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The Better Overall Rider: Evans or Contador

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Better overall rider

Cadel Evans
34
22%
Alberto Contador
120
78%
 
Total votes : 154

16 Dec 2012 00:41

[quote="El Pistolero"]You have no problem comparing a 23-24 year old Contador to an Evans in full prime I see.

Tactical errors? Is that what you guys call getting dropped hard on a mountain?

Contador is much younger than Evans and he already won 6 more GTs than him.[/QUOTE]

His first TDF was at the age of 27-28 in 05. Contador was 22 that year. Evans should have been able to ride a lot earlier.
I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong

The Grand Boucle wasn't just Europe's for the taking.

Quote:VAE
"Has Porte ever dropped Nibali in any mountain?"
D&C "He will soon..."
greenedge
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16 Dec 2012 00:45

El Pistolero wrote:Yeah, people here tend to be stuck on certain memories of more recent events. I agree with your conclusion, he's a better one day rider and it would be a toss-up between them on a short uphill finish, but that's about it.


Mellow Velo wrote:Hadn't realised the forum has nearly 20 Aussie members.


Yeah but I did not vote for Evans- hence the vote count:D

Evans has won on most of their hilltop finish encounters (F-W and stage 4 of the 2011 TDF).
I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong

The Grand Boucle wasn't just Europe's for the taking.

Quote:VAE
"Has Porte ever dropped Nibali in any mountain?"
D&C "He will soon..."
greenedge
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Joined: 27 Mar 2011 04:23

16 Dec 2012 00:56

greenedge wrote:Yeah but I did not vote for Evans- hence the vote count:D

Evans has won on most of their hilltop finish encounters (F-W and stage 4 of the 2011 TDF).


He narrowly won on that TDF stage and Contador already did a hard Giro back then plus he crashed on the first stage.

Contador has beaten Evans on hilly uphill stages in Pais Vasco and what not.

It took how many attempts for Evans to finally get it right on the Mur de Huy? Remember, Contador is still relatively young.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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16 Dec 2012 01:02

It's clearly Evans.

Have you won a Grand Tour?

Evans - Yes
Contador - Yes

Have you ever won a classic?

Evans - Yes
Contador - No

Have you ever been World Champion in any form of the sport?

Evans - Yes
Contador - No

Have you done anything outside road racing?

Evans - Yes
Contador - No

It's clear cut. Contador does what he does and he does it well. But he's a stage racer and that's it. When it comes to 'all round' credentials he has nothing on Evans (or Wiggins).
Parker
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16 Dec 2012 01:04

Parker wrote:It's clearly Evans.

Have you won a Grand Tour?

Evans - Yes
Contador - Yes

Have you ever won a classic?

Evans - Yes
Contador - No

Have you ever been World Champion in any form of the sport?

Evans - Yes
Contador - No

Have you done anything outside road racing?

Evans - Yes
Contador - No

It's clear cut. Contador does what he does and he does it well. But he's a stage racer and that's it. When it comes to 'all round' credentials he has nothing on Evans (or Wiggins).


Too bad Contador dusts Evans in most aspects of stage racing which includes climbing, time-trials, recuperation/consistency, etc. ;)

Let's go back 5 years ago and Evans didn't do any of that. MTB is irrelevant as Contador started in road cycling.

Flèche Wallonne is just an uphill sprint these days. If that's your only classic win... Might as well include Milano-Torino then where he dusted Joquim Rodriguez on the final climb.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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16 Dec 2012 01:13

El Pistolero wrote:Too bad Contador dusts Evans in most aspects of stage racing which includes climbing, time-trials, recuperation/consistency, etc. ;)

Let's go back 5 years ago and Evans didn't do any of that. MTB is irrelevant as Contador started in road cycling.

Flèche Wallonne is just an uphill sprint these days. If that's your only classic win... Might as well include Milano-Torino then where he dusted Joquim Rodriguez on the final climb.


Contador is a great stage racer. Beyond that he's done nothing. Evans has. Lots. So as an 'Overall' rider he wins. Sorry.
Parker
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16 Dec 2012 01:19

Parker wrote:Contador is a great stage racer. Beyond that he's done nothing. Evans has. Lots. So as an 'Overall' rider he wins. Sorry.


Stage racing isn't one aspect, it combines different elements in cycling.

Evans is just a better one day rider and it's not like he has ever come close to winning a Monument.

Contador is definitely good enough to win FW some day. It's not much of a classic considering its length and the way the race is run. Considered a semi-classic by many actually...
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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16 Dec 2012 02:37

Parker wrote:It's clearly Evans.

Have you won a Grand Tour?

Evans - Yes
Contador - Yes

Have you ever won a classic?

Evans - Yes
Contador - No

Have you ever been World Champion in any form of the sport?

Evans - Yes
Contador - No

Have you done anything outside road racing?

Evans - Yes
Contador - No

It's clear cut. Contador does what he does and he does it well. But he's a stage racer and that's it. When it comes to 'all round' credentials he has nothing on Evans (or Wiggins).


Fantastic analysis, that can answer all questions:

Have you won a Grand Tour?

Ullrich: Yes
Bettini: No

Have you ever won a classic?

Ullrich - Yes (if we are going to count FW as a classic)
Bettini - Yes

Have you ever been World Champion in any form of the sport?

Ullrich - Yes
Bettini - Yes

Have you ever won an Olympic Gold?

Ullrich - Yes
Bettini - Yes

Ullrich > Bettini
Ferminal
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16 Dec 2012 03:49

Ah, classic El Pistolero...

El Pistolero wrote:He narrowly won on that TDF stage and Contador already did a hard Giro back then plus he crashed on the first stage.

Talk down Evans winning a stage against Contador

Contador is definitely good enough to win FW some day.

Then talk up Contador for a race he has not even won.
I was awarded 'Most Aggressive Rider of the Day', generally given to the most spectacular loser of the day.

― David Millar, Racing Through the Dark
User avatar Don't be late Pedro
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16 Dec 2012 07:16

Clearly Evans as he never has lost any wins "off the road". AC cannot make up this deficit. Plus, Evans has shown some great results in one-day-races (World Champion) and classic-like stages (as in this strade bianche Giro stage some years ago) which is something AC is just not capable of. BTW, Evans is (or was) able to perform on a very high level without any team support. I am not sure about this point, but I guess that's not AC's strong suit, too.
SiAp1984
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Location: Germany

16 Dec 2012 08:06

Scott SoCal wrote:Evans crushes AC on the stones, especially if it's raining.

Nobody cares about three week races anyways. :)


If the stones go uphill a bit, I think AC holds his own. Didn't he drop Boonen and others on the cobbles in the Eneco Tour this year?
User avatar UpTheRoad
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Posts: 649
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16 Dec 2012 08:10

So If I won 1 Vuelta, 1 FW, 1 WC and did something in cross or MTB in my whole career, it means that I am the best ever cyclist (or at least equal to the best ones) as there is no room for improvement?

Btw, Milano-Torino is probably harder than FW, FW is pretty much an uphill sprint (Contador and especially Anton failed on that day, I totally agree)

Edit: For the guys who mentioned about cobbles, I'm pretty sure that Evans never rode on a cobbled classic and Contador somehow rode more cobbles than him (Eneco)
burning
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16 Dec 2012 08:31

Cobbles are not relevant since they only faced each other on the cobbles once
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
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Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

16 Dec 2012 08:40

SiAp1984 wrote:Clearly Evans as he never has lost any wins "off the road". AC cannot make up this deficit.


Looks to me like he can since he's still won 4 gts more than Evans

Plus, Evans has shown some great results in one-day-races (World Champion) and classic-like stages (as in this strade bianche Giro stage some years ago) which is something AC is just not capable of.


Does Milano Torino ring a bell? I guess not.

BTW, Evans is (or was) able to perform on a very high level without any team support. I am not sure about this point, but I guess that's not AC's strong suit, too.


"But I guess that's not AC's strong suit, too..."

omg how can I ever win this discussion when you throw around such magnificent arguments :rolleyes:

One thing: tour 2009
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
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16 Dec 2012 08:53

Have you won a Grand Tour?

Evans - Yes
Contador - Yes


Conveniently removing the elephant from the room.

How it should read:
Have you ever won multiple Grand Tours?
Evans - No
Contador - Yes


So it's all in the wording and asking the right questions to get the desired answer.

Here's another relevant question:

Have you ever been national time trial champ?

Evans - No
Contador - Yes

If you factor in MTB results then the picture does change, somewhat.
However, I thought this was a head-to-head comparison, on a road racing forum.
Mellow Velo
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16 Dec 2012 09:11

LaFlorecita wrote:Looks to me like he can since he's still won 4 gts more than Evans



Does Milano Torino ring a bell? I guess not.



"But I guess that's not AC's strong suit, too..."

omg how can I ever win this discussion when you throw around such magnificent arguments :rolleyes:

One thing: tour 2009

You mean giro 11
"I know how to ride my bike" - Nibali

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9LBsWCNE9I

Vuelta 06 - the greatest gt in history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TQdI7csHs
Vino attacks everyone
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16 Dec 2012 09:11

The most important question, probably, is: who cares? But I guess if you look at it objectively there's no dispute, Contador is probably the best rider in the world right now so logically that also makes him better than Evans.
theyoungest
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16 Dec 2012 09:32

Vino attacks everyone wrote:You mean giro 11


That one too but tour 2009 was even more obvious because he didn't only get no support from his team, he had to beat his own team
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
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Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

16 Dec 2012 09:43

theyoungest wrote:The most important question, probably, is: who cares?

As for who cares, you could aim that at any thread, so that point is moot. But for the record, given the number of people that voted, clearly quite a few.

theyoungest wrote:But I guess if you look at it objectively there's no dispute, Contador is probably the best rider in the world right now so logically that also makes him better than Evans.

But isn't that the crux of the argument. He is the best GT rider but what other races is he the best at? Could be wrong but it seems to me that a lot of people equate best at GTs to best rider.
I was awarded 'Most Aggressive Rider of the Day', generally given to the most spectacular loser of the day.

― David Millar, Racing Through the Dark
User avatar Don't be late Pedro
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16 Dec 2012 09:49

Don't be late Pedro wrote:As for who cares, you could aim that at any thread, so that point is moot. But for the record, given the number of people that voted, clearly quite a few.


But isn't that the crux of the argument. He is the best GT rider but what other races is he the best at? Could be wrong but it seems to me that a lot of people equate best at GTs to best rider.


theyoungest said "Contador is probably the best rider in the world right now" so not best GT rider
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
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