ferryman wrote:Man you are a case. You abandoned our boy Andy cos he didn't have it to beat Bertie, you got on the Froome train cos you thought he could beat Bertie, now you are just about to get on the Wiggins train if I read where you are going with this.
And yes totally agree, you have nothing new to say.
jilbiker wrote:Wiggins on pure talent is not in the same category as AC. Wiggins admits that also.
Last year's "wins" were from the compensation of the Sky train.
That train is back to the 2009 level in my opinion with the exit of some notable clinic related names.
Actually I rate Wiggins below Nibali, Purito, Basso, the list continues.....
airstream wrote:It is conventionality and not a guarantee of defeat. Going by talent, everyone should surrender straight on the start, no?
It is wrong to explain everything by the train. Wiggins was very strong himself. He was the second climber in the race, after Froome.
Today Wiggins is a much better time trialist than in 2009. And even back then he was a very good climber, considering how much he had to work at the front. Wiggins had back up only on Le Grand Bornard stage. On the rest stages he defended very decently looking into account that it was his debut like a GC contender. But again he improved as a climber too.
My logic is Contador won't be able to win a pure class if Wiggins will show up at 2012 level. Moreover it will be very difficult to win if Wiggins turns out to be the second climber in the race. It's very hard to gain time by miles alone even for Contador.
In all the years: Contador won alone:
- 45 sec on Verbier;
- 50 (?) sec on Angliru;
All the rest was gain with one's help. Contador needs cooperations, he needs the guys who will be very good (better than Wiggins) climbers. Nibali and Basso will be stronger than Wiggins? I'm not sure.
18-Valve. (pithy) wrote:I don't think Contador will start, but regardless... it's a bit much to assume that Wiggins will be the (second) best climber in the race. Sure, if you account for consistency and take the Sky train - Froome in particular - for granted, then yes, he was the second best climber in the Tour, but that was on a medium mountain course... ASO even advertised it as such.
Basso on 2010 form would certainly be able to drop both Wiggins and Nibali. Don't forget that Scarponi was a better climber than Nibali in the 2011 Giro, either. Nibali is not some guy that will easily win the Giro if the big guns aren't there.
gregrowlerson wrote:Can't help but feel that Wiggins is ridiculously underrated on these boards. The guy wins Paris-Nice, Romandie, Dauphne, Tour and Olympic time trial in the one season! I get that he's kinda boring, but the bloke was a bit of a superman in 2012...
18-Valve. (pithy) wrote:The Tour was a telephoned victory. The route suited him very well. Evans' sudden "form crisis" and the absence of Contador and Schleck certainly didn't hurt.
The other races you mention are perfect form. TT-heavy races, sadly.
airstream wrote:Oh, how differently we look at that... On a serious note, I do not understand WHY Wiggins is not able to defend strongly in a time trialist manner say as Andreas Kloden did in his best years. He will not compete with Contador in explosiveness. Wiggins' style may seem lazy, inflexible, disgusting (quite relevant despriprion, considering how he is estimated), but it is just a visual thing. If he is on form, he will be ride like a train himself even at 8-9% sections.
airstream wrote:I would agree, if Wiggins would godlessly have given away the time on the climbs, but he was strong there too.
The man got over Angliru among the best while being not in the best shape. Why should we belittle his climbing skills?
18-Valve. (pithy) wrote:He can handle those "single climb" stages just fine. Verbier 2009 proved he could do it.
Anyway, I expect Wiggins to be up there in the climbs in the first mountain stages of the Giro. I think he'll have the pink jersey for quite some time.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.
Eshnar wrote:if he's anywhere near his top form he'll start stage 19 in pink (barring a huge L'Aquila-style breakaway). That's for sure. AC or not.
18-Valve. (pithy) wrote:Yup.
Stage 19 will be a nice leg softener for stage 20. I expect him to lose the Giro in the Tre Cime stage. Make sure you'll have your popcorn ready.
18-Valve. (pithy) wrote:The Tour was a telephoned victory. The route suited him very well. Evans' sudden "form crisis" and the absence of Contador and Schleck certainly didn't hurt, either.
The other races you mention are perfect for him. TT-heavy races, sadly.