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Marco Pantani?

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

04 Aug 2009 20:31

Thoughtforfood wrote:No, I wedged YOUR inconsistent opinions about such issues as you raise about Mr Pantani into the thread. It had nothing to do with Lance. It had everything to do with your glaring hypocrisy.

As for Mr Pantani, I think he was a supremely talented cyclist with a very sad story.


I would be delighted to see you expand beyond innuendo for once and actually articulate something coherent. Please expose my inconsistent opinion and glaring hypocrisy... if you can. And oh yeah, try to stay on the subject at hand. I'm pretty sure that your love of Lance is an extraneous factor here.
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04 Aug 2009 20:34

VeloFidelis wrote:I would be delighted to see you expand beyond innuendo for once and actually articulate something coherent. Please expose my inconsistent opinion and glaring hypocrisy... if you can. And oh yeah, try to stay on the subject at hand. I'm pretty sure that your love of Lance is an extraneous factor here.


Got Irony?


Anyway, you have defended Mr Armstrong and you know it. My point is that if you are unable to defend Mr Pantani in the same manner, you are a hypocrite.

Quick enough for ya?

(please feel free to contend that you have never defended Mr Armstrong in any way. I don't even have to dig up the quotes for anyone who has posted here for over a month to know that you are full of it if that is indeed your contention.)
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04 Aug 2009 20:39

Thoughtforfood wrote:No, it wasn't even a wet match. Sorry.

Why live vicariously, throw out your own barbs.


Easy there, Lee Harvey. We are here to chat up cycling, ya know.
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04 Aug 2009 20:52

Thoughtforfood wrote:Got Irony?


Anyway, you have defended Mr Armstrong and you know it. My point is that if you are unable to defend Mr Pantani in the same manner, you are a hypocrite.

Quick enough for ya?

(please feel free to contend that you have never defended Mr Armstrong in any way. I don't even have to dig up the quotes for anyone who has posted here for over a month to know that you are full of it if that is indeed your contention.)


You get your one shot to stay on subject and you can't perform. I am disappointed but not surprised. Have you spoken with anyone professionally regarding your Armstrong fixation?

The rest of us here were speaking about Pantani. And I believe your mission had something to do with exposing, what was it again?... oh yeah inconsistency and hypocrisy. Tell you what... in my misguided sense of fairness, I'll give you another shot.

Please don't let us down.
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04 Aug 2009 20:55

C'mon guys we can leave LA out of this. There are a couple of threads today that have desended in to the usual - I think that is a real shame and a blight on the forum.

VeloFidelis wrote:.....For Pantani, we will never know the level of his talent because it was obscured by his demons. Pantani was a troubled man whose downward spiral was fueled by the blind passion the tifosi threw at him, and his own confusion of self image about whether he deserved it or not.

I think this is probably the best and most poignant quote of the thread.

For many of us who followed Pantani in his prime we were mesmorized by his attacking style and his climbing ability.
Of course we were ignorant to the real truth behind those performances. In fact it was not until well after his death before the scale of the abuse was highlighted.

It will always color his carreer.
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04 Aug 2009 21:14

VeloFidelis wrote:You get your one shot to stay on subject and you can't perform. I am disappointed but not surprised. Have you spoken with anyone professionally regarding your Armstrong fixation?

The rest of us here were speaking about Pantani. And I believe your mission had something to do with exposing, what was it again?... oh yeah inconsistency and hypocrisy. Tell you what... in my misguided sense of fairness, I'll give you another shot.

Please don't let us down.


Again, you have exposed your glaring hypocrisy all by your lonesome. All I did was highlight it. Sorry that got your panties all in a wad.

In other news, you keep bringing up Armstrong over and over. I keep bringing up you. Dang.
Thoughtforfood
 

04 Aug 2009 21:41

Thoughtforfood wrote:Again, you have exposed your glaring hypocrisy all by your lonesome. All I did was highlight it. Sorry that got your panties all in a wad.
.


OOooohh Too bad! And we all had such high hopes. It seems that while you have spent time completely redefining the word obtuse, you have also contributed no substance what so ever to your claims, and again refused to stay on point. Thanks for trying though!
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04 Aug 2009 21:47

VeloFidelis wrote:OOooohh Too bad! And we all had such high hopes. It seems that while you have spent time completely redefining the word obtuse, you have also contributed no substance what so ever to your claims, and again refused to stay on point. Thanks for trying though!


You know what, when I am wrong, I am wrong. I went back and searched your posts and I cannot find one that defends Lance. You defend that doping is part of sport and that will never change, but you never once specifically defended Lance.

I apologize, I was wrong for suggesting you were a hypocrite on the subject.
Thoughtforfood
 

04 Aug 2009 21:53

Thoughtforfood wrote:You know what, when I am wrong, I am wrong. I went back and searched your posts and I cannot find one that defends Lance. You defend that doping is part of sport and that will never change, but you never once specifically defended Lance.

I apologize, I was wrong for suggesting you were a hypocrite on the subject.


HOLY SH!T!!!

I apologize as well. We can all get a little juvenile around here some times, and I am as guilty as anyone.

Thank you!
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04 Aug 2009 21:57

WTF!?!?! .... mod's, MOD'S....there is something strange happening on the forum!
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04 Aug 2009 21:59

I'd like to admit that I was wrong too. I am very sorry for some of the things I said to a couple of the guys.
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04 Aug 2009 22:02

Ok..... I have had enough of this..... Scribe, Velo & TFF to the Clinic please, you all been selected for random drug control's.
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04 Aug 2009 22:14

Dr. Maserati wrote:Ok..... I have had enough of this..... Scribe, Velo & TFF to the Clinic please, you all been selected for random drug control's.


Post of the day!:D
Seems a lot of the contributors have grown a lot.

On the subject of Pantani. Loved to watch the guy out of the saddle.
The way he was singled out was unfair to say the least, when you look at what the other GT racers were doing at the time.
Unfortunately, he couldn't conquer his demons.
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04 Aug 2009 22:27

pantani was just fun to watch ride a bike. he went down hills as fast as anyone,
as well as up them. and the side story of his life only helps his legend.

all this make nice stuff is creeping me out. ;) :eek:
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04 Aug 2009 22:35

The answer to the guys question, Marco Pantani was a great racer and an Italian star in lots of ways.I saw him on talk shows(in Italian)I could not understand enough but his body language was that of a gentle guy.He attacked lots and it didn't always work out but the style points put him in the hearts and minds of people all over the world.Like lots of people his hair started to fall out and the facial hair and earrings made him look like a bad ***,or as bad as you can look as a mini man.His death was a terrible for the sport and lets people tell any story they want once he had died.He dealt with drugs and depression,more of both in his last years.Unlike some of these poster boys Lance and many others have nice things to say about the dead champion.
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Legends and such

04 Aug 2009 22:49

fatandfast wrote:The answer to the guys question, Marco Pantani was a great racer and an Italian star in lots of ways.I saw him on talk shows(in Italian)I could not understand enough but his body language was that of a gentle guy.He attacked lots and it didn't always work out but the style points put him in the hearts and minds of people all over the world.Like lots of people his hair started to fall out and the facial hair and earrings made him look like a bad ***,or as bad as you can look as a mini man.His death was a terrible for the sport and lets people tell any story they want once he had died.He dealt with drugs and depression,more of both in his last years.Unlike some of these poster boys Lance and many others have nice things to say about the dead champion.


Everybody loved how he activated a race. Unfortunately that has a Nascar similarity when it requires a rider to mortgage his life for some sparkly moments of fraudulent fame. I had an uneasy feeling when he and Senor 60 (Bjarne) attacked the way they did. You hope for such talent but are afraid of the truth. I think the truth killed Pantani.
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04 Aug 2009 23:21

Loved his attacking style! Cant get enough of it.

You guys should watch some of the videos on youtube with him, and then ull see what made him a star :)
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04 Aug 2009 23:28

Bala Verde wrote:I have always wondered, and maybe it's beyond anyone to tell for sure, but 'how talented' were some of these guys (ie also Basso, Ullrich), off the program?

In other words, could the top 10 of each GT in the 90s be a reflection of the top 10 greatest responders, and/or greatest risk takers? (This is not to say that they were mere pumped up amateurs, or 'donkeys', but there is a difference between a decent/good top 50 pro rider and an amazing top 10 pro rider)

I don't have a clue about his junior years, ie was he being dropped by others who were supposedly clean? I mean he has been riding his bike for a while, and some of his peers must have noticed some small transformations, if he wasn't already 'the greatest climber' in his youngster years...


Well... he was dropping Indurains in Giro 1994, when he was only 23 years old. I know I am going to get a hundred idiots telling me that he was using EPO, but before 1997 (when they set the 50% rule, which was garbage sin the average hematocrit is 34-38) pretty much everyone was using it since it was "legal".. I have heard he was a pretty good junior rider..
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04 Aug 2009 23:28

dimspace wrote:Its almost unexplainable.. There are some people you come across in life, in person, or through sport, etc, that you are just drawn too.. Pantani had that..

wether it was attitude, or personality, or style on a bike, or what i dont know.. There was just something about the guy that drew you in and you couldnt help yourself. He had an aura..

I cant even explain why he is such a legend, but he is..

good article here> http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/11

few snippets

"His exploits between 1994 and 2000 were sensational. He climbed like a man possessed, throwing races into chaos with his attacking style, and eschewing conservatism to attack on the most difficult of climbs with reckless aggression."

"For fans who love cycling, it is hard not to be inspired, even moved, by Pantani’s climbing exploits: the reckless attacks, the total domination of the toughest climbs. He personified the excitement of the mountains."

"Pantani’s dalliances with performance-enhancing drugs is likely not a unique case, as past and future revelations of doping in cycling in the 1990s will attest. His story, though, his tragedy seems unique: soaring to the highest levels of the sport, before crashing into despair, abandonment, and ultimately suicide. Did he make a Faustian pact, with Mephistopheles played by EPO, crooked doctors, and the pressure of professional competition? (Is Pantani the Dorian Gray of cycling?) Was the reward for his bargain the tremendous climbing power he attained, but at a heavy price?

But Pantani was seemingly conscious of his bargain and one of his reported quotes nicely sums up his own approach, as well as the issues raised earlier about performance enhancement. “In cycling,” he said, “there is not a culture of doping, but rather a culture of champions, meaning: self improvement. That means doing things that are forbidden, but that are only forbidden if they catch you.”"


+1. Nice summary. BTW, not having read this thread for a while, I burst out laughing reading TFF v VeloFidelis, then the Cavendish-Thor moment, and Dr. Maserati's commentary. Thanks for the entertainment!
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04 Aug 2009 23:46

Pantani...my favorite cyclist ever!! Let's have a thread on him every week...no, every day! Love watching him attack. The man is the definition of charisma; flair and panache. Until someone comes along to explode a race like he did, we're doomed to boring racing. I never get tired of watching his races.
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