 finishing top 10 of the Tour gc and having an impressive showing on the Tourmalet stage, I believe finishing in the top 5. He crashed out of the Tour in 2011, missing an opportunity to follow up on his fine showing and then in 2012 his Giro was to be followed by a Tour, going into which he was feeling even stronger than at the Giro. Additionally coming from a mountain biking background his career trajectory could be compared to Evans in that he may not reach his peak until later.
"It's a little bit scarey when Contador attacks." Tommie Voeckler
User avatar Angliru
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10 Dec 2012 14:03

Angliru wrote:In Hesjadel's defense, he showed potential for grand tour success in 2010 finishing top 10 of the Tour gc and having an impressive showing on the Tourmalet stage, I believe finishing in the top 5. He crashed out of the Tour in 2011, missing an opportunity to follow up on his fine showing and then in 2012 his Giro was to be followed by a Tour, going into which he was feeling even stronger than at the Giro. Additionally coming from a mountain biking background his career trajectory could be compared to Evans in that he may not reach his peak until later.


He has improved and he rode very well in the Giro but would he make the top five in next year's Tour ? He's smart enough to target the Giro instead where I think he will be the biggest danger to Wiggins unless Rodriguez can continue to improve.
movingtarget
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10 Dec 2012 14:11

it's so much bs that people claim the giro isn't too take serious becaus eof hesjedal. what were these people thinking after the 2007 tour with contador, soler and "rasmussen" being the strongest all of a sudden :rolleyes:
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10 Dec 2012 14:59

Additionally coming from a mountain biking background his career trajectory could be compared to Evans in that he may not reach his peak until later.


This isnt true. With 24 years Cadel Evans won the Tour of Austria and the Brixia Tour. With 25 he was the pink jersey of the Giro D'Italia before the last mountain stage of the race. He lost 17 minutes in that last stage and even finished out of the top10 but he was the top favourite to win that Giro D'italia. So who was Hesjedal with 24, 25, 26, 27 and 28 years compared with Evans?
User avatar Jason_Mercier
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10 Dec 2012 15:01

Ryo Hazuki;1090799]it's so much bs that people claim the giro isn't too take serious becaus eof hesjedal. what were these people thinking after the 2007 tour with contador, soler and "rasmussen" being the strongest all of a sudden :rolleyes:

Are you comparing the most impressive GT of the last 5 years with the Giro D'Italia of 2012?
User avatar Jason_Mercier
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10 Dec 2012 15:30

Jason_Mercier wrote:This isnt true. With 24 years Cadel Evans won the Tour of Austria and the Brixia Tour. With 25 he was the pink jersey of the Giro D'Italia before the last mountain stage of the race. He lost 17 minutes in that last stage and even finished out of the top10 but he was the top favourite to win that Giro D'italia. So who was Hesjedal with 24, 25, 26, 27 and 28 years compared with Evans?


You are so right. This was clearly Evans peak. Everything he has done since then - winning the tour coming 2nd twice, podium.of.vuelta , fw , world championship, etc was just Evans going downhill from the peak that won him the braxia tour and ostriech rundfahrt.:rolleyes:
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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10 Dec 2012 16:30

Jason_Mercier wrote:This isnt true. With 24 years Cadel Evans won the Tour of Austria and the Brixia Tour. With 25 he was the pink jersey of the Giro D'Italia before the last mountain stage of the race. He lost 17 minutes in that last stage and even finished out of the top10 but he was the top favourite to win that Giro D'italia. So who was Hesjedal with 24, 25, 26, 27 and 28 years compared with Evans?


After that he was the posterchild for unrealized potential, an almost ran in the big events that he couldn't win until he was in his 30's. I never said that their career trajectories were identical, only that Hesjedal could potentially reach his best results later in his career, similar to Evans. Evans never came close to the near Giro success until later in his career. Part of that of course could be attributed to bad luck with injuries and politics of the teams that he chose to ride for (T-Mobile) but still when he was healthy and riding for himself he only reached his best results in his 30's as I stated previously.
"It's a little bit scarey when Contador attacks." Tommie Voeckler
User avatar Angliru
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10 Dec 2012 16:52

Cadel Evans always demonstrated have the talent. Ryder Hesjedal never did nothing until 28 years. Their peaks have been later in their careers. But the both trajectories arent similar.
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10 Dec 2012 16:53

Jason_Mercier wrote:Are you comparing the most embarrassing GT of the last 5 years with the Giro D'Italia of 2012?


Corrected you there. :cool:
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