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'The Old Contador is gone' Claim

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'The Old Contador is gone' Claim

24 Feb 2013 17:28

Yes, i'm a fan. If this needs to go the clinic, alright then although that's really not the aim of this.

This is getting ridiculous, all these claims that Contador is not the same anymore as in '09 since you know what...

Some here even say Contador will never be the same as he was in the giro '11. Without going into clinic-mode but 'it' already happened then. Ridiculous, Contador has as much reason to 'clinic' now than he has in '11. Seriously what has changed since then?:confused:

I can get the argument of '09 but he was so superior in the giro '11 that it was pretty obvious he was at that same level, maybe even better as Contador claims himself.

In an interview Contador himself stated that he wanted to be better than in the giro '11. He even broke his training record (last year) that he had broke just before the giro '11.

Obviously these are things we can't verify but since when is Contador the big talker? He always talks down his own changes.

Remember the "i'm fat, don't expect much" in san luis last year. He won 2 mountain stages.

If he really is not the same anymore, would he say all this?

You may argue that but give the man a fair chance at least instead of all this doom-talking. I understand that it's forum where we discuss cycling but is there really a significant sign that supports this claim?

Oh no but look at the vuelta of 2012 (which he won). He couldn't drop purito, thus he's not the same anymore :o

He had 1 year no competition. Ok 6 days in san luis and 1 day in spain but that's it. Prior to that his last race was the tour '11 so pretty much 13 months no competition.

How was basso in his first GT after his return? how was valverde? Heck how was armstrong? Ok maybe I shouldn't use that one :o

I don't remember correctly but vino his performance in the vuelta of '09 wasn't superb either, right?

The fact is that your first GT won't be easy especially if you only rode freaking eneco tour...

Now Contador lost in Oman, thus he will lose the tour. Ridiculous. It's not a super sign but what about february and a 1 week stage race?

No, let's reject that.

What do you think about all this talk? You think it's justified? You think i'm being a butthurt fan?

Discuss.
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User avatar Miburo
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24 Feb 2013 17:32

Honestly, so far I think that this can be discussed fully in the clinic or the relevant discussion thread ;)

It's not exactly the first time that we have discussed this topic.
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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24 Feb 2013 17:49

I don't mingle in those discussions normally because they are too ridicolous. But now I will react, anyone making conclusions that Contador is over the top based on the Vuelta last year and Oman this year are way too early with that. And I don't see a single sign that Contador is worse than before. If he can win the Vuelta with barely any competition in the legs then that says it all to me
BYOP88 wrote:Great to see that Porte has rediscovered his 2010/11 climbing form. Hope he can keep it for the rest of the Tour and year.
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24 Feb 2013 17:53

These discussions already popped up before his suspension... getting beaten on an uphill finish in Algarve by Cummings, that sort of thing.

A few months later he absolutely destroyed the Giro.
theyoungest
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24 Feb 2013 17:53

Miburo wrote:Yes, i'm a fan. If this needs to go the clinic, alright then although that's really not the aim of this.

This is getting ridiculous, all these claims that Contador is not the same anymore as in '09 since you know what...

Why the hell you treat it in a so jealous manner? Other riders don't sit on their hands. They work hard 'cos they want to be the best. Probably an on form someone will be stronger than an on form Contador in July. If one doesn't find it normal (which is completely unhealthy to me), it is purely one's fan problem.

[QUOTe=theYoungest]getting beaten on an uphill finish in Algarve by Cummings, that sort of thing.

A few months later he absolutely destroyed the Giro.
[/QUOTE]
Totally incomparable examples. He fought against Froome and Nibali. That is always a principal competition where none of them want to show any weaknesses; especially it related to Contador. If he had been able to, he would have killed himself and won, because that would be quite valuable. Everyone need some psychological pressure in advance no matter what palmares one has. It is quite laughable to consider Froome or Evans prepared better than Contador in this part of the season.
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24 Feb 2013 18:01

i think giro 2011 level wasn't close to 2009 level. that astana 09 contador was in my opinion the best ever one
i have a strong feeling that alberto in tour 2013 will be better than in 2009 though

there's no reason to claim yet that the old contador is gone. but after le tour, we'll know for sure.
Vino 4ever
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24 Feb 2013 18:09

airstream wrote:Totally incomparable examples. He fought against Froome and Nibali. That is always a principal competition where none of them want to show any weaknesses; especially it related to Contador. If he had been able to, he would have killed himself and won, because that would be quite valuable. Everyone need some psychological pressure in advance no matter what palmares one has. It is quite laughable to consider Froome or Evans prepared better than Contador in this part of the season.

It is comparable in the sense that people draw conclusions far too quickly. And these explosive attacks Contador did in Oman, if Evans and Froome had followed them they'd blown up as well. For Contador it's part testing his rivals, part training. In July he'll make those attacks stick. In the Tirreno he'll already be better, and won't do pointless attacks at the bottom of a climb.
theyoungest
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24 Feb 2013 18:09

Contador will be fine in the Tour, but he will need to battle extra hard in other races.
Dazed and Confused
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24 Feb 2013 18:10

In my opinion this is due to his Vuelta performance, where he was inferior with respect to his past standards. However i think that it was due to the lack of racing before the start of the race, and this year he will be fine.

I also think however that he will never reach again his 09 Tour performance, because that was his phisical best, and now that he is in the 30s his maximum is a bit inferior, he will be more like Tour 10, Giro 11.
Ivan Basso ha un altro passo!!! Ivan Basso ha un altro passo!!!
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24 Feb 2013 18:18

The old Contador, circa 2011 Giro, is gone. I've said it many times since last year. IMO its part (lack of) juice and part age. Don't ask me the percentages.

It doesn't mean he won't win more GTs as he's one of the smartest and experienced GT racers out there.
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24 Feb 2013 18:20

theyoungest wrote:It is comparable in the sense that people draw conclusions far too quickly. And these explosive attacks Contador did in Oman, if Evans and Froome had followed them they'd blown up as well. For Contador it's part testing his rivals, part training. In July he'll make those attacks stick. In the Tirreno he'll already be better, and won't do pointless attacks at the bottom of a climb.


Nonetheless, Cummings and Froome is absolutely different grade of contention. Evans dropped for obvious reason. Froome rather felt comfortable and controlled the situation unless you think that Contador could win the stage where he destroyed himself at 4-5% winded road alone. For his rivals, it is the same testing and training. No one target Tour of Oman to win necessarily.

Contador has huge experience and he doesn't do anything in vain. I think he did those attacks because hoped they could work. It was not fun from him]

I don't quite get what 'that Contador' means since a rider can be estimated only under the angle of his rivals. As to the Giro 2011, such a thing is impossible in the Tour by default.

Miburo wrote:Discuss

You simply should shift your attitude to more democratic one. There are other riders who can win too. If Froome wins, it will be a sensation in no way. Surely, you can repeat 'when contador is a giro form, no one can touch him' like autotraining, but it is just attempts to loathe yourself. Btw as 2 Tirreno people voted with a very slight Froome's advantage. Contador got lots of voices too. Why are u unhappy with that?
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24 Feb 2013 18:47

Bertie's most dominating performances were often due to a lack of top level competition such as Rasmussen provided in 2007 and Andy in 2010. I expect Froome to be close to that but if he can't match those guys in the mountains, the time trial won't get him to the top step.

But maybe everyone will be too worn out from the Spring campaigns for it to matter.
phanatic
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24 Feb 2013 18:57

phanatic wrote:Bertie's most dominating performances were often due to a lack of top level competition such as Rasmussen provided in 2007 and Andy in 2010. I expect Froome to be close to that but if he can't match those guys in the mountains, the time trial won't get him to the top step.

But maybe everyone will be too worn out from the Spring campaigns for it to matter.


those guys?
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24 Feb 2013 19:13

cineteq wrote:It doesn't mean he won't win more GTs as he's one of the smartest and experienced GT racers out there.

Agreed he's one all the GT's since his return. :)
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24 Feb 2013 19:16

I think AC main weapon against his rivals is his recovery. He destroyed JRod with an endless amount of attacks this Vuelta, and I suspect an even strnger AC will do the same this tour
"I know how to ride my bike" - Nibali

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9LBsWCNE9I

Vuelta 06 - the greatest gt in history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TQdI7csHs
User avatar Vino attacks everyone
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24 Feb 2013 19:18

Miburo wrote:Yes, i'm a fan. If this needs to go the clinic, alright then although that's really not the aim of this.

This is getting ridiculous, all these claims that Contador is not the same anymore as in '09 since you know what...

Some here even say Contador will never be the same as he was in the giro '11. Without going into clinic-mode but 'it' already happened then. Ridiculous, Contador has as much reason to 'clinic' now than he has in '11. Seriously what has changed since then?:confused:

I can get the argument of '09 but he was so superior in the giro '11 that it was pretty obvious he was at that same level, maybe even better as Contador claims himself.

In an interview Contador himself stated that he wanted to be better than in the giro '11. He even broke his training record (last year) that he had broke just before the giro '11.

Obviously these are things we can't verify but since when is Contador the big talker? He always talks down his own changes.

Remember the "i'm fat, don't expect much" in san luis last year. He won 2 mountain stages.

If he really is not the same anymore, would he say all this?

You may argue that but give the man a fair chance at least instead of all this doom-talking. I understand that it's forum where we discuss cycling but is there really a significant sign that supports this claim?

Oh no but look at the vuelta of 2012 (which he won). He couldn't drop purito, thus he's not the same anymore :o

He had 1 year no competition. Ok 6 days in san luis and 1 day in spain but that's it. Prior to that his last race was the tour '11 so pretty much 13 months no competition.

How was basso in his first GT after his return? how was valverde? Heck how was armstrong? Ok maybe I shouldn't use that one :o

I don't remember correctly but vino his performance in the vuelta of '09 wasn't superb either, right?

The fact is that your first GT won't be easy especially if you only rode freaking eneco tour...

Now Contador lost in Oman, thus he will lose the tour. Ridiculous. It's not a super sign but what about february and a 1 week stage race?

No, let's reject that.

What do you think about all this talk? You think it's justified? You think i'm being a butthurt fan?

Discuss.


Basso, Valverde, Armstrong

not just [SIZE="5"]C[/SIZE]ontador

btw tells a lot....
When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking.
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User avatar Capablanca and me
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24 Feb 2013 19:22

Capablanca and me wrote:Basso, Valverde, Armstrong

not just [SIZE="5"]C[/SIZE]ontador

btw tells a lot....


Not sure I understand :confused:
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
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24 Feb 2013 19:26

LaFlorecita wrote:Not sure I understand :confused:

Comeback strength vs. pre ban/retirement strength
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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24 Feb 2013 19:29

Netserk wrote:Comeback strength vs. pre ban/retirement strength


But what about the Bolded Capital Letters :confused: by the way Piti seems very strong still.
"The second place is not good."
The great Alberto Contador :p
User avatar LaFlorecita
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24 Feb 2013 19:30

Basso = not quite robo Basso, but still had a year or 2 as a top gt rider after his comeback

Valverde = to early to say yet, but what we saw in the Vuelta was VERY promising to say atleast.

Armstrong = old
"I know how to ride my bike" - Nibali

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9LBsWCNE9I

Vuelta 06 - the greatest gt in history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TQdI7csHs
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