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Re:

01 May 2016 13:04

python wrote:the chernobyl nuclear accident marks its 30th anniversary today...than was the fukushima. many experts still argue which one was worse.

one happened in the totalitarian, secretive state that lied and lied before the world become fully aware. while another occurred in a supposedly democratic state that lied even more. many may recall (or search on) my posts that followed the fukushima developments from day one and how obvious the tepco lies were even 5 y. ago.


each of the 2 commercial nuclear calamities released many times more radioactive material than the bomb dropped on hiroshima. it pressed some countries into gradual decommissioning of ALL reactors, while in many more others the nuclear commercial reactors are mushrooming (pun intended) literally.

why such a difference ?

it is a complex question going deep into cultural, commercial, political and emotional attitudes. let's take europe's 170 nukes as an example. while france leads the world in the nuclear-derived proportion (apr. 80%) and the swiss operate the oldest nuke on earth (almost 50 yo), the germans decided to go green all the way and actually made a huge progress along the way. adds to the complexity a somewhat poorly recognized in the west fact that the best and safest reactors are nowadays made in ................russia. yep, they rank #1 among the already signed new contracts and - which may be even more significant - those still planned.

regarding the last fact, some curious decisions have been made by the long-suffering ukraine. like to snub russia at any cost, mind you the uki reactors are ALL of soviet/russian designs, they recently decided to buy the nuclear fuel from westighouse. some say it is dangerous and stupid b/c the fuel accident analysis should be done by the reactor vendors. and so on.

obviously some are wise, some will always be stupid. but i am still a believer in the nuclear option.


I'd like to know how accurate the health reporting has been relating to Chernobyl as well. Unfortunately for Belarus at the time, the wind was blowing in the wrong direction while Kiev got lucky. There was an increase in thyroid cancers especially in children in both countries but the numbers did not seem to be very high and how much fallout settled in rivers and the water table ? The clean up workers who did not die soon after the accident were obviously the ones that were highest risk of dying of cancer and many did eventually.The sarcophagus for the reactor of course is only a short term fix and there are going to be ongoing issues and problems. I am in two minds about nuclear power but it seems for some people the risks are worth it re global warming. New reactors are still being built but building reactors in high risk earthquake zones does not seem to be too smart re Fukushima.
movingtarget
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Re: Re:

02 May 2016 10:31

movingtarget wrote:
python wrote:the chernobyl nuclear accident marks its 30th anniversary today...than was the fukushima. many experts still argue which one was worse.

one happened in the totalitarian, secretive state that lied and lied before the world become fully aware. while another occurred in a supposedly democratic state that lied even more. many may recall (or search on) my posts that followed the fukushima developments from day one and how obvious the tepco lies were even 5 y. ago.


each of the 2 commercial nuclear calamities released many times more radioactive material than the bomb dropped on hiroshima. it pressed some countries into gradual decommissioning of ALL reactors, while in many more others the nuclear commercial reactors are mushrooming (pun intended) literally.

why such a difference ?

it is a complex question going deep into cultural, commercial, political and emotional attitudes. let's take europe's 170 nukes as an example. while france leads the world in the nuclear-derived proportion (apr. 80%) and the swiss operate the oldest nuke on earth (almost 50 yo), the germans decided to go green all the way and actually made a huge progress along the way. adds to the complexity a somewhat poorly recognized in the west fact that the best and safest reactors are nowadays made in ................russia. yep, they rank #1 among the already signed new contracts and - which may be even more significant - those still planned.

regarding the last fact, some curious decisions have been made by the long-suffering ukraine. like to snub russia at any cost, mind you the uki reactors are ALL of soviet/russian designs, they recently decided to buy the nuclear fuel from westighouse. some say it is dangerous and stupid b/c the fuel accident analysis should be done by the reactor vendors. and so on.

obviously some are wise, some will always be stupid. but i am still a believer in the nuclear option.


I'd like to know how accurate the health reporting has been relating to Chernobyl as well. Unfortunately for Belarus at the time, the wind was blowing in the wrong direction while Kiev got lucky. There was an increase in thyroid cancers especially in children in both countries but the numbers did not seem to be very high and how much fallout settled in rivers and the water table ? The clean up workers who did not die soon after the accident were obviously the ones that were highest risk of dying of cancer and many did eventually.The sarcophagus for the reactor of course is only a short term fix and there are going to be ongoing issues and problems. I am in two minds about nuclear power but it seems for some people the risks are worth it re global warming. New reactors are still being built but building reactors in high risk earthquake zones does not seem to be too smart re Fukushima.

will try to address the bolded...

i did not follow the chernobyl accident as close as i did the fukushima's. still, my gut feeling is that the available official state data was manipulated (at best) or, more likely, a collection of lies. the reasons for the distortions could vary from the purely political (ukraine still derives 50% of its electricity from the nukes) to plain habitual and instinctive as that's how that part of the world operates...

..the design life span of the original sarcophagus i understand is about to expire. plus it's cracking. there is an intention to built a new one. i recall hearing it would cost 1.5 billion euros. not sure where the project stands now, but would not be surprised if the monies are corruptly misappropriated or, speaking simply, stollen.

i agree that building nukes in the seismically prone zones does not look wise, but in and of itself such a practice is common (look at california for ex) and is normally explained by the 'seismic design' mandatory for all safety and emergency structures. the problem is that the seismic design criteria is typically based on the past events record and may, like actually happened at fukushima re. the submergence criteria), not anticipate extreme natural anomalies.

all that said, i believe the latest so called passive safety features are as reliable as anything a human can live with. i look at it from the universal point of maturity. like anything, the commercial nuclear technology has been improving as we learn the lessons.
in foreign policy there are no eternal friendships or eternal enemies, only eternal interests
As for Marit, without the medicine, she would have no chance' -OEB
User avatar python
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02 May 2016 17:42

User avatar Jagartrott
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02 May 2016 18:09

More evidence that the oceans are already beginning to deoxygenate as the planet warms.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ocean-s-oxygen-starts-running-low/

Future's gonna be lotsa fun.
User avatar VeloCity
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02 May 2016 18:13

Heard that yesteday did you? New visions from the poster who said there'd never been a left Arab country.

Points for imagination on working out what "world" is.
aphronesis
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03 May 2016 13:10

..an interesting view from a brit who called himself a zionist. he's also a lecturer in islamic history to boot. i did not always follow his parallels to aborigines, but there's plenty of intellectually provocative honesty there, imo.

Is it anti-Semitic to ask whether Israel has the right to exist?
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/it-anti-semitic-ask-whether-israel-has-right-exist-409680961

btw, it would be interesting to read something similar from a 'native european' about how millions of the european union residents, those that were born in the eu countries, are denied citizenship under the same (as in the case of israel) explanation - they'd seize to exist as nations.

and none get called bad amti this or that names...
in foreign policy there are no eternal friendships or eternal enemies, only eternal interests
As for Marit, without the medicine, she would have no chance' -OEB
User avatar python
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