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2013 Tour of Oman (11th-16th February), 2.HC

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12 Feb 2013 22:08

El Pistolero wrote:If he's smart he'll help Gallopin, in order to earn his loyalty for the classics. Like he did with Breschel at Dwars door Vlaanderen.


Canc don't really need a great team to win a classic. He can do it by himself.
User avatar Miburo
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12 Feb 2013 22:12

Miburo wrote:Canc don't really need a great team to win a classic. He can do it by himself.

Can you give me an example? :rolleyes:
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
User avatar Netserk
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12 Feb 2013 22:13

I really want to see a cancellara vs sagan before the classics begin. You can add gilbert to the mix too. I
gruppeto993
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12 Feb 2013 22:14

Miburo wrote:Canc don't really need a great team to win a classic. He can do it by himself.


just like he did in 2011 and 2012 . . . . oh wait
User avatar Parrulo
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12 Feb 2013 22:17

Sagan is a beast.
Unstoppable, unbreakable.

What a move guys, what a move.
" wrote:"It's magnificent to end it like this," he said. "All the big champions like (Laurent) Jalabert and (Richard) Virenque went out on top and I wanted to do the same."?
User avatar Pippo_San
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12 Feb 2013 22:27

Parrulo wrote:just like he did in 2011 and 2012 . . . . oh wait


When was it useful in 2012? Milan-sanremo? A good team wouldn't have helped him there.

In 2011, ok for paris-roubaix he could use a good team there for sure but i don't know about RVV. If he didn't get cramps, he would have prob won it anyways.

Besides Canc showed many times he doesn't need a good team to win a big race which was my original point.
User avatar Miburo
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12 Feb 2013 23:17

Using 2012 is quite unfair (as Miburo mentions) as he crashed out of RvV and therefore couldn't even participate in P-R. We'll never know if he had won those races. Of course he, as well as anyone, could benefit from a stronger team, but he has proven before that he is capable of winning without.
User avatar The Blues
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12 Feb 2013 23:34

Boonen could've won the Ronde in 2010 if he didn't cramp up. :o

You do realize Cancellara cramped up because Chavanel, Boonen's team-mate, didn't take a single turn on the front?

He made the same mistake in 2007. And again at the 2009 WC where he was also isolated. 2011 Ronde and Roubaix are again obvious examples as is MSR 2012. At least Gerrans and Nibali could play the Goss and Sagan card respectively.

In 2010 he had a super strong team and for some reason was not marked by anyone but Boonen. In 2006 he would've won either way because of the train incident.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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12 Feb 2013 23:34



Berto looked like he was working hard on the uphill.

I'm still getting used to Nibbles in Astana kit....

Holy Smokes that Sagan is impressive descending and attacking!!!! What an animal!!!
Carol S.
~~~~
Alberto Contador: "And yes, it is true that for me it's the same to finish second or 10th."

Vincezo Nibali joins Anquetil, Gimondi, Merckx, Hinault and Contador as only the 6th winner of all 3 Grand Tours! Bravo Lo Squalo!
User avatar Carols
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12 Feb 2013 23:56

El Pistolero wrote:You do realize Cancellara cramped up because Chavanel, Boonen's team-mate, didn't take a single turn on the front?

.


You are more likely to get cramps if someone is slipstreaming behind you then if they arent? Wow, didnt know that, thanks doc
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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12 Feb 2013 23:58

Parrulo wrote:just like he did in 2011 and 2012 . . . . oh wait

Still, I believe he can win without the team. Although the support he had was weak, I think his defeats in 2011 were more due to lack of tactical instinct, specially Flanders (I mean, attacking from what 40km out on the Leeberg or whatever?!)
User avatar trevim
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13 Feb 2013 00:00

The Hitch wrote:You are more likely to get cramps if someone is slipstreaming behind you then if they arent? Wow, didnt know that, thanks doc


Eh? The point is obvious: he had no team and other teams were working against him, so he had to do all the work him self which tired him out.

If Chavanel didn't have Boonen as a team-mate he would not have had an excuse not to co-operate and they probably wouldn't have been caught.

Cancellara also wouldn't have needed to attack so early, but he was again forced to because he had no team-mates left anymore and Chavanel had quite a nice lead. And you don't give a rider like Chavanel such a lead, Devolder's 2009 victory is a prime example of that.

trevim wrote:Still, I believe he can win without the team. Although the support he had was weak, I think his defeats in 2011 were more due to lack of tactical instinct, specially Flanders (I mean, attacking from what 40km out on the Leeberg or whatever?!)


He practically did the same thing in 2007...
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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13 Feb 2013 00:10

El Pistolero wrote:
If Chavanel didn't have Boonen as a team-mate he would not have had an excuse not to co-operate and they probably wouldn't have been caught.


Cancellara didnt attack thinking - oh look Chavannel is up front, we work together and win:rolleyes:

He had dropped all the top guys from 50k out in PR the year before. He dropped everyone from 20k out in e3. WHen he attacked he knew it was going to be all himself.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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13 Feb 2013 00:12

The Hitch wrote:Cancellara didnt attack thinking - oh look Chavannel is up front, we work together and win:rolleyes:

He had dropped all the top guys from 50k out in PR the year before. He dropped everyone from 20k out in e3. WHen he attacked he knew it was going to be all himself.


And this proves he doesn't need a team how lol?

He dropped a bunch of nobodies in the E3. Hubris.

He sure as hell begged Chavanel quite some time asking him to take over.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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13 Feb 2013 00:31

El Pistolero wrote:And this proves he doesn't need a team how lol?



It doesnt. I was only responding to the bit where you wrote this

You do realize Cancellara cramped up because Chavanel, Boonen's team-mate, didn't take a single turn on the front?


Ergo why in my original response i took out all the other crap and left just this

You do realize Cancellara cramped up because Chavanel, Boonen's team-mate, didn't take a single turn on the front?


:rolleyes:
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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13 Feb 2013 00:35

Yes, not a single team-mate to help him out. Makes you tired and cramped up. Nothing wrong with what I said. Of course you still think Cancellara should've won Ronde '11, so it's impossible to have a discussion with you on this subject. Facts remain that he was isolated rather quickly and had to chase Chavanel himself. Took him a while to even catch Chavanel.

If he had team-mates he could've used them to chase Chavanel back and launch his attack at a more tactical place. Not sure what you're trying to prove anyway.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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13 Feb 2013 00:43

Main reason for cramp is dehydration, team mates get you fresh bidons and look after you, the Leopard team he had were awful much stronger team for him this year, but he wont come into the classics in same way he has before. Same with bonnen whos elbow has been set back. Sagan has a chance to win something for sure.

Going check out stage 3 now, its slight uphill looks interesting
http://sbbcolumns.co.uk/tour-de-france-2015-outright-yellow-preview/ My look at the fight for yellow in the Tour de France
User avatar manafana
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13 Feb 2013 01:25

El Pistolero wrote: Nothing wrong with what I said.


You said cancellara cramped because chavanel was wheelsucking him. I think that is wrong because i dont believe it makes a difference whether someone is roding behind you or not. that is not a variable in cramp.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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13 Feb 2013 01:35

Right my look at who is getting involved in Stage 3


This is a long stage so i dont see likes of kittel getting their with the uphill finish also more suitable to stronger guys.
http://sbbcolumns.co.uk/tour-de-france-2015-outright-yellow-preview/ My look at the fight for yellow in the Tour de France
User avatar manafana
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13 Feb 2013 01:41

The Hitch wrote:You said cancellara cramped because chavanel was wheelsucking him. I think that is wrong because i dont believe it makes a difference whether someone is roding behind you or not. that is not a variable in cramp.


Dehydration is: you dehydrate faster when you waste more energy. Why else do you think Chavanel wasn't dehydrated? He was sitting in Cancellara's wheel wasting less energy and didn't forget to drink.

So yes, having to ride 30km solo will make you waste more energy and thus make you dehydrate faster. If he had someone to help him it would've been much easier. Just look at the 2010 edition.

It obviously makes a world of difference whether or not someone is just sitting there in your wheel.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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