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Acquarone's Gauntlet

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Acquarone's Gauntlet

15 Feb 2013 21:49

Well we knew it was coming ? Michele has tossed his two cents worth into the fray :

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/acquarone-the-worldtour-must-have-18-teams

“What a mess. Now we have 19 teams so I’m curious to see what’s going to happen. We’ve planned everything for 18 teams and then the wildcard teams. We’re not ready for 19 WorldTour teams. Logistically everything has been set up for races like Tirreno and the Giro. I really don’t know how we’d have one more team in the race,”

Goes on with :

" Maybe they’ll take one team out of the WorldTour because as it stands we’ve got an agreement for 18 teams, not 19. I just don’t know. At the moment I think we have to go back to 18 teams "
User avatar skippy
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15 Feb 2013 21:53

almost everything involving UCI belongs in the Clinic....
Dazed and Confused
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15 Feb 2013 21:54

Moved to the Pro Road Racing Subforum.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

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15 Feb 2013 23:01

They say its a mess but the answer to this mess is in the stinking story!

Let the races (ASO, RCS and <insert the Spanish acronym>) decide who races, what happened in 2007 with the ASO and le Tour actually capturing dopers instead of generating lists of suspicion and sitting on their hands (UCI).
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User avatar ElChingon
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15 Feb 2013 23:06

ElChingon wrote:They say its a mess but the answer to this mess is in the stinking story!

Let the races (ASO, RCS and <insert the Spanish acronym>) decide who races, what happened in 2007 with the ASO and le Tour actually capturing dopers instead of generating lists of suspicion and sitting on their hands (UCI).

Unipublic.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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15 Feb 2013 23:11

Maybe teams should spread out the wt loss. Some team which cares jack **** about the giro and wanted WT only for the Tour (which applies to half of them, though maybe less so this year). can take the hit for the Giro (Saxo wont mind probably). Then someone else for the Vuelta. EE can take the hit for the cobbled classics. For the Tour just dont invite Coledeportes who should focus on the GIro anyway and have Katusha basically have that last wildcard space.

There will probably be more volunteers for the week long stage races.

Done.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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15 Feb 2013 23:11

argos out, at all costs
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15 Feb 2013 23:18

ElChingon wrote:They say its a mess but the answer to this mess is in the stinking story!

Let the races (ASO, RCS and <insert the Spanish acronym>) decide who races, what happened in 2007 with the ASO and le Tour actually capturing dopers instead of generating lists of suspicion and sitting on their hands (UCI).


meh, can't run serious professional teams without firm commitments about the calendar. The amateur days are long gone.

Instead UCI needs to run its ranking system in a transparent and open manner (read: redesigned system) so stakeholders can follow whats going on throughout the season without being surprised about what teams are in 1st division the following year. Having a bunch of suits in a room deciding who get to go where at the end of the season based on some subjective ideas simply drives corruption, scandals and otherwise.
Dazed and Confused
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16 Feb 2013 00:17

The Hitch wrote:Maybe teams should spread out the wt loss. Some team which cares jack **** about the giro and wanted WT only for the Tour (which applies to half of them, though maybe less so this year). can take the hit for the Giro (Saxo wont mind probably). Then someone else for the Vuelta. EE can take the hit for the cobbled classics. For the Tour just dont invite Coledeportes who should focus on the GIro anyway and have Katusha basically have that last wildcard space.

There will probably be more volunteers for the week long stage races.

Done.


Along those lines, my solution for the Giro would be for each of the 23 teams involved to submit a sealed bid which would contain the number of WT points they would gain by staying at home:- team with the lowest bid gets those points and drops out. Similar could apply for the other races

That should mean that the team with the least ambition stays at home which is good for us and also provides some compensation for the team that has been messed around
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16 Feb 2013 02:45

Dazed and Confused wrote:meh, can't run serious professional teams without firm commitments about the calendar. The amateur days are long gone.

Instead UCI needs to run its ranking system in a transparent and open manner (read: redesigned system) so stakeholders can follow whats going on throughout the season without being surprised about what teams are in 1st division the following year. Having a bunch of suits in a room deciding who get to go where at the end of the season based on some subjective ideas simply drives corruption, scandals and otherwise.


What, why can't you run a serious pro team with semi-solid commitments, as in if you go against the rules you are out! Don't race enough and get some quality placings, you are out!

This would only raise the bar, races want the best not just riders who train for one race a year. Why, because those riders riding the most garner the most fans. Sure winning le Tour gets a rider top billing but not if they don't qualify to ride le Tour by sitting on the bench the whole early season.
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User avatar ElChingon
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16 Feb 2013 02:48

Eyeballs Out wrote:Along those lines, my solution for the Giro would be for each of the 23 teams involved to submit a sealed bid which would contain the number of WT points they would gain by staying at home:- team with the lowest bid gets those points and drops out. Similar could apply for the other races

That should mean that the team with the least ambition stays at home which is good for us and also provides some compensation for the team that has been messed around


Lotto Belisol- 0
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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16 Feb 2013 02:52

Eyeballs Out wrote:Along those lines, my solution for the Giro would be for each of the 23 teams involved to submit a sealed bid which would contain the number of WT points they would gain by staying at home:- team with the lowest bid gets those points and drops out. Similar could apply for the other races

That should mean that the team with the least ambition stays at home which is good for us and also provides some compensation for the team that has been messed around


I sort of like this idea. It might be interesting to create a bidding system for the entire season. Teams amass points then use them to bid on races they want to attend.
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
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16 Feb 2013 08:15

ElChingon wrote:What, why can't you run a serious pro team with semi-solid commitments, as in if you go against the rules you are out! Don't race enough and get some quality placings, you are out!

This would only raise the bar, races want the best not just riders who train for one race a year. Why, because those riders riding the most garner the most fans. Sure winning le Tour gets a rider top billing but not if they don't qualify to ride le Tour by sitting on the bench the whole early season.


It is already very difficult to sell $10M sponsorships at the top of our sport. Without a firm understanding of where the exposure will come from it will be impossible. If you prefer to give race organisers more discretionary power simply reduce the number of teams in the first division to say 12-15.

A well designed ranking system will take care of the commitment to the races at the top, just like it does in many other professional sport.

The alternative will be a bunch of Savio type teams scrambling to find space on the jersey for $100K sponsor donations.
Dazed and Confused
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16 Feb 2013 08:43

BroDeal wrote:I sort of like this idea. It might be interesting to create a bidding system for the entire season. Teams amass points then use them to bid on races they want to attend.


perhaps workable, but fans are often driven by certain rivalries: Boonen vs Cancellara, Froome vs Contador etc. Personally prefer top riders targeting similar races like the one in Oman. I can see lots of deal making behind the scenes with such a bidding system.
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16 Feb 2013 08:52

8 riders for GTs...simple as that
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Ryo Hazuki in August 2013 wrote:what? quintana is already better climber than froome. see final stages of the tour and he's only 23. quintana is the best climber I've sene since pantani. he will become a legend
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16 Feb 2013 11:11

ILovecycling wrote:8 riders for GTs...simple as that


Not that simple ;)

Regardless of number of riders per team, one more team means more logistics: more cars and support staff in the race, one more bus, more space requirements for stage finishes and additional hotel bookings.
icefire
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16 Feb 2013 11:45

icefire wrote:Not that simple ;)

Regardless of number of riders per team, one more team means more logistics: more cars and support staff in the race, one more bus, more space requirements for stage finishes and additional hotel bookings.


I know,but also more space in the bunch,hotels,dop.controls...IMO its the best option.(ok,best option is send Argos to proconti:D)
Alberto Contador fanboy
Vamos Colombia!
Ryo Hazuki in August 2013 wrote:what? quintana is already better climber than froome. see final stages of the tour and he's only 23. quintana is the best climber I've sene since pantani. he will become a legend
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16 Feb 2013 16:44

ILovecycling wrote:I know,but also more space in the bunch,hotels,dop.controls...IMO its the best option.(ok,best option is send Argos to proconti:D)


More space in the bunch maybe, but less space in the hotels. Each team has to take their own staff after all, which number doesn't really change if you have 9, 8 or even 6 riders per team.
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16 Feb 2013 21:28

Each team may drop up to two WT races; every race guaranteed at least 16 WT teams. Any WT race that has already announced its wild cards can be guaranteed a drop out if they require it. Teams get to choose which races they drop in order of their finishing order in team rankings last year.
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16 Feb 2013 21:34

I am waiting for ASO to have a say.
Currently what they say goes, well it should if the UCI have any sense.
El Pistolero wrote: Gratz to Cav.
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