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The Better Overall Rider: Evans or Contador

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Better overall rider

Cadel Evans
34
22%
Alberto Contador
120
78%
 
Total votes : 154

17 Dec 2012 18:47

Echoes wrote:Third attempt to express my opinion on this topic. This time, please, leave me alone, and stop deleting. :mad:

Evans is a full time professional racer, racing from February to October, just like any cycling rider since Nativity. This links him all cycling greats of the past. He's honouring "small" races with his presence. His consistency is remarkable for a rider of his era, if though there are more and more like him since about 2010 (Nibali, Gesink, Cancellara, Gilbert, A Schleck:p, etc.)

C***tador is a pretty damn joke, racing 50 days a year (60 if you include criteriums), finishing in July, a*se-licking the biggest race organisers (ASO, RCS) and then finishing the year, sunbathing on the beaches of Cancun.

CAS matters

Yeah, and that's a mere detail, of course. :rolleyes:


Enjoy your forthcoming vacation.

Evans climbed off his bike in August, this year.
The year before, he interrupted his round of opening supermarkets to swan around, finishing nowhere in a joke of a race in the US......in August.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycling/cadel-evans-off-the-pace-20110826-1jdg4.html

Milan-Turin 26th September.
Mellow Velo
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17 Dec 2012 19:20

The Hitch wrote:You know its against the rules to bring up doping here but you keep bringing up doping in the thread, knowing that even if your posts are deleted they will survive long enough to flame plenty of Contador fans.


Doping is part of this sport. Silencing the problem is pointless.

The Hitch wrote:And then you complain that the I used the perfectly harmless term - idiot.
Having no less just a moment earlier declared yourself "anti censorship".


I am anti-censorship and precisely I don't want the mods to delete your post otherwise nobody would know you've insulted me while I was posting in a perfectly serene mood.

Mellow Velo wrote:Enjoy your forthcoming vacation.


Won't have any. I'm not Contador, lol.
Mellow Velo wrote:Evans climbed off his bike in August, this year.


He's 35.

Mellow Velo wrote:The year before, he interrupted his round of opening supermarkets to swan around, finishing nowhere in a joke of a race in the US......in August.


He was 34 (and not 33 as I wrongly mentioned above).

However in 2004, he raced from Valencia (February) to Lombardy (October)
In 2005, from the Nats (January) to Germany (August)
In 2006, from Down Under (January) to Zurich (October)
In 2007, from Andalucia (February) to Lombardy (October)
In 2008, from Andalucia (February) to Emily (October)
In 2009, from Andalucia (February) to Lombardy (October)
In 2010, from Down Under (January) to the Worlds (September)

Right?
Echoes
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17 Dec 2012 19:29

Echoes wrote:Doping is part of this sport. Silencing the problem is pointless.





And you can go talk about it to your hearts content in the clinic, where you might learn that just because you like a rider doesnt mean they are clean.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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17 Dec 2012 20:08

Echoes wrote:
He's 35.
He was 34 (and not 33 as I wrongly mentioned above).


So, you have decided that age is a mitigating factor?
I guess we'll have to wait until Contador is 35 and see what else he wins in the 5 years, then.


Echoes wrote:

However in 2004, he raced from Valencia (February) to Lombardy (October)
In 2005, from the Nats (January) to Germany (August)
In 2006, from Down Under (January) to Zurich (October)
In 2007, from Andalucia (February) to Lombardy (October)
In 2008, from Andalucia (February) to Emily (October)
In 2009, from Andalucia (February) to Lombardy (October)
In 2010, from Down Under (January) to the Worlds (September)

Right?



An Aussie racing in Oz during the Summer? Does that even count?
Not in my book.

In 2008, Contador was not just riding, but winning stage races in March, a GT in May, then another GT in mid-September. Then had his first stage race win of the next season in Februrary, 2009.
Mellow Velo
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17 Dec 2012 20:55

Mellow Velo wrote:So, you have decided that age is a mitigating factor?
I guess we'll have to wait until Contador is 35 and see what else he wins in the 5 years, then.


Indeed, with Echoes logic we should compare the palmares of a 30 y Evans against a 30 y Contador.

Pretty clear what the answer is...
peloton
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17 Dec 2012 20:58

The Hitch wrote:And you can go talk about it to your hearts content in the clinic, where you might learn that just because you like a rider doesnt mean they are clean.


Caricature won't help you, son.


Mellow Velo
wrote:
So, you have decided that age is a mitigating factor?


Yes indeed, I guess even my cousin who is 1 year old can tell you that at age 35, you don't have the same recuperating skills as at age 26.

Mellow Velo wrote:An Aussie racing in Oz during the Summer? Does that even count?
Not in my book.


You're right. An Italian racing Lombardy does not count either. Or a Dutchie racing Amstel, a German racing Francfurt GP, etc.


Mellow Velo wrote:In 2008, Contador was not just riding, but winning stage races in March, a GT in May, then another GT in mid-September. Then had his first stage race win of the next season in Februrary, 2009.


Contador fans are really trained in the pilpul method. Debunking my arguments with one particular case, because they are incapable of any global vision. So that won't change the global consistency of my reasoning. Florecita showed you the Contador ridiculously light calendars. It's very easy to explain that he raced the Vuelta in 2008 because he was kept from Bore de France. And any time he would race Bore de France, be sure he would stop in July. If not, I would apologize.

I haven't calculated Evans racing days every year in his prime. But it must be around 90.

In 2009 Olivier Kaisen raced for around 110 days. That was twice as much as Contador that year. Who deserves more credit? :rolleyes:
Echoes
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17 Dec 2012 21:08

Echoes wrote:Caricature won't help you, son.




Yes indeed, I guess even my cousin who is 1 year old can tell you that at age 35, you don't have the same recuperating skills as at age 26.



You're right. An Italian racing Lombardy does not count either. Or a Dutchie racing Amstel, a German racing Francfurt GP, etc.




Contador fans are really trained in the pilpul method. Debunking my arguments with one particular case, because they are incapable of any global vision. So that won't change the global consistency of my reasoning. Florecita showed you the Contador ridiculously light calendars. It's very easy to explain that he raced the Vuelta in 2008 because he was kept from Bore de France. And any time he would race Bore de France, be sure he would stop in July. If not, I would apologize.

I haven't calculated Evans racing days every year in his prime. But it must be around 90.

In 2009 Olivier Kaisen raced for around 110 days. That was twice as much as Contador that year. Who deserves more credit? :rolleyes:

In 2008 Evans had 68 racing days

2011: 57
2012: 52
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
User avatar Netserk
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17 Dec 2012 21:16

Netserk wrote:In 2008 Evans had 68 racing days

2011: 57
2012: 52


Hahahaha 2008 same as Alberto. in 2011 Alberto had more. Hahaha.
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
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17 Dec 2012 21:16

Echoes wrote:
Contador fans are really trained in the pilpul method. Debunking my arguments with one particular case, because they are incapable of any global vision.


Except I'm not a Contador fan. I just worship pro racing, not individual cyclists.
Although, I don't claim to be a global visionary.:o

Echoes wrote:I haven't calculated Evans racing days every year in his prime. But it must be around 90.



Netserk wrote:In 2008 Evans had 68 racing days

2011: 57
2012: 52


Oooh err, the numbers don't lie.
Just a tad out with that guess.
Less than Bertie in his last full season.
So I guess it's back to the drawing board.
Mellow Velo
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17 Dec 2012 21:25

Pilpul again.


2009 figures, please?

Could you bring me that for tomorrow? I'm off now.
Echoes
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17 Dec 2012 21:34

Quality over quantity obviously.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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17 Dec 2012 21:42

Evans
2009- 87
2008- 68
2007- 85

Of course, more race days doesn't necessarily mean one rider is better than another. Quality over quantity like El P said. Nothing wrong with racing around 50-60 days as long as the rider gets the results.
Be the Goat

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User avatar Afrank
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17 Dec 2012 21:52

Netserk wrote:In 2008 Evans had 68 racing days

2011: 57
2012: 52


There goes that failed argument. That Evans, what a slacker!;)
"It's a little bit scarey when Contador attacks." Tommie Voeckler
User avatar Angliru
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17 Dec 2012 22:05

Afrank wrote:Evans
2009- 87

Which resulted in his abject failure at that year's Tour and his subsequent adoption of a "lighter" programme.
Sums up the whole argument, really.
Mellow Velo
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18 Dec 2012 03:14

Mellow Velo wrote:Which resulted in his abject failure at that year's Tour and his subsequent adoption of a "lighter" programme.
Sums up the whole argument, really.

Very true. No coincidence that Evans improves at the same time as he eases up his racing schedule.
How to ride like a Tour champion!

proof noun (SHOWING TRUTH)

B2 [C or U] a fact or piece of information that shows that something exists or is true

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...ritish/proof_1


evidence noun [U] uk /ˈev.ɪ.dəns/ us

B2 one or more reasons for believing that something is or is not true

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...itish/evidence
User avatar 42x16ss
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18 Dec 2012 03:21

I'm amazed that this is even debatable. How have we gotten to 22 pages? Contador isn't that hard to spell is it?

Sure, Evans is an excellent all-round racer with a decent palmares who will be remembered and compared to riders like Vino, Valverde, Sastre or Nibali.

Contador however, will be compared to Coppi, Anquetil, Hinault, Indurain and LeMond.

One is very, very good. The other is an all time great.
How to ride like a Tour champion!

proof noun (SHOWING TRUTH)

B2 [C or U] a fact or piece of information that shows that something exists or is true

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...ritish/proof_1


evidence noun [U] uk /ˈev.ɪ.dəns/ us

B2 one or more reasons for believing that something is or is not true

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...itish/evidence
User avatar 42x16ss
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18 Dec 2012 06:56

Afrank wrote:Evans
2009- 87
2008- 68
2007- 85

Of course, more race days doesn't necessarily mean one rider is better than another. Quality over quantity like El P said. Nothing wrong with racing around 50-60 days as long as the rider gets the results.



Thank you, much obliged.

And you might also go on with the other seasons as well: 2006, 2010, it would be all the same. Full prime Evans was a true pro. When past his prime, he's eased up calendar and no longer the same rider.

And then you can go on with the other riders: Nibali, Gilbert, Boonen, Rodriguez, Cancellara, ...

That's the proof that there's a BIG BIG BIG problem with that Contador guy.
He's a disgrace. A lazy bourgeois spoiled brat with delusions of grandeur
.


Take Chavanel for instance. That guy had this year a very long season on the road. More than 80 days, I think. And last week, in December, he still raced a cyclocross in Pontchâteau. That is what I call a champion. Not the other diva.
Echoes
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18 Dec 2012 11:16

Mellow Velo wrote:Enjoy your forthcoming vacation.

Evans climbed off his bike in August, this year.
The year before, he interrupted his round of opening supermarkets to swan around, finishing nowhere in a joke of a race in the US......in August.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycling/cadel-evans-off-the-pace-20110826-1jdg4.html

Milan-Turin 26th September.


He was going to ride the World's and the two US races but sickness put an end to that and he just got worse after the Tour. He usually likes to ride Lombardy as well. So there is another ten days or so he would have ridden. Lack of motivation after his disappointment in the Tour wouldn't have helped although the World's course usually would have been a good one for him.
movingtarget
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18 Dec 2012 11:29

42x16ss wrote:I'm amazed that this is even debatable. How have we gotten to 22 pages? Contador isn't that hard to spell is it?

Sure, Evans is an excellent all-round racer with a decent palmares who will be remembered and compared to riders like Vino, Valverde, Sastre or Nibali.

Contador however, will be compared to Coppi, Anquetil, Hinault, Indurain and LeMond.

One is very, very good. The other is an all time great.


Contador has a way to go to reach the level of the riders you mentioned and he isn't an all time great yet. At least with the first three names on the list. Evans palmares is better than Nibali's and Sastre's and Vino's. Close to Valverde and Valverde has a much better classics record but I think Evans GT record is better than Valverde's.
movingtarget
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18 Dec 2012 11:45

movingtarget wrote:Contador has a way to go to reach the level of the riders...

plus additional purification by means of calx & sandpaper
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