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Who will better the other Contador vs Schleck in 2013!

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Schleck vs Contador in 2013

Poll ended at 25 Dec 2012 01:35

Alberto Contador
71
77%
Andy Schleck
13
14%
Other, for those who never vote but like to click buttons.
8
9%
 
Total votes : 92

27 Dec 2012 11:46

LaFlorecita wrote:And Alberto was at his best in 2010?


He was at his best possible form, how much better could he have been than what we saw on the Tourmalet? He surely had to have some form to keep up with Schleck's huge accellerations.

If Contador has his 2010 form next year Schleck has a better chance of winning imo, he's got a great team too. The TTT might even put Schleck in yellow after the first real mountain stage.

Still I'd rather not make any conclusions about this, Tirreno will be a good indicator.
User avatar Pentacycle
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27 Dec 2012 12:16

Pentacycle wrote:He was at his best possible form, how much better could he have been than what we saw on the Tourmalet? He surely had to have some form to keep up with Schleck's huge accellerations.


I'm sorry but I rather trust Alberto's opinion than yours.

If Contador has his 2010 form next year Schleck has a better chance of winning imo, he's got a great team too. The TTT might even put Schleck in yellow after the first real mountain stage.


What about Alberto's team? Kreuziger, Roche, Rogers are great additions to the team and for the TTT Saxo could have Kreuziger, Rogers, Morkov, Paulinho and Alberto. I can see Saxo beating Radioshack in the TT especially because Shack will have to drag Andy with them while Alberto is second best and maybe even the best on his team.
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
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27 Dec 2012 12:23

The main problem is some people look into Contador as supreme being and others as guys who are doomed to be weaker. In order to underline this, the 2009 Tour and the 2011 Giro are memorized numerous times. Fans are eager to represent these 2 GT's like a natural objective relation of forces and any other results — like plaguy contigency, like ridiculous preposterousness which gave opponents chances. However the 2009 Tour is not the rule. It is just an unitary example. And that relation of forces is impossible to copy, reconstruct or replay. It was and it ended. Things never be the same again in details at least. So, if Contador loses or the fact that he can lose, it is not out of the system, even if it enrages you. It is a striking delusion. GT's are not monopolized. Deal with it and love cycling otherwise you will have to choke-bore within a year or a bit later.
User avatar airstream
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27 Dec 2012 12:34

airstream wrote:The main problem is some people look into Contador as supreme being and others as guys who are doomed to be weaker. In order to underline this, the 2009 Tour and the 2011 Giro are memorized numerous times. Fans are eager to represent these 2 GT's like a natural objective relation of forces and any other results — like plaguy contigency, like ridiculous preposterousness which gave opponents chances. However the 2009 Tour is not the rule. It is just an unitary example. And that relation of forces is impossible to copy, reconstruct or replay. It was and it ended. Things never be the same again in details at least. So, if Contador loses or the fact that he can lose, it is not out of the system, even if it enrages you. It is a striking delusion. GT's are not monopolized. Deal with it and love cycling otherwise you will have to choke-bore within a year or a bit later.


I have no idea what you just said
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
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27 Dec 2012 12:41

LaFlorecita wrote:I have no idea what you just said


However I am convinced other guys understand me. :)
User avatar airstream
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27 Dec 2012 13:09

LaFlorecita wrote:I have no idea what you just said
Translation: Contador is not invincible, and you fanboys/girs are dilusional. 100% agree there. :)
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27 Dec 2012 13:22

Pentacycle wrote:He was at his best possible form, how much better could he have been than what we saw on the Tourmalet? He surely had to have some form to keep up with Schleck's huge accellerations.

If Contador has his 2010 form next year Schleck has a better chance of winning imo, he's got a great team too. The TTT might even put Schleck in yellow after the first real mountain stage.

Still I'd rather not make any conclusions about this, Tirreno will be a good indicator.


I think Tirreno will be too early in the season to be a good indicator and Andy is usually there for training if 2011 was anything to go by. Some riders like Nibali and Evans, Sagan will be trying and others will be sitting back.
movingtarget
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27 Dec 2012 13:57

can't vote don't no why

but it would be great when Andy had a better year in 2013 than Albert

so i "vote" Andy Schleck, why not :)
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User avatar Capablanca and me
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27 Dec 2012 15:17

could anyone rewrite my post properly and send me by PM? Apparently I don't understand main syntactical things. I'd be very grateful
User avatar airstream
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27 Dec 2012 15:29

airstream wrote:could anyone rewrite my post properly and send me by PM? Apparently I don't understand main syntactical things. I'd be very grateful


No problem

The main problem is that many fans believe that that Contador is a stronger rider than his opponents. They often cite the 2009 tour and 2011 Giro as proof of this, and this is annoying. The 2009 Tour is not the rule. It was 1 race and things do not remain the same. The 2009 Tour was almost 4 years ago, it took place and it finished. Times change So if Contador loses it will be because he is no longer as good and not because of any excuse his fans make up. It is delusional to think that Contador or any rider will dominate cycling for ever. And if you dont learn to accept this then you will be in for an uncomfortable surprise. If not in 2013 then a few years down the line


And i actually agree. Things change. Time is the great equalizer. Even great Kings fall eventually.

And the Contador era could be at an end. Maybe he wont be able to stay at that level as he goes into his 30's. The safe bet is though that in 2013 at least he should still be significantly better than the Nibalis and VDB's of this world, and have just enough to beat Schleck and Froome.

But who knows, maybe Froome and Schleck will truimph next season afterall.
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The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


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27 Dec 2012 15:30

cineteq wrote:Translation: Contador is not invincible, and you fanboys/girs are dilusional. 100% agree there. :)



Of course he isn't invincible; this is cycling and anything can happen. His powers may be on the wane, he could get ill, be injured, get stuck behind a crash and have Andy's team power on the front. Get left behind in crosswinds, puncture at the wrong time...so many possibilities....

It is that finishing 1st in 7 of the last 8 GTs he's ridden that feeds the illusion or delusion if you'd prefer :) Oh and being very competitive in any other race he chooses to ride :D

But the question is who will have a better season in 2013 Contador or Schleck.

Until Andy shows some type of form that he hasn't shown since July '11 it's kinda hard not to vote for Contador, at least for me....
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~~~~
Alberto Contador: "And yes, it is true that for me it's the same to finish second or 10th."

Vincezo Nibali joins Anquetil, Gimondi, Merckx, Hinault and Contador as only the 6th winner of all 3 Grand Tours! Bravo Lo Squalo!
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27 Dec 2012 17:38

The Hitch wrote:No problem


The main problem is that many fans believe that that Contador is a stronger rider than his opponents. They often cite the 2009 tour and 2011 Giro as proof of this, and this is annoying. The 2009 Tour is not the rule. It was 1 race and things do not remain the same. The 2009 Tour was almost 4 years ago, it took place and it finished. Times change So if Contador loses it will be because he is no longer as good and not because of any excuse his fans make up. It is delusional to think that Contador or any rider will dominate cycling for ever. And if you dont learn to accept this then you will be in for an uncomfortable surprise. If not in 2013 then a few years down the line


Thanks hitch :)
The main problem is that many fans believe that that Contador is a stronger rider than his opponents.


Indeed I believe he is. I'm sorry you find that a problem.
They often cite the 2009 tour and 2011 Giro as proof of this, and this is annoying.


I'm sorry
The 2009 Tour is not the rule. It was 1 race and things do not remain the same. The 2009 Tour was almost 4 years ago, it took place and it finished.


The reason why I use 2009 Tour (and 2011 Giro, which took place "just" two years ago) is because it shows what Alberto can do when he's at his best. And yes I believe he wasn't at his best in many if not all of the other GTs
Times change.


I agree.
So if Contador loses it will be because he is no longer as good and not because of any excuse his fans make up.


Maybe, maybe not. And we don't "make up" excuses. If Alberto loses and he didn't crash, didn't lose a lot of time on any of the flat stages, didn't get ill, didn't get any injuries, then I'll admit that yes, maybe he's started to suck. But I have yet to see any evidence that this will be the case.
It is delusional to think that Contador or any rider will dominate cycling for ever.


Nobody has ever said that.
And if you dont learn to accept this then you will be in for an uncomfortable surprise.


I'm wondering what this uncomfortable surprise will be... You mean that Alberto will fail one day? Oh that might be uncomfortable but it won't be a surprise.
If not in 2013 then a few years down the line


2016 I believe. So 3 years left to win :)
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
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27 Dec 2012 20:44

LaFlorecita wrote:And Alberto was at his best in 2010?


Does it matter? He still won it, because even when Andy is equal to Contador in the mountains, Contador is still the better ITT rider and the rider with the better racing instincts. For Andy to win he has to beat Contador in the mountains by some margin or hugely improve his ITT. I don't see either of those happening. But with luck (like crashes and the like), anything is impossible.
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27 Dec 2012 21:02

LaFlorecita wrote:Thanks hitch :)


Indeed I believe he is. I'm sorry you find that a problem.


I'm sorry


The reason why I use 2009 Tour (and 2011 Giro, which took place "just" two years ago) is because it shows what Alberto can do when he's at his best. And yes I believe he wasn't at his best in many if not all of the other GTs


I agree.


Maybe, maybe not. And we don't "make up" excuses. If Alberto loses and he didn't crash, didn't lose a lot of time on any of the flat stages, didn't get ill, didn't get any injuries, then I'll admit that yes, maybe he's started to suck. But I have yet to see any evidence that this will be the case.


Nobody has ever said that.


I'm wondering what this uncomfortable surprise will be... You mean that Alberto will fail one day? Oh that might be uncomfortable but it won't be a surprise.


2016 I believe. So 3 years left to win :)


What my learned friend Miss La Florecita said... :D:D

Airstream, over the last 30 years+ of watching bike racing I've seen champions come and go, pretenders to the crowns who have always hyped their abilities but come up short on the roads.

Berto falls into the same category as the Hinaults, Kelly's, Pantanis and Lemonds of this world, genuises on a bike, riders who just didn't win but found ways to win when the odds were against them, Fuente De is the prime example of that.

Andy doesn't come into that category, I don't think he ever will, he doesn't have the where with all to succeed on that level.

You fail to recognise Airstream, that some of us having been watching this sport for a long long time, we recognise patterns, we recognise real riders when we see them and in turn know when a rider is failing to live up to his god given talent!
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User avatar Siriuscat
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27 Dec 2012 21:24

Siriuscat wrote:Airstream, over the last 30 years+ of watching bike racing I've seen champions come and go, pretenders to the crowns who have always hyped their abilities but come up short on the roads.

You know surely I don't have a 30 year fan experience but I was not born yesterday too. I can distinguish intention to take the things how they are and attempts to make other riders short on the road that you do.

Berto falls into the same category as the Hinaults, Kelly's, Pantanis and Lemonds of this world, genuises on a bike, riders who just didn't win but found ways to win when the odds were against them, Fuente De is the prime example of that.

It is your vision. Admiring and enthusiastic. OK. But I don't understand how it is projected for 2013. Grandeur or genius is something abstract, ephemeral and subjective in many ways. It doesn't give wins by itself. Genius is beaten by another genius and there is no biggest genius. It is a limitless debate.
Andy doesn't come into that category, I don't think he ever will, he doesn't have the where with all to succeed on that level.

No problem. It is not my dream and all the more so it is not his wish. I follow the sport not to be proud of riders and fanatically defend them.

You fail to recognise Airstream, that some of us having been watching this sport for a long long time, we recognise patterns, we recognise real riders when we see them and in turn know when a rider is failing to live up to his god given talent!

I'm saying about 2013, you are saying about to relationship to Contador which may be very different.


As to one's best in a GT, I don't know what it means because it always entails a question 'was other at his best?' And it is a cul-de-sac reasoning as situation changes too often to operate with a notorious 'one's best' on a regular basis. Say, I have difficulties to call in which GT Nibali was at his best, but it obviously wasn't the 2011 Giro.
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27 Dec 2012 22:08

Siriuscat wrote:Berto falls into the same category as the Hinaults, Kelly's, Pantanis and Lemonds of this world, genuises on a bike, riders who just didn't win but found ways to win when the odds were against them, Fuente De is the prime example of that.

I agree.
De Fuente is bona fide signature of his career.
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27 Dec 2012 22:27

Carols wrote:But the question is who will have a better season in 2013 Contador or Schleck.
I'd assume this is a rhetorical question. ;)
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27 Dec 2012 22:37

cineteq wrote:I'd assume this is a rhetorical question. ;)


As a fan of both, I'm looking forward with interest to see how Andy's (seemingly) new appetite for early season racing goes. I've no doubt he will suck early but all in it can't be a bad thing:) And maybe, just maybe, appease some on here:rolleyes:
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