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Which 2013 GT has the best route?

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Rank the three GTs

1st Giro, 2nd Tour, 3rd Vuelta
36
40%
1st Giro, 2nd Vuelta, 3rd Tour
29
32%
1st Tour, 2nd Giro, 3rd Vuelta
7
8%
1st Tour, 2nd Vuelta, 3rd Giro
8
9%
1st Vuelta, 2nd Giro, 3rd Tour
8
9%
1st Vuelta, 2nd Tour, 3rd Giro
2
2%
 
Total votes : 90

15 Jan 2013 23:24

staubsauger wrote:Well that second stage (Batista - Ajacco) looks like Europcar against the rest of the peloton. Pretty sure Voeckler or anyone else of them will try to do something there. And if it's just that Tommy could secure some first points for the polka dot jersey during that stage.


That second stage could be good since there shouldnt be any major gc gaps going into it so there wont be so many obvious breakaway candidates that can take 15 minutes as the peloton soft pedals.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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15 Jan 2013 23:57

Giro route looks good, even the Tour route looks much better then last year.

Vuelta yet again doing MTF overkill an its becoming boring already.
User avatar Pricey_sky
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16 Jan 2013 11:38

Descender wrote:
These are all mighty good mountain stages, and they offer variety, unlike the monotonous MTF after MTF of Giro and Vuelta.


The stage to Bagneres-de-Bigorre isn't exactly mighty good. A 30 km long og not to diffcult descent to the finish line, and it will certainly end with bunch sprint of 15-20 men.

In addition, Preudhomme's view of innovation and adding new elements to the Tour is doing the same climb twice instead of finding new and more unknown climbs like they have done in the Giro and the Vuelta.

The Tour also have a notable lack of hilly stages. The stages are either dead flat or mountainous. The classic like stages you find in the Giro is almost never used in the Tour.
OlavEH
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16 Jan 2013 11:56

I vote "none of the above".

The Tour loses points for garbage Corsica stages, a 130km queen stage, double Alpe d'Huez and too many flat stages, but gains some back for not including the Tourmalet.

The Vuelta loses points for MTF overload, for Peyresourde, for too many repeats, for an anæmic Anglirú stage, but gains some back for not having as many flat stages.

The Giro loses points for Galibier, for doing Stelvio two years running, for high mountain stages so short Unipublic would say they needed to be longer, for blatantly pandering when they admitted to trying to lure Wiggins and trying to make the Giro easier so people could try for the Giro-Tour double, and for a hideous use of the second weekend, but gains some back for Tre Cime, and for including a long time trial even if it's badly placed.

All three lose points for having a TTT.

The Giro and Vuelta gain some points for using some new summits and actually showing some of that creativity that Prudhomme so obviously lacks (especially the Vuelta. It must be hard finding a way to make such a stupefyingly flat stage in Asturias), but lose those same points for wasting our time in France by using the same overused climbs the Tour always uses.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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16 Jan 2013 12:04

OlavEH wrote:The stage to Bagneres-de-Bigorre isn't exactly mighty good. A 30 km long og not to diffcult descent to the finish line, and it will certainly end with bunch sprint of 15-20 men.


The other mountain stages aren't great either. Pailheres is a great climb, IMO, and I don't care that it's "overused," but they could use it in better ways than the semi-annual Pailheres - Ax-3 borefest.

The Grand Bornand stage ...there's not much to look forward to, as far as GC action is concerned. It's preceded and followed by a stage with a MTF and the stage itself has too much false flat after the Madeleine descent, which doesn't favor breakaways with riders that could shake up GC.
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18-Valve. (pithy)
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16 Jan 2013 12:12

18-Valve. (pithy) wrote:The other mountain stages aren't great either. Pailheres is a great climb, IMO, and I don't care that it's "overused," but they could use it in better ways than the semi-annual Pailheres - Ax-3 borefest.

The Grand Bornand stage ...there's not much to look forward to, as far as GC action is concerned. It's preceded and followed by a stage with a MTF and the stage itself has too much false flat after the Madeleine descent, which doesn't favor breakaways with riders that could shake up GC.


Pailheres isn't necessarily overused, and I agree that it's a great climb. But are there any other way of using it except doing either Ax3 or Plateau de Beille afterwards?
OlavEH
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16 Jan 2013 12:14

Libertine Seguros wrote:
The Vuelta loses points for MTF overload, for Peyresourde, for too many repeats, for an anæmic Anglirú stage, but gains some back for not having as many flat stages.



What is so wrong with the Peuresourde/Peyragudes stage?
OlavEH
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16 Jan 2013 12:16

OlavEH wrote:Pailheres isn't necessarily overused, and I agree that it's a great climb. But are there any other way of using it except doing either Ax3 or Plateau de Beille afterwards?

Downhill finish ;)
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16 Jan 2013 12:17

OlavEH wrote:What is so wrong with the Peuresourde/Peyragudes stage?

We saw the exact same finish in the Tour last year!
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User avatar Netserk
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16 Jan 2013 12:42

Giro-Vuelta-Tour

The Giro has everything, long TT, hilly stages, couple of sprint stages and some hard mountain stages. Looks promising.

Vuelta with a MTF overload again. It makes sense after last year and I really enjoyed all the fireworks so hopefully something like that again this year.

The Tour has a slightly better route than last year but still doesn't make much sense. Too many sprint stages and lack of hard, hilly stages. And the decisive mountain stages are not that good designed, especially the Grand Bornand and Semnoz stages.
Leonardus
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16 Jan 2013 12:57

OlavEH wrote:What is so wrong with the Peuresourde/Peyragudes stage?


When the Giro or the Vuelta go into France I hope for something other than the same, stale, tired old climbs we see every single year in the Tour. I get, instead, a stupidly overused climb that not only will we get to see in the Tour as well, but also that we saw in last year's Tour. Twice.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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16 Jan 2013 14:47

Netserk wrote:Sorry, it's just that you voted in the poll for Tour-Vuelta-Giro


Did I now... sorry, mouse fart. :o

Needless to say, I'd take the Giro route over the Vuelta route 101 times out of 100.
User avatar Descender
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16 Jan 2013 14:49

Telegraphe-Galibier has been used what 2011 2007 2005? ASO are never going to do a proper stage with it so good on RCS.... Even 150km with Cenis is better than cutting Iseran in half and finishing in Briancon.
Ferminal
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16 Jan 2013 14:49

OlavEH wrote:The Tour also have a notable lack of hilly stages. The stages are either dead flat or mountainous. The classic like stages you find in the Giro is almost never used in the Tour.


How do you know? Most stage profiles haven't been unveiled yet.

The knee-jerk TdF bashfest continues...
User avatar Descender
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16 Jan 2013 14:51

Libertine Seguros wrote:When the Giro or the Vuelta go into France I hope for something other than the same, stale, tired old climbs we see every single year in the Tour. I get, instead, a stupidly overused climb that not only will we get to see in the Tour as well, but also that we saw in last year's Tour. Twice.


While I understand your predicament, we have to remember race organisers, especially Unipublic right now, often depend on the financial support of the hosting towns. If Peyragudes has the bucks and the intention to host stage finishes and, say, St-Jean-Pied-de-Port doesn't, it's understandable they do stages to Peyragudes.
User avatar Descender
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16 Jan 2013 14:58

I went Giro Vuelta Tour.

They are all better than last year.

I was a bit underwhelmed by the Giro parcours initially, as I hate any more than one short mountain stage, but the detailed analysis I read on here about the hilly/rolling/medium mountain stages has me intrigued.

I dislike a few of the Tour mountain stages, and I hate the proliferation of ramp finishes in the Vuelta.

But what made me put the Tour in bottom spot is the complete absence of interesting medium mountain stages, or stages with the X-factor.
barmaher
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19 Jan 2013 10:20

I have not voted in the poll; I actually find the routes relatively similar in strength/interest, but some comments regardless on what I can remember of the parcours.

The Vuelta stuns us with a category 1 MTF on race day 2! It's not something that I want regularly, but this is a nice change of pace; it will be good to see an early shake up in the GC. Too often at the TDF we go through the motions of 7-10 stages that are meaningless to the GC. Also with the Vuelta, good form will be required throughout the three weeks, rather than peaking for a 1-2 week period.

The one quiet period in the Vuelta is from stages 4-7 with not much happening. If you are going to have a TTT then I'd prefer it later in week 1, so possibly would have worked better with that on stage 5 and throw in a prologue (or something a little longer like start of 2009 TDF), especially seeing as we are criminally low on ITT.

The TDF first week seems very bland. Not much has been made out of the Corsica stages, so the only interest for GC will be to see who stays on their bike. That said, a big positive is that the first high mountain stage comes on stage 8, so we are not waiting as long as usual for this. Ax3-Domaines is a fine stage too; a little overused perhaps, but I think that is acceptable for an anniversary edition. The disappointment is the decision not to return to Plad-adet MTF the following day. This 'could' still end up being a decent stage, but if 30 riders roll in together at the finish in the valley then we will have a right to be angry about that stage.

It's nice that the TDF has inserted an ITT into the middle of the race, but as many have said, it probably should have been longer. 55km and flat would have been a better decision. The following ITT is very good; 32 kms with a couple of serious climbs.

Will there be too many stages of nothing happening in week 2?

The final week is brilliant; I'm a little baffled at the backlash towards it. We have Venteoux; yes it's regularly used, but it almost always produces great racing. The same can be said for Alp Du'ez, and two ascents of it will make for a rather difficult stage (though of course you could just go over the Madeleine and others instead!). The Le Grand Bornard stage is a ripper and will cause major time gaps, and coming on the back of all the other difficulties, that short final MTF will do just fine.

It's become a regular thingy now for the GT's to have the Queen stage (or close to it) on the penultimate stage and the trend continues further in 2013. Giro and Vuelta stages are epic, even if a return to the Angliru after just two years is perhaps a little soon.

The Giro has a perfect balance of climbing and time trialling, but is there enough climbing of any significance before stage 13, and if not does that make the race again too back ended?

Strangely enough, the Giro and Vuelta have chosen to showcase the Tour on this years route, with the Galibier and Perysourdes stages being arguably the best of the route. It's ridiculous really that it's taken the Giro to get the best out of the Galibier...the Telegraphe route is much better than the shallower gradients we saw on the finish in 2011.

Perhaps these two stages should have been in the Tour themselves?

The Vuelta has gone pretty top heavy on the summit finishers, but let's see what racing it produces. Of course not many of us just want to see attacks from Rodriguez inside the last 2 kms...

But there seems to be a few 'proper' mountain stages.

I would give all of these parcours an 8. As is usually the case, you'd only need dramatically change a stage or two to make each course significantly better.
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18 May 2013 13:27

well, well, well.... This turns out to be a Giro for posterity.

So apparently the frenchies made the Pailheres the highest climb so their festivities not be ruined by weather.
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18 May 2013 13:35

No Galibier makes it a pretty tough choice. Would come down the design of the hilly finishes in July.
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18 May 2013 13:40

One mountain stage with more than 1 climb before stage 19?

Oh dear.
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