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'The Old Contador is gone' Claim

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25 Feb 2013 06:31

Afrank wrote:All of Contador's GT performances that have been sub-par compared to his best performances he has had a justifiable reason for them being sub-par. So I see no reason why he can't still perform at a level we have seen in the past.
I don't expect him to be performing to the level we saw in 2009 and 2011, but I think he can easily get to a very good level; not domination level but not 2011 Tour or 2012 Vuelta (where he couldn't drop Purito) level either.


Why do you think he won't have the giro 2011 level?
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25 Feb 2013 07:01

I wonder to read your opinions guys what exactly you mean by 'the 2011 Giro level'. Just the difference between Contador and others?

Miburo, do you admit that Rodriguez and Froome are equal to Contador climbers today? Realistically. Without looking back at 2009.
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25 Feb 2013 08:46

airstream wrote:I wonder to read your opinions guys what exactly you mean by 'the 2011 Giro level'. Just the difference between Contador and others?

Miburo, do you admit that Rodriguez and Froome are equal to Contador climbers today? Realistically. Without looking back at 2009.


Being able to put out the same numbers, and the ability to sustain his attack for as long as in that Giro.
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25 Feb 2013 09:10

Netserk wrote:Being able to put out the same numbers, and the ability to sustain his attack for as long as in that Giro.

OK, by and large it is the the same things because he won't be able to put out those numbers until he can't drop everyone.
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25 Feb 2013 09:22

I never really understand the argument that because he was not racing he was going to struggle to find his best form in vuelta, it is not as if he was injured and could not train, but much of the new thought is that you do not race to train.

The other point is that people who had been racing all season would have been feeling the effects at the end of the season.
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25 Feb 2013 09:26

2011 Giro is an overrated ride. It had zero competition. He only took a minute or so to Rujano in the mountains. Rujano. IMO the 2007 Tour was his best race, with help from Rasmussen.
Also in 2009, but his only solos were on two short climbs. Nothing near PdB, Peyresourde or Aubisque from 2007 (again, in tandem)
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25 Feb 2013 09:34

airstream wrote:OK, by and large it is the the same things because he won't be able to put out those numbers until he can't drop everyone.


I truly don't understand what you just said there :confused:

Would you be so kind to explain it to me? :)
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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25 Feb 2013 09:34

McLovin wrote:He only took a minute or so to Rujano in the mountains. Rujano.
More like 7...
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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25 Feb 2013 09:35

McLovin wrote:2011 Giro is an overrated ride. It had zero competition. He only took a minute or so to Rujano in the mountains. Rujano. IMO the 2007 Tour was his best race, with help from Rasmussen.
Also in 2009, but his only solos were on two short climbs. Nothing near PdB, Peyresourde or Aubisque from 2007 (again, in tandem)


:confused::confused:

I think you have him confused with another Colombian ;)
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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25 Feb 2013 09:47

Montevergine di Mercogliano - st
Etna - Rujano +3s
Grossglockner st
Zoncolan - Rujano + 1.33
Gardeccia - Rujano + 44s
Macugnaga Rujano + 2.20 (I missed this first time i count)
Sestrieres - Contador + 1.15

That's 3.15. I didn't count the MTT.
Still not great in my opinion, if I didn't missed something.
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25 Feb 2013 09:47

Eshnar wrote:More like 7...


50 sec at Etna, about 1'40 (?) at GrossGlockner, '5 at Zoncolan, '10 at Gardeccia. I'm looking into consideration the time gained over the main contenders. And yet '40 was added up in MTT though it is a bit different genre.
Going solo Contador gained the time only on Gardeccia stage.

Oh, I have been beaten )
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25 Feb 2013 09:52

airstream wrote:50 sec at Etna, about 1'40 (?) at GrossGlockner, '5 at Zoncolan, '10 at Gardeccia. I'm looking into consideration the time gained over the main contenders. And yet '40 was added up in MTT though it is a bit different genre.
Going solo Contador gained the time only on Gardeccia stage.

Oh, I have been beaten )

I was talking about Rujano
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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25 Feb 2013 09:54

McLovin wrote:Montevergine di Mercogliano - st
Etna - Rujano +3s
Grossglockner st
Zoncolan - Rujano + 1.33
Gardeccia - Rujano + 44s
Macugnaga Rujano + 2.20 (I missed this first time i count)
Sestrieres - Contador + 1.15

That's 3.15. I didn't count the MTT.

But you did count the Sestriere stage where Rujano was allowed to do what he wanted....
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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25 Feb 2013 09:54

Eshnar wrote:I was talking about Rujano


Ah, if Contador relies on 7 minutes over Rujano to win the Tour, I give up :)
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25 Feb 2013 09:57

airstream wrote:Ah, if Contador relies on 7 minutes over Rujano to win the Tour, I give up :)

One could also say he relies on the minutes he took on Nibali without the help of 100 kms of TTing...
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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25 Feb 2013 09:59

Eshnar wrote:One could also say he relies on the minutes he took on Nibali without the help of 100 kms of TTing...


It is all about Wiggins, not about Froome. But anyway I don't know any GC guy who would attack having 3 minutes reserve, strongest team and one more TT in the bag.
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25 Feb 2013 09:59

Eshnar wrote:But you did count the Sestriere stage where Rujano was allowed to do what he wanted....


Yeah, now we are going back to the "what if" land. My point was that it wasn't such a good show. Rujano is a one trick pony, Giro and just Giro. The Tour competition would eat him alive. And still, was with Contador on those such 'great attacks'.
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25 Feb 2013 10:00

I too am unsure that Contador could have performed much better in last year's Vuelta, had he not been banned.

T-A will be pretty telling already, IMO. My money is on Froome.
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25 Feb 2013 10:01

McLovin wrote:Yeah, now we are going back to the "what if" land. My point was that it wasn't such a good show. Rujano is a one trick pony, Giro and just Giro. The Tour competition would eat him alive. And still, was with Contador on those such 'great attacks'.

Isn't this thread all about 'what if's? :confused:
'The Tour competition would eat him alive' is a pretty big "what if" too, since that never happened.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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25 Feb 2013 10:04

Rujano vs Contador:

Stage 8 (Tropea): 23
Stage 9 (Etna): 3
Stage 13 (Grossglockner): 0
Stage 14 (Zoncolan): 1'37 (97)
Stage 15 (Gardeccia): 44
Stage 16 (MTT): 39
Stage 19 (Macugnaga): 2'20 (140)
Stage 20 (Sestriere): -1'15 (-75)

Total time = 271 seconds = 4'31
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
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