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Re: Re:

Today 15:29

frenchfry wrote:
rhubroma wrote:
Amsterhammer wrote:
The Governing Council of the European Central Bank today welcomed the commitment by ministers from euro area Member States to take all necessary measures to further improve the resilience of euro area economies and to stand ready to take decisive steps to strengthen Economic and Monetary Union.

Following the decision by the Greek authorities to hold a referendum and the non-prolongation of the EU adjustment programme for Greece, the Governing Council declared it will work closely with the Bank of Greece to maintain financial stability.

Given the current circumstances, the Governing Council decided to maintain the ceiling to the provision of emergency liquidity assistance (ELA) to Greek banks at the level decided on Friday (26 June 2015).


This apparently means that Greek banks may not open tomorrow due to a lack of cash.

Should this be seen as some sort of apocalyptic first step on the road to the collapse of the Euro, and the subsequent possible crumbling of the EU?


The Euro technocrats are saying, no, the Euro isn't in danger, while Germany will be popping champagne corks if, when Greece leaves the EU. Of course, everything is uncertain.

The only thing that the Greek crisis demonstrates is that the European Union is without a political soul. It merely has an economic and financial one that is in simbiosis with the US driven IMF, as the case of Greece and, for example, Hungary demonstrates.

The technocrates of the EU central bank, with full support from the EU parliament, can thus be ruthless with poverty, though are willing to cut more than enough slack to the fascist Hungarian regime. Hence to be poor is criminal, or at any rate economically insolvent, but to be fascist remains within the scope of what's tolerable.

I am exagerating a bit, but how would you like it if you were asked to give money to a neighbor that had been spending like a drunken sailor for years.

When the French economy blows up after decades of 20% deficits, about twice the necessary number of civil servants, a huge number of priviliged (politicians at the head) and everyone clamoring for even more government handouts we will only have ourselves to blame - not the EU, not Germany, not the IMF.


....that would be a bit of an exaggeration if the story included treason criminal conspiracy and massive amounts of fraud but your story doesn't....the story you have laid out is a brazen simplification of a fairy tale floated by the EU and dutifully spread by the MSM's to help mask a very complicated heist and subsequent coverup...

Cheers
blutto
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,838
Joined: 04 Jul 2009 19:27

Re: Re:

Today 15:31

ScienceIsCool wrote:
python wrote:if i was a greek citizen, i'd vote 'no' with both hands...this is after starting out opinion-less, just attempting to learn from both sides...

it blows my mind, why the supposedly well educated, smart people running the financial institutions are oblivious to a simple fact that the austerity model cant work and wont work in/under certain conditions.

can the model be imposed, which is basically being forced down the throat of a weak nation ?

of course, it can? . just as would typically happen between the strong and weak...but since there is nothing but a trail of the model's failures, it is safe to bet that another imposition on greece will fail too.

i dont know the solution. but it seems the eu institutions, perhaps even the entire west-dominated financial structures have arrived at the dead end...


But austerity does work. Not to stabilize a country, no. It's designed to crush labor and suppress wages so that BMW can put a factory in Athens and pay a quarter of what they pay in Bavaria. It's designed to create conditions so desperate that the government has to sell of its resources; ports, highways, water, parks, etc to exploitive rentiers.

Yes, austerity works very, very well. And the Troika is doing *everything* they can to implement it.

John Swanson


....bingo! we have a winner!...

Cheers
blutto
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,838
Joined: 04 Jul 2009 19:27

Re: Re:

Today 15:46

frenchfry wrote:
python wrote:if i was a greek citizen, i'd vote 'no' with both hands...this is after starting out opinion-less, just attempting to learn from both sides...

it blows my mind, why the supposedly well educated, smart people running the financial institutions are oblivious to a simple fact that the austerity model cant work and wont work in/under certain conditions.

can the model be imposed, which is basically being forced down the throat of a weak nation ?

of course, it can? . just as would typically happen between the strong and weak...but since there is nothing but a trail of the model's failures, it is safe to bet that another imposition on greece will fail too.

i dont know the solution. but it seems the eu institutions, perhaps even the entire west-dominated financial structures have arrived at the dead end...

It depends what your definition of austerity is. In France, government spending increases 5-6% each year despite almost 0% inflation and 20% deficits, yet many decry that we are subjected to austerity. If austerity means not spending more than your revenue, I don't understand what is so bad about that.

Many say that austerity hasn't worked, yet it seems to me that certain countries like Greece have reduced their deficits significantly in only a few years thanks to "austerity". Deficit spending has been practiced for decades by many countries and look at the mess it has got us in. If overspending was the answer we should be sitting pretty right now - but we aren't.

I am not saying that nothing should be done to help Greece, but they have to realise that if they don't get their budget balanced nobody will want to help them. Would you lend them money knowing that they would flush it down the toilet and never pay you back?


"Would you lend them money knowing that they would flush it down the toilet and never pay you back?"

....well that was more or less the plan from the get go....which a huge part of the story here...it leads folks like our very own Mr Swenson to correctly call this an odious debt....

"In international law, odious debt, also known as illegitimate debt, is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable"

....and...

"DEFINITION of 'Odious Debt'

Money borrowed by one country from another country and then misappropriated by national rulers. A nation's debt becomes odious debt when government leaders use borrowed funds in ways that don't benefit or even oppress citizens. Some legal scholars argue that successor governments should not be held accountable for odious debt incurred by earlier regimes, but there is no consensus on how odious debt should actually be treated. In practice, countries often end up repaying it to uphold their ability to borrow at favorable interest rates.

INVESTOPEDIA EXPLAINS 'Odious Debt'

Legal scholars have identified regimes associated with odious debt in Nicaragua, the Philippines, Haiti, South Africa, Congo, Niger, Croatia and other countries whose rulers have looted national funds for their personal accounts or used the money to restrict liberties and inflict violence on their own citizens. In the European debt crisis of the early 2010s, some critics called Greek's debt odious."

...do remember the lending community helped cook the books so the lending could occur....

Cheers
blutto
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,838
Joined: 04 Jul 2009 19:27

Today 16:07

.....a fine read....

"The European debt crisis goes back to the end of the roaring ‘90s when the banks were flush with money and looking for ways to raise their bottom lines. One major strategy was to pour money into real estate, which had the effect of creating bubbles, particularly in Spain and Ireland. In the latter, from 1999 to 2007, bank loans for Irish real estate jumped 1,730 percent, from 5 million Euros to 96.2 million Euros, or more than half the GDP of the Republic. Housing prices increased 500 percent. “It was not the public sector but the private sector that went haywire in Ireland,” concludes Financial Times analyst Martin Wolf.

Spain, which had a budget surplus and a low debt ratio, went through much the same process, and saw an identical jump in housing prices: 500 percent.

In both countries there was corruption, but it wasn’t the penny ante variety of tax evasion or profit skimming. Politicians—eager for a piece of the action and generous “donations”—waved zoning rules, environmental regulations, and cut sweetheart tax deals. Hundreds of thousands of housing projects went up, many of them never to be occupied.

Then the American banking crisis hit in 2008, and the bottom fell out. Suddenly, the ants were in trouble. But not really, because the ants have a trick: they gamble and the grasshoppers pay.

The “trick,” as Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel Laureate in economics, points out, is that Europe (and the U.S.) have moved those debts “from the private sector to the public sector—a well-established pattern over the past half-century.”

....from... http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/03/02/europes-debt-lies-myths/

....and this little bit which in some folks eyes is an update on the slavery and stuff...just to put things into perspective...

"“Debt, n. An ingenious substitute for the chain and whip of the slave driver”

Ambrose Bierce, Journalist & writer"
blutto
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,838
Joined: 04 Jul 2009 19:27

Today 19:56

Rutrow, more trouble....Varoufakis has said that a better deal can be signed 'the day after the referendum', as the Troika offered a better deal as soon as the referendum was announced. Dijsselbloem said this evening that this was pure fantasy, not a word was true, there was no 'new deal' on offer.
The LOTE has won, all hail the LOTE!
User avatar Amsterhammer
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Posts: 3,907
Joined: 22 Jun 2009 08:29
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Re:

24 minutes ago

frenchfry wrote:
rhubroma wrote:
Amsterhammer wrote:
The Governing Council of the European Central Bank today welcomed the commitment by ministers from euro area Member States to take all necessary measures to further improve the resilience of euro area economies and to stand ready to take decisive steps to strengthen Economic and Monetary Union.

Following the decision by the Greek authorities to hold a referendum and the non-prolongation of the EU adjustment programme for Greece, the Governing Council declared it will work closely with the Bank of Greece to maintain financial stability.

Given the current circumstances, the Governing Council decided to maintain the ceiling to the provision of emergency liquidity assistance (ELA) to Greek banks at the level decided on Friday (26 June 2015).


This apparently means that Greek banks may not open tomorrow due to a lack of cash.

Should this be seen as some sort of apocalyptic first step on the road to the collapse of the Euro, and the subsequent possible crumbling of the EU?


The Euro technocrats are saying, no, the Euro isn't in danger, while Germany will be popping champagne corks if, when Greece leaves the EU. Of course, everything is uncertain.

The only thing that the Greek crisis demonstrates is that the European Union is without a political soul. It merely has an economic and financial one that is in simbiosis with the US driven IMF, as the case of Greece and, for example, Hungary demonstrates.

The technocrates of the EU central bank, with full support from the EU parliament, can thus be ruthless with poverty, though are willing to cut more than enough slack to the fascist Hungarian regime. Hence to be poor is criminal, or at any rate economically insolvent, but to be fascist remains within the scope of what's tolerable.

I am exagerating a bit, but how would you like it if you were asked to give money to a neighbor that had been spending like a drunken sailor for years.

When the French economy blows up after decades of 20% deficits, about twice the necessary number of civil servants, a huge number of priviliged (politicians at the head) and everyone clamoring for even more government handouts we will only have ourselves to blame - not the EU, not Germany, not the IMF.


Well how would you like it if you were asked to give money to a neighbor that invaded you, as was the case with Germany? Look, you see, it's all a fiction and I mean that. How much economic growth in France came from a ruthless exploitation of the colonies? Think about it.

When I think about the crisis in Europe I am inevitably draw into a much bigger global crisis.

Today finance
User avatar rhubroma
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Posts: 6,308
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 14:31

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