Log in:  

Register

The Better Overall Rider: Evans or Contador

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Better overall rider

Cadel Evans
34
22%
Alberto Contador
120
78%
 
Total votes : 154

16 Dec 2012 09:56

LaFlorecita wrote:theyoungest said "Contador is probably the best rider in the world right now" so not best GT rider

Define 'best'.
I was awarded 'Most Aggressive Rider of the Day', generally given to the most spectacular loser of the day.

― David Millar, Racing Through the Dark
User avatar Don't be late Pedro
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,443
Joined: 13 Aug 2010 08:51

16 Dec 2012 09:58

LaFlorecita wrote:That one too but tour 2009 was even more obvious because he didn't only get no support from his team, he had to beat his own team


Astana 09 was around him 24/7, sure Lance was the boss but he was never isolated
"I know how to ride my bike" - Nibali

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9LBsWCNE9I

Vuelta 06 - the greatest gt in history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TQdI7csHs
Vino attacks everyone
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5,529
Joined: 05 May 2011 16:26

16 Dec 2012 10:10

Vino attacks everyone wrote:Astana 09 was around him 24/7, sure Lance was the boss but he was never isolated


I remember Boonen saying Alberto was all alone in the back of the peloton.
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
Senior Member
 
Posts: 21,257
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

16 Dec 2012 10:13

LaFlorecita wrote:I remember Boonen saying Alberto was all alone in the back of the peloton.


If he had a puncture and no one had come back to tow tim and as a result he would have lost the Tour — then we might have said the team didn't work for him. So he was entirely protected by Astana sitting at Lance's wheel most of the time.
User avatar airstream
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,283
Joined: 29 Mar 2011 18:32
Location: Minsk

16 Dec 2012 10:13

Don't be late Pedro wrote:Define 'best'.


Alberto is the best climber, best stage racer
Cav is the best sprinter
Best tter, Tony? Cance? Wiggo?
Boonen or Cance as the best cobbled classics rider, Phil for the hilly classics and Jrod for the uphill sprint

One of those is "the best". Who? I guess it's a matter of opinion, not fact
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
Senior Member
 
Posts: 21,257
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

16 Dec 2012 10:14

airstream wrote:If he had a puncture and no one had come back to tow tim and as a result he would have lost the Tour — then we might have said the team didn't work for him. So he was entirely protected by Astana sitting at Lance's wheel most of the time.


Yeah so Boonen was lying :rolleyes:
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
Senior Member
 
Posts: 21,257
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

16 Dec 2012 10:16

LaFlorecita wrote:Yeah so Boonen was lying :rolleyes:


Boonen has nothing to do with that. A rider rides in the pack where he wants. The team preferred Lance as a leader. Have you ever wondered why?
User avatar airstream
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,283
Joined: 29 Mar 2011 18:32
Location: Minsk

16 Dec 2012 10:19

airstream wrote:Boonen has nothing to do with that. A rider rides in the pack where he wants.


The problem was that Alberto didn't want to ride in the back of the peloton

The team preferred Lance as a leader. Have you ever wondered why?


Yes, and I came to the conclusion that it's because Lance is a manipulative *******
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
Senior Member
 
Posts: 21,257
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

16 Dec 2012 10:19

Have to agree with Airstream here. Noone can say that AC had less help in the 09 tour than for example giro 08
"I know how to ride my bike" - Nibali

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9LBsWCNE9I

Vuelta 06 - the greatest gt in history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TQdI7csHs
Vino attacks everyone
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5,529
Joined: 05 May 2011 16:26

16 Dec 2012 10:20

Don't be late Pedro wrote:As for who cares, you could aim that at any thread, so that point is moot. But for the record, given the number of people that voted, clearly quite a few.

I mean: what's the relevance? Fading star who at the twilight of his career had his dream result vs. best GT rider in the world at the apex of his career. It's a bit random. They're different types of rider, both of them happen to be good at GTs but Contador is clearly a cut above everyone else. Evans is also a reasonable one day racer but not to the extent that it lifts him above Contador... IMHO.

We could also have a Menchov vs. Contador thread, or a Basso vs. Contador thread, all as irrelevant as this one.
theyoungest
Senior Member
 
Posts: 12,239
Joined: 11 Jan 2010 14:47

16 Dec 2012 10:21

LaFlorecita wrote:The problem was that Alberto didn't want to ride in the back of the peloton


Hehe, believe if Bruyneel and Armstrong had wanted Contador not to win the Tour too much, he wouldn't have taken it. It could have been very ugly and grotesque surely, but after 2007 it wouldn't have surprised too many people. Yes, atmosphere inside of the team was not for him, but nothing more. In terms of a road work, he had an absolute support.
User avatar airstream
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,283
Joined: 29 Mar 2011 18:32
Location: Minsk

16 Dec 2012 10:22

Vino attacks everyone wrote:Have to agree with Airstream here. Noone can say that AC had less help in the 09 tour than for example giro 08


I wonder what your definition of "help" is.
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
Senior Member
 
Posts: 21,257
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

16 Dec 2012 10:26

airstream wrote:Hehe, believe if Bruyneel and Armstrong had wanted Contador not to win the Tour too much, he wouldn't have taken it. Yes, atmosphere inside of the team was not for him, but nothing more. In terms of a road work, he had an absolute support.


Of course. :rolleyes: Do you really believe that JB and LA tried to sabotage Alberto but at the same time they did support him. Come on you can't be that stupid. They did everything they could but it wasn't enough.
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
Senior Member
 
Posts: 21,257
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

16 Dec 2012 10:28

LaFlorecita wrote:I wonder what your definition of "help" is.


to have some team mates with him up the mountain all the way until he desides to attack
"I know how to ride my bike" - Nibali

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9LBsWCNE9I

Vuelta 06 - the greatest gt in history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TQdI7csHs
Vino attacks everyone
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5,529
Joined: 05 May 2011 16:26

16 Dec 2012 10:29

LaFlorecita wrote:Alberto is the best climber, best stage racer
Cav is the best sprinter
Best tter, Tony? Cance? Wiggo?
Boonen or Cance as the best cobbled classics rider, Phil for the hilly classics and Jrod for the uphill sprint

Pretty much agreed there.

LaFlorecita wrote:
One of those is "the best". Who? I guess it's a matter of opinion, not fact

I don't think you can have one best rider (At least not in this period of cycling). How can you compare the best of on discipline with another? Most people weight GTs above everything else because you generally need to have multiple strings to your bow. A fair enough argument but, and lets face it, very much skewed to those who can climb, hence one of my previous posts.

Sure you can say most complete but that is something difference IMO (You may argue it is just semantics).

Anyway, I digress...
I was awarded 'Most Aggressive Rider of the Day', generally given to the most spectacular loser of the day.

― David Millar, Racing Through the Dark
User avatar Don't be late Pedro
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,443
Joined: 13 Aug 2010 08:51

16 Dec 2012 10:33

theyoungest wrote:I mean: what's the relevance? Fading star who at the twilight of his career had his dream result vs. best GT rider in the world at the apex of his career. It's a bit random. They're different types of rider, both of them happen to be good at GTs but Contador is clearly a cut above everyone else. Evans is also a reasonable one day racer but not to the extent that it lifts him above Contador... IMHO.

Fair enough.

We could also have a Menchov vs. Contador thread, or a Basso vs. Contador thread, all as irrelevant as this one.

Let be honest. Most threads at the moment are just filling in the gap until racing starts up again.
I was awarded 'Most Aggressive Rider of the Day', generally given to the most spectacular loser of the day.

― David Millar, Racing Through the Dark
User avatar Don't be late Pedro
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,443
Joined: 13 Aug 2010 08:51

16 Dec 2012 10:33

Vino attacks everyone wrote:to have some team mates with him up the mountain all the way until he desides to attack


But did they help him? No, they were helping Lance. Sure it also helped Alberto but he had to do a lot of things on his own or with Paulinho.
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
Senior Member
 
Posts: 21,257
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

16 Dec 2012 10:36

LaFlorecita wrote:But did they help him? No, they were helping Lance. Sure it also helped Alberto but he had to do a lot of things on his own or with Paulinho.


yup, exactly
"I know how to ride my bike" - Nibali

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9LBsWCNE9I

Vuelta 06 - the greatest gt in history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TQdI7csHs
Vino attacks everyone
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5,529
Joined: 05 May 2011 16:26

16 Dec 2012 10:39

Vino attacks everyone wrote:yup, exactly


This year's Vuelta was a good example of Alberto's team helping him. Letting someone ride in your train while at the same time trying everything possible to make him lose [SIZE="6"]IS NOT[/SIZE] what helping is all about
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
Senior Member
 
Posts: 21,257
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

16 Dec 2012 10:41

LaFlorecita wrote:This year's Vuelta was a good example of Alberto's team helping him. Letting someone ride in your train while at the same time trying everything possible to make him lose [SIZE="6"]IS NOT[/SIZE] what helping is all about


Did he have to pull on the flats into the mountains? no
Did he have to pull in the mountains? no (excpet when he attacked ofc )

Did the team keep the pace up the mountians for him personally? probably not
Did it [SIZE="5"]HELP[/SIZE] him that they did all this? yes
"I know how to ride my bike" - Nibali

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9LBsWCNE9I

Vuelta 06 - the greatest gt in history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TQdI7csHs
Vino attacks everyone
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5,529
Joined: 05 May 2011 16:26

PreviousNext

Return to Professional road racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Amsterhammer, Arnout, Arredondo, Bing [Bot], Brullnux, davebqvst, Descender, drj12, dusty red roads, Eshnar, Fernandez, Inquitus, Jaunty Monty, jflemaire, Juan Pelota, KyoGrey, Pricey_sky, ptarmigan, Põhja Konn, StannisBaratheon, Suck_Out, togo95, TomLPC, W_walker and 141 guests

Back to top