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2013 Paris Nice

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

07 Feb 2013 16:22

Eshnar wrote:And the MTF of Tirreno isn't nice? :confused:
and what about the other stages?

Did I say MTF of Tirreno isn't nice?
I said the final itt is better in P-N for expected T-A field.
Other stages pretty much equal. Some opportunities for sprinters and breakers. Although all stages aren't published yet, stage 4 promises nice mix of non-GC stages. Stage 6 should provoke an epic breakaway or daring jump.
All in all, I like it more than T-A.
User avatar serfla
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07 Feb 2013 16:30

serfla wrote:Did I say MTF of Tirreno isn't nice?

we were comparing the routes so I assumed that you liked the PN mtf more than the TA.
serfla wrote:I said the final itt is better in P-N for expected T-A field.

ok
serfla wrote:Other stages pretty much equal. Some opportunities for sprinters and breakers. Although all stages aren't published yet, stage 4 promises nice mix of non-GC stages. Stage 6 should provoke an epic breakaway or daring jump.
All in all, I like it more than T-A.

first of all, the non-published stages we could assume are less interesting than stage 6, that is by far the worst stage published. Forget any kind of 'daring jumps' in that stage. The climb is 70 kms from the finish and the stage is squeezed between a MTF and an MTT.

otoh, TA has only one clear stage for sprints and another one where sprinters will sweat badly but may take it. It then has an ardennes-like stage which is miles better than stage 4 of PN and the stage to Chieti which is infinitely better than the one to Nice.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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User avatar Eshnar
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07 Feb 2013 16:55

What a crap course. Westra FTW.
theyoungest
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07 Feb 2013 16:56

Eshnar wrote:first of all, the non-published stages we could assume are less interesting than stage 6, that is by far the worst stage published. Forget any kind of 'daring jumps' in that stage. The climb is 70 kms from the finish and the stage is squeezed between a MTF and an MTT.

You don't think someone, far in the GC not interested for the itt, could try his luck in last 20 - 30 kilometers, after the intermediate sprint? Or that a group of riders could survive exactly because the stage follows uphill finish and precedes itt, so the favorites will probably take it easier?
Tailor made for Hoogerland, if he's going to ride.
User avatar serfla
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07 Feb 2013 16:58

serfla wrote:You don't think someone, far in the GC not interested for the itt, could try his luck in last 20 - 30 kilometers, after the intermediate sprint? Or that a group of riders could survive exactly because the stage follows uphill finish and precedes itt, so the favorites will probably take it easier?
Tailor made for Hoogerland, if he's going to ride.


No way will Johnny be fit to ride unfortunately.
...[Walsh] thinks we're ahead of the curve. But think about it for a sec. We're building long-lasting, trusting relationships with people who are spending a lot of money - Coke, Nike, Subaru. If we're f***ing lying, we can kiss it all goodbye. And if we were lying we'd do some stupid stuff to try to cover it up, wouldn't we? Does anybody think for a second that a secret that big wouldn't come out? Bill Stapleton
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07 Feb 2013 17:11

will10 wrote:No way will Johnny be fit to ride unfortunately.

Yes, I've forgotten about the incident.
Let's hope there will be some brave opportunists
User avatar serfla
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07 Feb 2013 17:48

serfla wrote:You don't think someone, far in the GC not interested for the itt, could try his luck in last 20 - 30 kilometers, after the intermediate sprint? Or that a group of riders could survive exactly because the stage follows uphill finish and precedes itt, so the favorites will probably take it easier?
Tailor made for Hoogerland, if he's going to ride.

That stage will go to the breakaway I'm sure. No one will chase them.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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07 Feb 2013 19:11

I've just taken a closer look at the areas where non-published stages are passing through.
Stage 1 typical sprinters'.
2 - sprinters' course, but possible spiced finish since it ends at the very foot of Massif Central... Something like short ascent or a sequence of them before the finish.
3 - Massif Central
4, 5, 6 - published.

Not bad at all.
Something for every type of rider.
User avatar serfla
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07 Feb 2013 19:15

serfla wrote:3 - Massif Central

with a very suspicious loop in the end...
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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07 Feb 2013 19:28

stage two has one of those suspicious loops as well, hopefully it will include a climb, like suspicious loops at the foot of the central massif ought to, so that the finale will be intresting.

If stage 2 has a punchy finale, and stage 3 is a massif-centrale stage with the possibility to be selective for the GC, then this parcour will actually be awesome. If stage 2 and 3 are boring stages where nothing will happen, I'd be disappointed with this parcour.
User avatar Maaaaaaaarten
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07 Feb 2013 19:30

The Nice stage is awful in so many ways that I almost can't believe it. If we're going to persist with that, at least give us the nice Nice loop stage we had in 2008-9-10. It's like the ASO is going out of its way to make its stage races suck. The best stage is the first hillyish one with a small climb 9km from the finish. Hopefully we get some echelon action or something in the first half of the race. But seriously, that penultimate stage. It's like they saw how much I criticised the Biot stage in 2011 (and what a waste of a weekend stage it was) and decided to prove me wrong by proving that, actually, they can make a more underwhelming stage.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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07 Feb 2013 19:30

Maaaaaaaarten wrote:stage two has one of those suspicious loops as well, hopefully it will include a climb, like suspicious loops at the foot of the central massif ought to, so that the finale will be intresting.

If stage 2 has a punchy finale, and stage 3 is a massif-centrale stage with the possibility to be selective for the GC, then this parcour will actually be awesome. If stage 2 and 3 are boring stages where nothing will happen, I'd be disappointed with this parcour.

Like the usual suspicious loops at the foot of Pyrenees we get in the TDF? :(
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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07 Feb 2013 19:36

Eshnar wrote:Like the usual suspicious loops at the foot of Pyrenees we get in the TDF? :(


You make me sad :(

mostly because you're likely to be right :(

Now let me look at the profile of TA to cheer up a little bit. :o

EDIT: it didn't work
User avatar Maaaaaaaarten
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07 Feb 2013 19:39

The Nice stage is awful. Obviously they don't want to use Eze with the TT to come but that is not the only climb in the area.
...[Walsh] thinks we're ahead of the curve. But think about it for a sec. We're building long-lasting, trusting relationships with people who are spending a lot of money - Coke, Nike, Subaru. If we're f***ing lying, we can kiss it all goodbye. And if we were lying we'd do some stupid stuff to try to cover it up, wouldn't we? Does anybody think for a second that a secret that big wouldn't come out? Bill Stapleton
User avatar will10
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07 Feb 2013 19:40

this route is even worse then i was expecting. . . . we knew montagne de lure would be feature and so would the col d'Eze MTT but i was expecting at least 1 more proper hilly/selective stage :o

i miss the traditional last stage ending in nice with the col d' eze circuit :(

it looks like the only exciting things left for PN this year is seeing who took the biggest step to become a top rider after a great season last year btw Costa, TdG, TJVG and henao (if he is riding ofc) and if Gesink has trully left all his bed luck behind and will look like his old or should i say young self.

i for one think he is on the right path
User avatar Parrulo
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07 Feb 2013 19:58

I'm thinking positively.
And I'm not an opponent of the ASO and fan of RCS by default.
It's true that Italians recently have put some attractive routes on the paper, but from various reasons (cancelations, defensive racing, etc.) what has been on the paper often hasn't conveyed to the road.
Dislike towards ASO I see like emotional rather than rational stance.
This time I think it's pity that T-A field doesn't ride P-N.

Edit:
i miss the traditional last stage ending in nice with the col d' eze circuit

Well, the finishing uphill itt is tradition. Take a look further back in the history.
User avatar serfla
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07 Feb 2013 20:00

serfla wrote:i'm thinking positively.
And i'm not an opponent of the aso and fan of rcs by default.
It's true that italians recently have put some attractive routes on the paper, but from various reasons (cancelations, defensive racing, etc.) what has been on the paper often hasn't conveyed to the road.
Dislike towards aso i see like emotional rather than rational stance.
This time i think it's pity that t-a field doesn't ride p-n.

Edit:

Well, the finishing uphill itt is tradition. Take a look further back in the history.


+ 1
Waterloo Sunrise
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07 Feb 2013 20:00

Certainly there is a touch of romanticism attached to expectations and so there is a bit of an emotional attachment causing anger at ASO sometimes.

But after it produced some of the best racing of 2008, 2009 and 2010, I think crapping on the routes of the 2011, 2012 and 2013 editions of the race is fully rational and justified.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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07 Feb 2013 20:03

Paurcours ain't bad at all- nothing special but at least those stages bordering the 200k are good indeed. Plus this year is going to be more competitive because of the absent of the big stars.
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?
Sun Tzu
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07 Feb 2013 20:04

serfla wrote:I'm thinking positively.
And I'm not an opponent of the ASO and fan of RCS by default.
It's true that Italians recently have put some attractive routes on the paper,

Wait. I only gave a 6/10 rating to the Giro route. I'm judging the routes. Don't give a fu** about who designes them.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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