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2013 Santos Tour Down Under: 20th Jan - 27th Jan

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

14 Jan 2013 20:39

I don't really understand the point of this discussion. Degenbolb has never been a pure sprinter, he was 19th in Paris Roubaix on his first attempt - and I think he does have the ability to fight for the win one day. We can judge afterwards who is quicker, Boonen or him.

His sprint in the E3 wasn't impressive, that's for sure, and he was very angry about himself afterwards. And of course, he did peak for less important stage races, what else are you supposed to do when you are on a pro conti team and need victories to be invited to world tour races?!
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14 Jan 2013 20:42

search wrote:I don't really understand the point of this discussion. Degenbolb has never been a pure sprinter, he was 19th in Paris Roubaix on his first attempt - and I think he does have the ability to fight for the win one day. We can judge afterwards who is quicker, Boonen or him.

His sprint in the E3 wasn't impressive, that's for sure, and he was very angry about himself afterwards. And of course, he did peak for less important stage races, what else are you supposed to do when you are on a pro conti team and need victories to be invited to world tour races?!


Actually his team got a ****load of WT wildcards at the start of the season, but that's besides the matter. It even surprised me they wanted to be in the WT considering everyone invites them anyway.

And of course he's not a pure sprinter, hence his resemblance to Boonen. :p

There's an age difference of 9 years by the way, my list only ranked sprinters based on this year. We'll never be able to judge who was quicker in their prime.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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14 Jan 2013 21:24

El Pistolero wrote:Actually his team got a ****load of WT wildcards at the start of the season, but that's besides the matter. It even surprised me they wanted to be in the WT considering everyone invites them anyway.

And of course he's not a pure sprinter, hence his resemblance to Boonen. :p

There's an age difference of 9 years by the way, my list only ranked sprinters based on this year. We'll never be able to judge who was quicker in their prime.


He was good in MSR, he could have sprinted for the win if Nibali hadn't attacked. He is by far the best talent besides Sagan, and probably better suited to cobbles too. He crashed in the Ronde, and it still bothered him in P-R. Next year he can go head to head with Boonen and Sagan, hopefully all at 100% and without crashes.

Is one of them even riding Down Under?
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14 Jan 2013 21:33

El Pistolero wrote:E3 Harelbeke has really a very limited effect of cobbles, just the cobbled hills. And Degenkolb is a sprinter that can climb those hills as we've seen already, so that's not a good excuse.


I said something about degenkolb not being able to climb cobbles and hills?:confused:




Degenkolb is the only one winning races with ****ty fields, not Boonen. So I don't understand your logic there. ;)



I said something about boonen winning against ****ty fields?:confused:





Do you really think Degenkolb doesn't want to be good for the classics? I'm sure he rather peaks for the Tour de Picardie according to you, but that's another matter. :




I said that degenkolb doesn't want to peak for classics and that he peaked for the tour of picardie ?:confused:


Sprinting speed isn't even affected all that much by form. Your freshness at the finish of a rather hilly race is however affected by form. All the top sprinters win races in March and April.



Doesn't mean they are on form. I remember you tried this crap mid season last year when you declared that cavs season aim was msr and that he peaked for it and you laughing at how pathetic he was that even on peak he was so crap. (of course now that he's on a Belgian team and carnal of boonen your his biggest fan).

None of the sprinters peak for the classics on anywhere near the same level that boonen does.

Therefore it is wrong to.draw conclusions when a 100% boonen who has been training on the course for half his.life in front of his home fans with everything the team has thrown at him, comes up against sprinters at 80% who have other targets in their sights.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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14 Jan 2013 21:35

El Pistolero wrote:As for Demare, he's too young for me to pass any judgement on already. Haven't seen enough of him yet. He didn't do well in his first GT for example.


He did very well this year and got quite a few wins 6. Also he got a top 4 in a Giro stage and 7th, 8th and 9th are not that bad. Cav in his first GT only got 9th and 10th- though it was the TDF.

In Vattenfall Demare beat Greipel and Boonen. Greipel got 3 more wins after that so evidently he still had form.
I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong

The Grand Boucle wasn't just Europe's for the taking.

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14 Jan 2013 21:38

Anyone know who's leading Garmin in the 'medium mountains' ?
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14 Jan 2013 21:41

Afrank wrote:Bos has also been around longer than Guardini.

Like I said, no he hasn't. Yes he's older, but he's only been a road racer for 4 years, of which 3 years in a pro team.
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14 Jan 2013 21:46

theyoungest wrote:Like I said, no he hasn't. Yes he's older, but he's only been a road racer for 4 years, of which 3 years in a pro team.


Yeah Bos still has some stamina issues because of his transition to the road from track cycling. He would've been a better sprinter had he started in road cycling. But he would've never beaten Cav consistently because the latter made the transition seemingly easily.

How many GTs has he finished/ridden?
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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14 Jan 2013 21:50

Telmisartan new wrote:Anyone know who's leading Garmin in the 'medium mountains' ?


In the TDU, Haas and Dennis I suppose maybe Morton can show something to.
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14 Jan 2013 21:53

The Hitch wrote:
Doesn't mean they are on form. I remember you tried this crap mid season last year when you declared that cavs season aim was msr and that he peaked for it and you laughing at how pathetic he was that even on peak he was so crap. (of course now that he's on a Belgian team and carnal of boonen your his biggest fan).

None of the sprinters peak for the classics on anywhere near the same level that boonen does.

Therefore it is wrong to.draw conclusions when a 100% boonen who has been training on the course for half his.life in front of his home fans with everything the team has thrown at him, comes up against sprinters at 80% who have other targets in their sights.


Cav always wants to have his first peak of the season for Milan-San Remo and then hold it till Gent-Wevelgem. His performance in both races was pathetic(I fail to see why you think my opinion on that is changed somehow). Your denial about any sprinter wanting to have his first peak for these kind of races is hilarious though.

What other targets are we speaking of here? Degenkolb won 5 Vuelta stages and not a single good sprinter had his eyes set on that one. Cavendish, Greipel, Kittel, Sagan, Boonen, Matthew Goss, Theo Bos, Freire, etc all weren't there. Good luck drawing conclusions from that one. So he's faster than Ben Swift, amazing. His other victories are barely worth mentioning. His fourth place at the WC and his subsequent performance at Paris-Tours was still his best performance of the season.

Gent-Wevelgem at least had Cavendish, Greipel, Kittel, Sagan, Boonen, Degenkolb, Freire, Goss, EBH, etc

Looks like the sprinters think Gent-Wevelgem is a more important goal than the Vuelta... And that you're wrong. How many sprinters besides Cavendish and Greipel won a Tour de France stage this year anyway? Looks to me that they shouldn't be so picky about what race they're peaking for. ;)
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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14 Jan 2013 22:05

El Pistolero wrote:Yeah Bos still has some stamina issues because of his transition to the road from track cycling. He would've been a better sprinter had he started in road cycling. But he would've never beaten Cav consistently because the latter made the transition seemingly easily.

How many GTs has he finished/ridden?

Cav wasn't a sprinter on the track, he was an endurance rider. Theo Bos is the only real track sprinter to make the transition. Imagine Chris Hoy doing the same.

Bos has done two GTs, both of them he almost finished. But in the first one he crashed into a moto in the final TT and in the second one he rode two weeks with a broken vertebra.
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14 Jan 2013 22:10

theyoungest wrote:Cav wasn't a sprinter on the track, he was an endurance rider. Theo Bos is the only real track sprinter to make the transition. Imagine Chris Hoy doing the same.

Bos has done two GTs, both of them he almost finished. But in the first one he crashed into a moto in the final TT and in the second one he rode two weeks with a broken vertebra.


I see, well that explains it then.

Yeah, I know about his broken vertebra. I actually thought he would do well in the Giro, but with back problems that serious that ain't going to happen. Happened in one of the stages in Denmark if I remember correctly.

He should really try to finish a GT this year though, in good health(no point riding around with a serious injury). We've seen what kind of an effect completing your first GT can have on someone.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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14 Jan 2013 22:15

El Pistolero wrote:
Looks like the sprinters think Gent-Wevelgem is a more important goal than the Vuelta... And that you're wrong. How many sprinters besides Cavendish and Greipel won a Tour de France stage this year anyway? Looks to me that they shouldn't be so picky about what race they're peaking for. ;)


Vuelta '12 involved only a handful of flat stages. Not a lot of opportunities for "true" bunch sprinters that late in the season. We could see a similar "small" sprinter field in the Giro this year.
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14 Jan 2013 22:16

Dazed and Confused wrote:Vuelta '12 involved only a handful of flat stages. Not a lot of opportunities for "true" bunch sprinters that late in the season. We could see a similar "small" sprinter field in the Giro this year.


That's part of the reason I know, but there were still 6 opportunities.

Quite a few good sprinters have already said they want to do the Giro this year, so sprinters clearly rate the Giro higher than the Vuelta.

Ps: perhaps a kind mod should move all these posts into a new thread called "top ten sprinters". :o
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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14 Jan 2013 23:50

theyoungest wrote:Like I said, no he hasn't. Yes he's older, but he's only been a road racer for 4 years, of which 3 years in a pro team.


He's been around in the PRT longer, Plus Guardini being younger when he started road means he'll probably have more opportunities to win as wide a variety of races as Bos has so far.
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14 Jan 2013 23:55

Who will likely be in Uni-SA team then?

Neil VDP I guess.
Maybe Calvin Watson.
Giacoppo?
Bernie Sultz?
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14 Jan 2013 23:57

swuzzlebubble wrote:Who will likely be in Uni-SA team then?


Zachary Dempster
Anthony Giacoppo
Damien Howson
Jordan Kerby
Adam Phelan
Bernard Sulberger
Calvin Watson

Source
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15 Jan 2013 01:04

Can't complain too much about it though sucks for VDP and WW though. Don't have the young and AIS grad trump card though.
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15 Jan 2013 01:09

Tuarts wrote:Can't complain too much about it though sucks for VDP and WW though. Don't have the young and AIS grad trump card though.
Or the annual 'help him get a WT contract' card
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15 Jan 2013 01:57

manolo wrote:I haven't got quite through all the replies. Do people think only Stage 2 and Stage 5 are the only ones that might not end in a mass sprint? Are any of the stages, like the Old Willung one, exactly like last years'?


Tanunda and Stirling could end up with some of the better sprinters shelled but there will be a sprint, even if it is behind an escape.
I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong

The Grand Boucle wasn't just Europe's for the taking.

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D&C "He will soon..."
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