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Do You Consider J.Rodriguez a Wheelsucker?

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Do You Consider J.Rodriguez a Wheelsucker?

Poll ended at 09 Apr 2013 14:08

Yes
22
14%
No.
95
61%
Not really but his racing style can annoy me.
40
25%
 
Total votes : 157

18 Feb 2013 23:47

cineteq wrote:Yes he was stronger that day. Had he known Contador wasn't feeling that great...It's easy to talk after the fact.

You're right he hasn't been really strong up there, but he's improved from Giro to Lombardia. The guy's just started challenging GTs as of last year FFS.


Of course everything is easier in hindsight, but I don't think you need that hindsight to see that to break Contador for 2:21 you should attack him a bit earlier than 3km to go. If the roles were reversed it's not hard to guess what Contador would do, which of course they were on stage 17. I bet when Alberto attacked way out he had no idea if it was going to work or not.
deValtos
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19 Feb 2013 00:35

deValtos wrote:Of course everything is easier in hindsight, but I don't think you need that hindsight to see that to break Contador for 2:21 you should attack him a bit earlier than 3km to go. If the roles were reversed it's not hard to guess what Contador would do, which of course they were on stage 17. I bet when Alberto attacked way out he had no idea if it was going to work or not.


It's the problem with many of these Unipublic brutal MTFs that all the toughest stuff is at the top. Bola del Mundo is, until that last 3km, just the same Puerto de Navacerrada that has been in use for decades. Contador grew up climbing that. It's a risk to make the attack before then, especially for somebody like Purito who needs the steep gradients to make some separation. For the epic duel tag it got given, Mosquera only attacked Nibali at the Puerto de Navacerrada and it was only that last few, steep kilometres where the duel took place. Sure, Mosquera had much less time to make up than Purito did, and for that reason you could argue Purito had nothing to lose and should have gone for it earlier, but when all the difficulty is in the final few kilometres we should never be surprised when the riders leave it to that. Especially as unlike Contador, Rodríguez isn't the kind of guy that can keep a gap with his TT skills when they go several climbs out, so he couldn't have gone from Cotos (counterargument: Menchov was in the break, could have waited for him. Counter-counterargument: while Menchov had the strength on the day, Katyusha's domestiques had been pulling the péloton for two weeks before the Saxo ambush so may not have been able to provide enough assistance to make it hard before then).

Rodríguez attacks plenty: within his range for attacks. He perhaps lacks the confidence to make attacks from greater distance on uphill or mountaintop finishes. However, wins like Lombardia, or even more so his win into Orio in País Vasco 2010 when he crushed the field on the Alto de Aia twice, show that he's far from immune to going when there's still plenty of work to be done. If anything, Rodríguez' reputation is being hurt by some seriously crappy course design. If Unipublic will persist in designing routes with few climbs on the course until the end (so no opposition will be tired before the final climb) and putting these short to mid length climbs with super steep final 2-3km, then of course Rodríguez will continue to win races by sitting in until the final 2-3km and then attacking for the win. It's the best strategy for him. I just feel that too many courses of late have meant this strategy is easy enough for him to implement, so he has started to forget about other options.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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19 Feb 2013 10:11

There were even posters on this forum calling Cavendish a Wheelsucker....
User avatar Buffalo Soldier
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19 Feb 2013 10:27

Buffalo Soldier wrote:There were even posters on this forum calling Cavendish a Wheelsucker....


Well of course he is except for the last 50 metres where he works very hard. The wheelsucker comments are too silly for words. Rodriguez rides to his strengths like everyone else.
movingtarget
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19 Feb 2013 10:29

Of course he's not a wheelsucker. Though I have wondered at times why his rivals haven't made him do more work. For instance in the giro last year there were plenty of occasions when Basso/Scarponi/Hesjedal rode at the front or had teammates at the front in the final 50k (when Purito was fairly isolated), allowing purito to sit there and sprint away in the end and take bonus seconds. Either they weren't that concerned or not that much they could do.
BlenJones2
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19 Feb 2013 10:42

ultimobici wrote:Think you might want to reconsider.

Monument - Lombardia 2012
Attack - 8km out
Stayed away - Til the end
Won by - 9 seconds


That isn't the actions of a wheel sucker by any stretch of the imagination. It's a ride in the style of Gilbert or Kelly.
Well, now I have to change my opinion on Rodriguez. He attacked ONE time - how far from the top was it exactly - in last years last WT race he had to win in order to win the WT? That is not trully a great argument ultimobici. And, really, to compare Rodriquez with Sean Kelly does not make it better to be honest.

Still not reconsidering it as you see.

Rodriguez is a very smart man, a smart wheelsucker who knows what he is capable of and to be fair, he is the best at it. And I am not judging him on that to be fair, at least he attacks.
The Hitch wrote:All the trolls always did a tailwindhome off the forum when faced with that counterpoint. By which I mean a mysterious tailwind would blow them home and they would reappear only when the question blew over.
User avatar Fearless Greg Lemond
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19 Feb 2013 11:35

successful attacks imply that at a certain moment one is much stronger than others. strictly speaking that's the reason why we see resultative solos so rarely. and anyone dares accuse riders of the fact that they are not much stronger than the rest? Fearless Greg Lemond, how many gt riders don't you consider wheelsuckers?
User avatar airstream
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19 Feb 2013 12:00

Fearless Greg Lemond wrote:Well, now I have to change my opinion on Rodriguez. He attacked ONE time - how far from the top was it exactly - in last years last WT race he had to win in order to win the WT? .


Actually its precisely the opposite. Purito was 20 points behind in the wt and lombardia offers 100 for a win. He would have been far better off staying with everyone and placing in.the sprint, as he had the year before.

By attacking he put the wt win at risk (if he did care about it anyway).
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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19 Feb 2013 12:56

The Hitch wrote:Actually its precisely the opposite. Purito was 20 points behind in the wt and lombardia offers 100 for a win. He would have been far better off staying with everyone and placing in.the sprint, as he had the year before.
Good point, there were quite a lot of good finishers in the pack on the last climb. Not that Rodriguez is a BAD finisher, just didn't want to take a risk I guess. To me it was a typical Rodriguez victory, it seems not everyone agrees on that.
The Hitch wrote:All the trolls always did a tailwindhome off the forum when faced with that counterpoint. By which I mean a mysterious tailwind would blow them home and they would reappear only when the question blew over.
User avatar Fearless Greg Lemond
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19 Feb 2013 13:00

Lets not forget these are just humans we are talking about not machines, albeit very talented human beings. Sometimes you cant attack on every climb if the legs dont feel 100%. If someone is a strong climber without being explosive then wheelsucking is the only way to go. It's all about getting the best out of what skills you have.

Most sprinters need to stay in cover until the final 300 metres when they can go full gas, Thats just the way this sport is.
User avatar Pricey_sky
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19 Feb 2013 13:32

Yes. But with his finishing kick, its all good. Not much different than a sprinter on staby short-uphill finishes. I missed most of the Vuelta last year so I'm maybe a little off the mark, but most "climbers" sit-in until a ripe moment.
I tell ya, it's not the water.
User avatar BillytheKid
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19 Feb 2013 16:09

There has never been a bigger wheelsucker then him in the history of the sport actually. (excluding sprinters)
User avatar Bavarianrider
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19 Feb 2013 16:13

Bavarianrider wrote:There has never been a bigger wheelsucker then him in the history of the sport actually. (excluding sprinters)


http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14095&page=10
burning
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19 Feb 2013 16:15

Bavarianrider wrote:There has never been a bigger wheelsucker then him in the history of the sport actually. (excluding sprinters)


Says the Tony Martin fanboy. :p But please try to come up with some reasons behind this statement.
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19 Feb 2013 16:21

Pentacycle wrote:Says the Tony Martin fanboy. :p But please try to come up with some reasons behind this statement.


His opinions about Algarve route:

Bavarianrider wrote:TT is a bit too short to balance Alto de Mahlaho MTF. 5km more would ahve bee appropriate.
Anyway, should offer Tony a decent shot at top 3 GC finish.


It is pretty much impossible for him to be reasonable about his opinions :o
burning
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19 Feb 2013 16:23

burning wrote:His opinions about Algarve route:



It is pretty much impossible for him to be reasonable about his opinions :o

You just have to read his statement as: The ITT should only be 5 km to balance the route.

Now it is reasonable :)
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19 Feb 2013 16:26

Netserk wrote:You just have to read his statement as: The ITT should only be 5 km to balance the route.

Now it is reasonable :)


I just need to learn how to read :D
burning
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19 Feb 2013 16:27

Pentacycle wrote:Says the Tony Martin fanboy. :p But please try to come up with some reasons behind this statement.
It's safe to say that any of BR's comments outside the ITT realm can be dismissed. :)
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19 Feb 2013 16:28

burning wrote:I just need to learn how to read :D

The top-3 statement about Tony also makes sense all of a sudden :p
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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19 Feb 2013 23:42

Fearless Greg Lemond wrote:Well, now I have to change my opinion on Rodriguez. He attacked ONE time - how far from the top was it exactly - in last years last WT race he had to win in order to win the WT? That is not trully a great argument ultimobici. And, really, to compare Rodriquez with Sean Kelly does not make it better to be honest.

Still not reconsidering it as you see.

Rodriguez is a very smart man, a smart wheelsucker who knows what he is capable of and to be fair, he is the best at it. And I am not judging him on that to be fair, at least he attacks.

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, misguided as I think it is.

But, read what i said about Kelly a little more carefully. I didn't compare Rodriguez to Kelly, I said the ride was in the style of Kelly or Gilbert.

Wheelsucking in my book is the kind of riding Bruyneel displayed in Liege in the Tour. It's when a rider who is capable of contributing chooses not to, They just sit on their opponent and let them wear themselves out and then jump them in the last few metres. Rodriguez doesn't do this. He leaves it late but he is simply playing to his strengths. He has a good jump and the ability to make an attack stick on a climb more than a couple of km from the finish. If he made the big attacks you seem to expect he'd never place let alone win. What's the point in that?
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