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Has WADA gone too far in the Hamilton case?

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Has WADA gone too far in the Hamilton case?

17 Jul 2009 02:59

I think they have. What is the point of wasting energy and time on trying to ban Hamilton for life? He already accepted his guilt.

I have never been a fan of Tyler Hamilton but in this case and taking into account his illness, I think WADA has gone too far.

Having said that, I want to know the opinion of others.

Thanks.

Here is the link:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hamilton-responds-to-wadas-life-ban-request
User avatar Escarabajo
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17 Jul 2009 03:19

yeah i think its excessive most certainly. he accepted an 8 year ban which effectively ends his career thats enough beyond that is cruel imo.
User avatar forty four
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17 Jul 2009 03:31

Yes - it is just a waste of money and grand standing on WADA's part. Eight years or life will not make a difference to Hamilton's career. His career is over regardless of the length of the suspension.
"If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
User avatar elapid
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17 Jul 2009 03:35

maybe i'll be the first to say no. when you have a guy like tyler hamilton that's confirmed everyone's worst suspicions about professional cycling again and again, you have every right to try and keep him as far away from your sport as possible for as long as possible. when you mess up that many times i don't have a lot of sympathy.

though i do agree it's largely grandstanding. homeboy ain't coming back at 45.
User avatar ilillillli
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17 Jul 2009 03:38

What does the ban entail? Is it just a ban from competition, or more like what Pete Rose received from MLB for betting on baseball games (total banishment from the sport)?
gjdavis60
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They are making an example

17 Jul 2009 04:08

I don't agree. They are making an example of him, publicly, to show everyone what they can and will do.

As one poster asked, I do believe that the lifetime ban forbids him from any cycling activity i.e. coaching, consulting, racing, etc.

It is not like he is going to come back from an 8 year ban so why make it lifetime other than using him to show that WADA is serious and powerful.

Yes, he was on the juice like everyone else. I might catch some flak from another member (workingclassZERO) like last time for saying this...but lets just sweep this under the rug and move on. It's already over and done with at the original suspension.
User avatar Turd Ferguson
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17 Jul 2009 04:50

Turd Ferguson wrote:I don't agree. They are making an example of him, publicly, to show everyone what they can and will do.

As one poster asked, I do believe that the lifetime ban forbids him from any cycling activity i.e. coaching, consulting, racing, etc.

It is not like he is going to come back from an 8 year ban so why make it lifetime other than using him to show that WADA is serious and powerful.

Yes, he was on the juice like everyone else. I might catch some flak from another member (workingclassZERO) like last time for saying this...but lets just sweep this under the rug and move on. It's already over and done with at the original suspension.


Turd - I would normally be like "workinclass.." and be totally opposed to sweeping stuff under the rug too. However this is just WADA BS and is about publicity.
I have no sympathy for Tyler - he cheated, twice, or should I say got caught twice. He is out of the sport.

Given the circumstances of his case the 8 years is a sufficent punishment.
The life sentences should be for the DS's, coaches and medical personnel who facilitate and encourage doping not for a guy who admits his offence for a not very effective PED.
User avatar Dr. Maserati
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17 Jul 2009 05:22

No - he should get the ban. He shouldn't be fighting it?

My only concern is that they waste resources prosecuting a guy that will never race again anyway. They could spend this money on something a little more useful.
User avatar 180mmCrank
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17 Jul 2009 05:23

When I first read the headline, I thought "Why?" and that WADA was barking up the wrong tree and wasting time and money.

But after I read the comments from his attorney, I'm pondering it. It's equally frustrating that Tyler still seems to be in full denial, and sent his attorney out to make the DHEA test sound like it was accidental. If Tyler would have stood up and asked what more they want from him, and isn't it enough that his career is over and in ruin, then I might see things a little different.

But Dr. Mas is right. The people they really, really need to go after is the support. Stop placing full blame on the rider. There is no possible way Tyler doped as much as he did on his own. No way. He had at least one soigner and physician (mostly Fuentes) helping. Plus a connection, if not more than one along the line above that, or in addition to that. I'd say yes, Tyler needs to be kept out of the sport until by every indication he's honest and in integrity. Eight years, longer I don't know. But the people that assisted him and supplied him are the ones who belong banned or life, and probably in jail.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
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17 Jul 2009 05:24

It is a symbolic gesture meant to demonstrate WADA's unwavering commitment to clean sport. In this sense it's merely the professional thing to do. At the human level, however, if Hamilton is indeed as emotionally sick as he claims and since he has already accepted an 8 year ban which effectively puts an end to his troubled career, then WADA's gesture is in poor taste.

So it depends on how you look at the situation, and whether you place more emphasis on the professional or human side of the issue.
User avatar rhubroma
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17 Jul 2009 05:42

I tend to think that it is BS primarily because one of the problems that cycling has is severely different results for riders doing the same thing. The system reeks of corruption. It is ridiculous that at the same time WADA is needlessly going after Hamilton, the UCI and ASO have done everything but roll out the red carpet for Armstrong, Valverde continues to race, no team will hire Heras, and Basso just raced the Giro. How can anyone have any faith in the process with a farce like that?
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
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17 Jul 2009 05:49

BroDeal wrote:... It is ridiculous that at the same time WADA is needlessly going after Hamilton, the UCI and ASO have done everything but roll out the red carpet for Armstrong, Valverde continues to race, no team will hire Heras, and Basso just raced the Giro. How can anyone have any faith in the process with a farce like that?

All good points, especially when you consider that those riders don't all take the same path. Armstrong, like Hamilton is in full denial and defensive, Valverde is using legal means, Heras was pretty contrite though didn't fully admit to anything, and Basso confessed, though didn't finger anyone. So what do the UCI/WADA expect the riders to do?
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
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17 Jul 2009 06:20

Alpe d'Huez wrote:So what do the UCI/WADA expect the riders to do?


I don't know. I think it would breed cynicism and contempt for the process in the riders. I don't see how we can expect anything good to come out of such a clearly flawed and unfair process.

Think of someone like Zabriskie, who was good friends with Landis. They used to live together in Europe during the season. Zabriskie watched Landis get destroyed. The Z-Man's performance dropped from being one of the best time trialists in the world to being merely a good time trialist. He then moved to the "clean" Slipstream. Through all this he had to have been thinking that Landis' fate could have just as well have been his own. That sort of thing does not build any trust in the system.

T. Dekker has an even worse situation. He will be crucified because of retrospectively tested urine, and he will know that the same UCI that is nailing him to the cross excused similar evidence about Armstrong.
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
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17 Jul 2009 06:33

BroDeal wrote:I tend to think that it is BS primarily because one of the problems that cycling has is severely different results for riders doing the same thing. The system reeks of corruption. It is ridiculous that at the same time WADA is needlessly going after Hamilton, the UCI and ASO have done everything but roll out the red carpet for Armstrong, Valverde continues to race, no team will hire Heras, and Basso just raced the Giro. How can anyone have any faith in the process with a farce like that?


AWTA.



z
User avatar craig1985
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17 Jul 2009 07:54

unreal to see some sympathy for tyler
the damage to our sport the hamilton kid did _TWICE!

Tyler, the convicted doper, returned to cycling after a two-year ban and once again swooned the hearts of the American nation. At the Tour of California i stood beside s a small kid in a RR US champion’s jersey with Hamilton picture across the front .He was waving a flag in awe of the great race.

It took 6 weeks for Tyler to admit his positive test;
6 weeks of his team covering up for his lack of race starts with lies of flu;
6 weeks of the US anti doping agency knowing and saying nothing.
A further 6 weeks of that kid being proud of his hero and his shirt before another let down
Nothing will convince that kid or his parents that supporting a champion cyclist is a secure move.
All convicted dopers should be not only be banned for life from competition but also banned from working within cycling and polluting yet another generation.
The ban is to keep him away from the sport he has damaged. We dont need him in management.

,Tyler's Olympic medal should be returned. His US champion’s jersey should be handed to Garmin-Chipotle's Blake Caldwell who finished second to Hamilton last August and he should be forgotten. No talked about, dismissed lest the damage and media coverage be redirected against our sport more.
the truth.
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17 Jul 2009 09:07

BroDeal wrote:T. Dekker has an even worse situation. He will be crucified because of retrospectively tested urine, and he will know that the same UCI that is nailing him to the cross excused similar evidence about Armstrong.


I would love it if one day someone in Dekker's position publicly asked why he was getting fu**ed, whilst The Boss is exonerated for exactly the same thing.

Of course it would have to be someone who was prepared for lawsuits, permanent exclusion from cycling, abuse from the fan boys etc.

However, the question would be entirely valid.
Mongol_Waaijer
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17 Jul 2009 09:23

STATEMENT FROM CHRIS MANDERSON
ATTORNEY OF RECORD FOR TYLER HAMILTON

"Tyler Hamilton took Mitamins, an herbal anti-depressant, in a moment of crisis while out of competition, with no intention or possibility of enhancing his cycling performance. Despite that, the rules do not distinguish between an intentional doping violation and Tyler's attempt to self medicate for depression. Based on their protocol, USADA imposed the minimum eight-year penalty in this situation, which was within the acceptable range of sanctions established by the World Anti-Doping Code, and we accepted that so Tyler could focus on his health and his future.

Now, contrary to Tyler's settlement with USADA, WADA is pursuing a lifetime ban as if Tyler's self-medication for depression had been an intentional violation to boost performance. There is no reasonable basis to have the maximum penalty imposed upon Tyler Hamilton for taking an herbal anti-depressant that happened to contain DHEA. Tyler has been diagnosed with and is battling clinical depression, an illness which many people suffer from, and which took the life of his grandmother and has afflicted his mother and sister.

Even worse, WADA has stated that the 8 year sanction 'warrants scrutiny from an independent tribunal' because 'it was the result of an agreement between USADA and the athlete,' as though Tyler and USADA had somehow colluded in wrongdoing by agreeing to a sanction within the acceptable range under the WADA code. WADA did not even notify Tyler nor myself (Tyler's attorney of record) of its intent to pursue this action; we learned of it through the media.

WADA’s insistence on a lifetime ban against Tyler is a vindictive, personal and ruthless attempt to destroy a man who suffers from a serious illness, has ended his career, and has already accepted the penalty imposed upon him."

Chris Manderson
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
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17 Jul 2009 09:27

Mongol_Waaijer wrote:I would love it if one day someone in Dekker's position publicly asked why he was getting fu**ed, whilst The Boss is exonerated for exactly the same thing.

Of course it would have to be someone who was prepared for lawsuits, permanent exclusion from cycling, abuse from the fan boys etc.

However, the question would be entirely valid.


Dekker will be nailed to the cross, to use Bro's metaphor, becuase the UCI needs to demonstrate to an increasingly sceptical public, that things like retroactive testing and the bio-passport system will actually make signifiicant headway in its so-called war against doping.

He's Euorpean, doesn't have the celebritydom nor the US market passpartout of LA, and is thus the perfect candidate for the UCI to effect its plans to change everything, so that nothing changes. Like at Wall Street of late.
User avatar rhubroma
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17 Jul 2009 09:29

Mongol_Waaijer wrote:I would love it if one day someone in Dekker's position publicly asked why he was getting fu**ed, whilst The Boss is exonerated for exactly the same thing.

Of course it would have to be someone who was prepared for lawsuits, permanent exclusion from cycling, abuse from the fan boys etc.

However, the question would be entirely valid.

but Rasmussen, said something like that.

He said "now I have a new respect for Armstrong and all he went thru" which was hilarious :D

But then chicken got tossed.
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17 Jul 2009 10:15

I'm surprised Hamilton hasn't reminded us that this is his 'first offense'. After all, his story is still that he never injected himself with another person's blood and that he never had anything to do with Fuentes, and that he deserved to keep his olympic medal. From WADA's perspective, Hamilton did not deserve his medal but held on to it due to a technicality, he tested positive at the Vuelta and he was one of the riders involved in Puerto, which makes it likely he doped at other times as well. This would mean his recent positive could, from an ethical perspective, be considered his 3rd or 4th offense.

Confessing can help. Basso got off relatively because of it, and Meirhaege was also able to save face (although the case of Ben Berden is an opposite example). If there's a pattern, I think WADA is targeting the riders who keep fighting the hardest. But I don't think it is going to help Hamilton at this point - his conduct in the past has simply made him an enemy of WADA. Perhaps he could make money by publishing a book and telling all?

We should also keep in mind that there is a possibility that Hamilton is lying yet again. His positive may be for a substance present in a homeopathic anti-depressant, but we will have to take his rather unreliable word for it that that is the full and only cause of his positive test.
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