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At what point does placing in a GT become irrelevant?

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06 Feb 2013 11:47

Jason_Mercier wrote:A good stage win should be more valuable that a 4th, 5th... place in the overall.


How is it in terms of UCI points, does anyone know?

Do you get points for 10th place overall? And if so, is it more or less than for a stage win?
piccoli equivoci senza importanza.

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User avatar Christian
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06 Feb 2013 11:56

The cut off between points and no points is where GC placing becomes irrelevant. The UCI make the rules and everyone has to lump it while they're still running the sport. Doesn't change that fact that a GC rider's job is to get those points
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06 Feb 2013 12:00

Ryo Hazuki wrote:after the third place. any other place, who cares


You seemed to care about Henao defending his position in the Vuelta in May.
barmaher
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06 Feb 2013 12:15

barmaher wrote:You seemed to care about Henao defending his position in the Vuelta in May.


yes in the first week when he was still placed well and the vuelta in may? :rolleyes:
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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06 Feb 2013 12:40

Ryo Hazuki wrote:yes in the first week when he was still placed well and the vuelta in may? :rolleyes:

La Vuelta a Italia maybe? :D
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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User avatar Eshnar
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06 Feb 2013 12:51

Overall placing in a GT carries more WT points than a stage win through placing 14. So I'm going to go with top 14 :)
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Alberto Contador: "And yes, it is true that for me it's the same to finish second or 10th."

Vincezo Nibali joins Anquetil, Gimondi, Merckx, Hinault and Contador as only the 6th winner of all 3 Grand Tours! Bravo Lo Squalo!
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06 Feb 2013 13:12

Ryo Hazuki wrote:yes in the first week when he was still placed well and the vuelta in may? :rolleyes:


My mistake. Clearly I meant the Giro.

I think it is ridiculous to claim that 4th in a debut GT (for instance) is not worth caring about.
barmaher
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06 Feb 2013 13:19

Carols wrote:Overall placing in a GT carries more WT points than a stage win through placing 14. So I'm going to go with top 14 :)


Crazy system really.
A much steeper drop off curve needed for GT placement points.
Dazed and Confused
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06 Feb 2013 13:19

It depends on how the race pans out, what impact riders getting time from breakaways has on the standings. The 2010 Giro is a extreme example of that. Sometimes a 15th place might indicate something, sometimes it is just a lucky rider.
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06 Feb 2013 13:28

Carols wrote:Overall placing in a GT carries more WT points than a stage win through placing 14. So I'm going to go with top 14 :)


Maybe in Grand Tours, they should list half the stages as being worth double points to the others. So in instead of 20,10,6,4,2....why not go 30,15,12,8,4 for ten stages and 15,8,5,3,2 for the other stages.

The big stages might be all the mountain stages, the ITT and maybe Paris and one or two weekend sprints.

Or scrap that. Who cares about the UCI points system?
barmaher
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06 Feb 2013 13:41

Purely results oriented, I'd say anything outside a top 10 is irrelevant. However, trying to hold on to 12th or 14th can be a good aim for a young rider so it's not entirely black and white.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:contador is such a coward :o
User avatar Hugo Koblet
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06 Feb 2013 13:52

barmaher wrote:
Or scrap that. Who cares about the UCI points system?


WT teams and teams trying to become WT care :)

Plus it makes riders with WT points worth more in the marketplace, so I'd imagine they care also.
Carol S.
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Vincezo Nibali joins Anquetil, Gimondi, Merckx, Hinault and Contador as only the 6th winner of all 3 Grand Tours! Bravo Lo Squalo!
User avatar Carols
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06 Feb 2013 13:53

Carols wrote:WT teams and teams trying to become WT care :)


Riders looking for a ride next season also care.
del1962
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06 Feb 2013 15:09

Oh I know they care.

I am just wondering aloud whether we should care.
barmaher
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06 Feb 2013 15:11

Ryo Hazuki wrote:after the third place. any other place, who cares


The riders care, and you would care too if it was some young Colombian competing in his first grand tour and got say a top 10.
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06 Feb 2013 15:11

For a big rider, everything but a win is irrelevant.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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06 Feb 2013 15:21

This is true, if you categorise a "big rider" in current terms as Contador, Wiggins, Nibali, Schleck and Froome.

Indeed, I think that Schleck would be happy if he podiumed the Giro this year. And maybe I think Evans would be happy with a podium.

But for all the other 500+ professional cyclists, top 3 in a GT is not irrelevant. And for almost all of them top 10 is not irrelevant.
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06 Feb 2013 15:45

Afrank wrote:The riders care, and you would care too if it was some young Colombian competing in his first grand tour and got say a top 10.


no I wouldn't. when have you heard me about henao's 9th place last year, only about him doing well in a first gt. but result wise anything but podium is not worth mentioning. if a rider is young or a first gt then it's great indication and only idiot riders care who lack any mentality to win races.
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
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06 Feb 2013 18:05

Ryo Hazuki wrote:no I wouldn't. when have you heard me about henao's 9th place last year, only about him doing well in a first gt. but result wise anything but podium is not worth mentioning. if a rider is young or a first gt then it's great indication and only idiot riders care who lack any mentality to win races.


Fair enough, I disagree with you however that anything other than a podium isn't worth mentioning; not every rider is capable of winning the biggest races. For some a top 10 is the best they can do. Depending on the rider I would say a top 10 result does tell you about the riders capabilities, and thus is worth mentioning.

Also I believe a rider can care about getting a top 10 in some races and still have the mentality to win other races.
User avatar Afrank
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06 Feb 2013 18:13

Depends on the size of the team they are riding for - for a small domestic team at the Giro, Tour or Vuelta, I think there is nothing to be ashamed about targeting a top 10 (or even top 20) placing with their best GC rider while others on their team go for breaks and stage wins.
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