Log in:  

Register

Marco Pantani?

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

15 Feb 2014 11:13

This thread has devolved into one of the worst pieces of propaganda that I have ever read.

Did Pantani have the 52% hematocrit?

Absolutely.

Did he need to showboat to Madonna di Campiglio with 4 minutes in hand on GC?

Absolutely not.

Did the "mafia" (who by the way?) stop him from going to Fuentes?

Absolutely not.

The argument that it was damning for UCI to pull a rider from the race with a 52% hematocrit is idiotic in the extreme.
User avatar roundabout
Senior Member
 
Posts: 11,865
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 11:43

15 Feb 2014 14:40

roundabout wrote:This thread has devolved into one of the worst pieces of propaganda that I have ever read.

Did Pantani have the 52% hematocrit?

Absolutely.

Did he need to showboat to Madonna di Campiglio with 4 minutes in hand on GC?

Absolutely not.

Did the "mafia" (who by the way?) stop him from going to Fuentes?

Absolutely not.

The argument that it was damning for UCI to pull a rider from the race with a 52% hematocrit is idiotic in the extreme.


You don't get the point about the UCI protecting Armstrong in spite of what it didn't feel were such strong interests with Pantani. This isn't propaganda, but realpolitik and economic interests. Pantani seems to have realized this and he never got over it. And this is why many in Italy doubt that the official truth is comprehensive. Live in your black-and-white world, though reality is other. Given the outcome, while nobody is advocating him as a model of excellence, the terrible truth is that behind it all lay a shakespearian drama that wound up in a perverse fatality on the one hand, and apothesis on the other. At least that much is clear. While it's the weaker or less potent party that always gets crushed.
User avatar rhubroma
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6,110
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 14:31

15 Feb 2014 14:50

At least I don't try to make a greek tragedy out of one of few occasions when there was at least an effort to enforce the rules.

And yes, life is unfair.

Edit: not greek, shakespearian

Edit 2: and the only perverse thing is your implication that Pantani should have been left alone to continue doping because he could not get over suffering the consequences of being uncovered as a cheat.

You are one disgusting individual.
User avatar roundabout
Senior Member
 
Posts: 11,865
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 11:43

15 Feb 2014 16:51

roundabout wrote:At least I don't try to make a greek tragedy out of one of few occasions when there was at least an effort to enforce the rules.

And yes, life is unfair.

Edit: not greek, shakespearian

Edit 2: and the only perverse thing is your implication that Pantani should have been left alone to continue doping because he could not get over suffering the consequences of being uncovered as a cheat.

You are one disgusting individual.


No I don't imply this, but that not everybody was not left alone, Greek or Shakesperian (edit), however this may be.

What I am implying is that someone who wasn't is dead, while someone who was, until exceptional circumstances no longer made that possible, was made an untouchable and hero of the sport. The realpolitik and economic interests behind such a scenario are thus what's really the problem in the grand scheme of things - and not simply the doping.

Either everybody is given the same treatment or doping should be legalized, but since that presents ethical problems then everyone must be given the same treatment. To put it in the realm of fanfare: if Italy's party needed to be ruined at Campiglio in 99 in the name of the rules, then America's party should also have been ruined because of a back-dated prescription during the Tour that same year. That there were two measures given to the same weight only means that everything was merely a hypocritical farce and, in hindsight, it would have been better for Pantani, humanly before sport's wise, had he been given the same umbrella as Armstrong. Given that an umbrella was indeed offered to the American.

Disgusting though this may make me in your eyes, it is your lack of intelligence that's what's vexing, and your blockheaded ability to see things only in black and white.
User avatar rhubroma
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6,110
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 14:31

15 Feb 2014 21:06

rhubroma wrote:Another revelation was reported in today's la Gazzetta dello Sport in which it's said that Tonina, Marco's mom, wants to meet Armstrong and have a little chat:

"People are following us, they're not stupid. I've never given up and there will be some new revelations. I haven't got anything against Armstrong, they were all prey to the system, however, Marco had always said, he'd left a maglia rosa with this written on it: "what really hurts is Armstrong." I'd like to encounter him. He must confess. He needs to name names."

That is quite interesting. Please keep us posted (in whatever may be the most appropriate thread) if this develops any further.
User avatar Granville57
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,454
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 16:29

15 Feb 2014 21:12

Granville57 wrote:That is quite interesting. Please keep us posted (in whatever may be the most appropriate thread) if this develops any further.


I certainly shall, if anything does in fact develop.
User avatar rhubroma
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6,110
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 14:31

15 Feb 2014 22:31

Video of unveiling the statue of Pantani by his mother.

http://www.espn.co.uk/cycling/sport/video_audio/283723.html?genre=51;sport=24
User avatar gooner
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,496
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 14:18

16 Feb 2014 08:17

rhubroma wrote:I certainly shall, if anything does in fact develop.


Frankly, most of it sounds like cheap PR in the run up to a film release.

As with the fellow Armstrong, its definitely time to deliver real information.
Dazed and Confused
Senior Member
 
Posts: 9,898
Joined: 27 Jan 2012 23:14

16 Feb 2014 08:43

Dazed and Confused wrote:Frankly, most of it sounds like cheap PR in the run up to a film release.

As with the fellow Armstrong, its definitely time to deliver real information.


Cheap PR though it very well may be, Tonina certainly couldn't care less about that and is firmly convinced that there were parties working behind the scenes that have more to tell about how cycling operated at the time of her son's downfall and death, which have to this day remained silent.

She believes thus that "real information" has been willfully concealed and that, apparently from her latest statements, that Armstrong might be a conduit to it being revealed, and therefore wishes to confront him. Whether or not she is merely delusional about the existence of such information, can only of course be verified by its disclosure.

It's a mother's fight over the memory of her son, and given the hypocrisy and omertà that has reigned over the sport, she's at least got every right to pursue it.
User avatar rhubroma
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6,110
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 14:31

16 Feb 2014 12:20

manafana wrote:for me he was sometimes as bad as Armstrong didn't quiet go as far as him or have as big business interests but he did bully and he did always have this sole focus on himself


no he didn't unless you can come with any proof.
User avatar Ryo Hazuki
Senior Member
 
Posts: 15,120
Joined: 31 Mar 2010 13:50

16 Feb 2014 14:28

Please refrain from all the doping talk. There is a forum for that and this one is Not it!!!!
Carol S.
~~~~
Alberto Contador: "And yes, it is true that for me it's the same to finish second or 10th."

Vincezo Nibali joins Anquetil, Gimondi, Merckx, Hinault and Contador as only the 6th winner of all 3 Grand Tours! Bravo Lo Squalo!
User avatar Carols
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,792
Joined: 20 Mar 2010 15:20
Location: PA, USA

16 Feb 2014 14:53

One takes a week off to change nation and the PRR section goes mental.

Why can't certain people grasp the rule that here doping talk is forbidden? Is that so hard?
There's a Pantani thread in the Clinic. Bring it there.

Oh, also insulting each other is forbidden, mind you.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6,526
Joined: 24 Mar 2011 11:25
Location: Frankfurt am Main

Previous

Return to Professional road racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], dubexcalibur, Google Adsense [Bot], Jelantik, Mayomaniac, pjthom22, Pricey_sky, SeriousSam, slim charles, Yahoo [Bot] and 39 guests

Back to top