Log in:  

Register

Rider of the year 2018

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Moderators: Eshnar, Irondan, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

Who is the rider of the year 2018

Chris Froome
21
23%
Geraint Thomas
6
7%
Simon Yates
15
16%
Alejandro Valverde
24
26%
Tom Dumoulin
17
18%
Vincenzo Nibali
2
2%
Niki Terpstra
2
2%
Peter Sagan
2
2%
Thibaut Pinot
1
1%
Other
2
2%
 
Total votes : 92

Re: Re:

10 Nov 2018 06:21

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:
Koronin wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:Reading some rankings I decided to revise mine (of course is absolutely non-objective :D ).
First, in such so close year, without any racer with multiple overall WT wins, what should be the base for the ranking? My suggestion:
1. GT wins
2. (if necessary GT podiums)
3. (if necessary GT stage wins)
4. GT multiple podiums
5. (if necessary) GT stage wins
6. Monuments & WCRR wins
7. (if necessary) WT multiple stages overall wins (and if..) WT 1 stage overall wins
8. (if necessary) Monuments & WCRR podiums (and if..) WT 1stage overall wins
9. WT multiple stages overall wins
If we are talking about “Rider of the year” total number of wins (including 2nd and 3rd class of races) shouldn’t be taken into account.

So we have:
1. Froome – (also 3rd at TdF)
2. S. Yates – (because of number of GT stage wins)
3. GT
4. Dumoulin – (2 x 2nd)
5. Lopez – (2 x 3rd)
6. Valverde – (WCRR + Abu Dhabi + Catalunya)
7-8. Sagan – (P-R + Gent)
Terpstra – (RVV + E3)
9. Nibali (MSR) – but was 2nd at Lombardia
10. Pinot (Lombardia) – stages at Vuelta
11. Jungels (LBL) – yes, the only one WT win…
12-13. Roglic - (Basque +Romandie)
Kwiatkowski - (Tirreno + TdP)

And I don't know how to rank Viviani.



In case you forgot Valverde also had 2 GT stage wins to go along with his WCRR, Abu Dhabi, Catalunya plus 3 stage wins in those two WT Stage races. Obviously this is on what you put in what your criteria is. (Of course we all have different criteria and some of us don't value GTs as high as other races).

Yes, you are right.
And could you please establish and show us your own criteria which may explain why Valverde is "Rider of the year", instead of CF, SY, GT, TD, MAL..?


How about UCI World Ranking, or Procyclingstats, or CQ ranking, or any other damn ranking! :rolleyes:
User avatar Blanco
Member
 
Posts: 1,384
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 19:33
Location: Serbia

10 Nov 2018 07:27

Maybe you could all write your criteria down for next year now. So you can't just select your favourite rider and make talk up whatever they won as being most important.
Singer01
Member
 
Posts: 1,111
Joined: 18 Nov 2013 19:04

10 Nov 2018 11:00

1. Nibali
2. -10. Dsq
topcat
Junior Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: 04 Jul 2016 21:59

Re: Re:

10 Nov 2018 11:01

Blanco wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:
Koronin wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:Reading some rankings I decided to revise mine (of course is absolutely non-objective :D ).
First, in such so close year, without any racer with multiple overall WT wins, what should be the base for the ranking? My suggestion:
1. GT wins
2. (if necessary GT podiums)
3. (if necessary GT stage wins)
4. GT multiple podiums
5. (if necessary) GT stage wins
6. Monuments & WCRR wins
7. (if necessary) WT multiple stages overall wins (and if..) WT 1 stage overall wins
8. (if necessary) Monuments & WCRR podiums (and if..) WT 1stage overall wins
9. WT multiple stages overall wins
If we are talking about “Rider of the year” total number of wins (including 2nd and 3rd class of races) shouldn’t be taken into account.

So we have:
1. Froome – (also 3rd at TdF)
2. S. Yates – (because of number of GT stage wins)
3. GT
4. Dumoulin – (2 x 2nd)
5. Lopez – (2 x 3rd)
6. Valverde – (WCRR + Abu Dhabi + Catalunya)
7-8. Sagan – (P-R + Gent)
Terpstra – (RVV + E3)
9. Nibali (MSR) – but was 2nd at Lombardia
10. Pinot (Lombardia) – stages at Vuelta
11. Jungels (LBL) – yes, the only one WT win…
12-13. Roglic - (Basque +Romandie)
Kwiatkowski - (Tirreno + TdP)

And I don't know how to rank Viviani.



In case you forgot Valverde also had 2 GT stage wins to go along with his WCRR, Abu Dhabi, Catalunya plus 3 stage wins in those two WT Stage races. Obviously this is on what you put in what your criteria is. (Of course we all have different criteria and some of us don't value GTs as high as other races).

Yes, you are right.
And could you please establish and show us your own criteria which may explain why Valverde is "Rider of the year", instead of CF, SY, GT, TD, MAL..?


How about UCI World Ranking, or Procyclingstats, or CQ ranking, or any other damn ranking! :rolleyes:


Well, here's a "damn ranking" for you

https://dataride.uci.ch/Results/iframe/RankingDetails/7?disciplineId=10&groupId=3&momentId=29734&disciplineSeasonId=89&rankingTypeId=1&categoryId=22&raceTypeId=0
User avatar roundabout
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,180
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 11:43

Re:

10 Nov 2018 12:32

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:Reading some rankings I decided to revise mine (of course is absolutely non-objective :D ).
First, in such so close year, without any racer with multiple overall WT wins, what should be the base for the ranking? My suggestion:
1. GT wins
2. (if necessary GT podiums)
3. (if necessary GT stage wins)
4. GT multiple podiums
5. (if necessary) GT stage wins
6. Monuments & WCRR wins
7. (if necessary) WT multiple stages overall wins (and if..) WT 1 stage overall wins
8. (if necessary) Monuments & WCRR podiums (and if..) WT 1stage overall wins
9. WT multiple stages overall wins
If we are talking about “Rider of the year” total number of wins (including 2nd and 3rd class of races) shouldn’t be taken into account.

Just to clarify, cause I'm not quite sure I get your system, if a rider (A) wins all 5 monuments in one year and another rider (B) wins 1 grand tour, your system means that you pick rider B as the better rider? Or how do you see it?
"If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel." - Fabian Cancellara after Paris-Roubaix 2011.
User avatar Cance > TheRest
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,493
Joined: 17 Apr 2013 18:38
Location: Denmark

10 Nov 2018 12:41

Nice try ;) You of course know that this ranking doesn't include all races on the calendar. In fact it doesn't include probably the biggest one-day race on the calendar, World Championships Road Race. Add only that race and we will have a different winner, the same one who's 1st in all those rankings I listed in previous post :D
User avatar Blanco
Member
 
Posts: 1,384
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 19:33
Location: Serbia

10 Nov 2018 12:59

You wrote any other damn ranking, not me. And that's an actual ranking, not your extra arbitrary one.
User avatar roundabout
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,180
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 11:43

Re: Re:

10 Nov 2018 13:17

Cance > TheRest wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:Reading some rankings I decided to revise mine (of course is absolutely non-objective :D ).
First, in such so close year, without any racer with multiple overall WT wins, what should be the base for the ranking? My suggestion:
1. GT wins
2. (if necessary GT podiums)
3. (if necessary GT stage wins)
4. GT multiple podiums
5. (if necessary) GT stage wins
6. Monuments & WCRR wins
7. (if necessary) WT multiple stages overall wins (and if..) WT 1 stage overall wins
8. (if necessary) Monuments & WCRR podiums (and if..) WT 1stage overall wins
9. WT multiple stages overall wins
If we are talking about “Rider of the year” total number of wins (including 2nd and 3rd class of races) shouldn’t be taken into account.

Just to clarify, cause I'm not quite sure I get your system, if a rider (A) wins all 5 monuments in one year and another rider (B) wins 1 grand tour, your system means that you pick rider B as the better rider? Or how do you see it?

Yes, you are right, in this system rider B would be better (which is nonsense).
That's why I've just bolded the main assumption for my system. And if sb won all 5 monuments this assumption would of course fail but in that case the thread "Rider of the year.." probably would be pointless.
User avatar Bot. Sky_Bot
Member
 
Posts: 1,062
Joined: 20 Aug 2017 12:52

10 Nov 2018 13:37

The problem with your system is that it massively overvalues GTs. Like, by a huge amount. Enough that, given your username and posting history, is going to open you up to accusations of bias especially when your categorisation leads to an all-British 2/3 Sky top 3. Even if those are not unreasonable riders to put top 3 at all, producing a ranking which is so heavily tilted in favour of one type of racing will be seen just as several of El Pistolero's old "objective rankings" were, rankings which would usually be shaped to heavily inflate the value of races won by his preferred rider in the comparison and deflate the value of races won by his less preferred rider or ignore them entirely, such as when he did a comparison of Sagan and Valverde, omitting stage races entirely from the comparison and extirpating races like San Sebastián from the record so as to support his personal viewpoint.

in lieu of a particularly dominant Classics rider or anybody picking up a huge amount of smaller stage races and so forth, the top 3 achieved by your ranking is not an unreasonable one, though I would personally rank Yates above Froome because although Froome achieved the higher overall GC placements across the two combined races, and the Tour is of course the biggest fish, Yates' Giro was far more memorable and high profile than Froome's Tour. Thomas is hard to rank in comparison to them. I mean, he won the Tour and fairly convincingly, but there's less that we can take for posterity from it. We'll remember Yates in Sappada in the maglia rosa and his barking orders at the Colombians to work in the Vuelta, and of course we'll remember Froome's Bardonecchia assault (and Bennett's response) for years to come and, while "being memorable" shouldn't be a factor in this more than actual achievements, it does nevertheless play a part.

Oh, and in case anybody thought I was losing my touch, can we talk about Anna van der Breggen a moment? 1st in Strade Bianche, the Ronde van Vlaanderen, La Flèche Wallonne, Liège-Bastogne-Liège, the Emakumeen Saria and the Worlds Road Race (by miles), 2nd in La Course (in the tensest chasedown in years), the national, European AND World Time Trials, 3rd in the Emakumeen Bira and the Boels Rentals Tour. Annemiek's second half of the season was phenomenal too - 3 stage wins and the GC at the Giro, 1st at La Course, 1st in Veenendaal-Veenendaal, 1st with 3 stage wins at the Boels Rentals Tour and 1st in the Worlds Time Trial, with a stage win and 2nd on GC at Emakumeen Bira and a podium at the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Liège-Bastogne-Liège. And 7th in the Worlds Road Race with a fractured knee. Annemiek is awesome.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,718
Joined: 20 Feb 2010 11:54
Location: Land of Saíz

Re: Re:

10 Nov 2018 14:26

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:
Cance > TheRest wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:Reading some rankings I decided to revise mine (of course is absolutely non-objective :D ).
First, in such so close year, without any racer with multiple overall WT wins, what should be the base for the ranking? My suggestion:
1. GT wins
2. (if necessary GT podiums)
3. (if necessary GT stage wins)
4. GT multiple podiums
5. (if necessary) GT stage wins
6. Monuments & WCRR wins
7. (if necessary) WT multiple stages overall wins (and if..) WT 1 stage overall wins
8. (if necessary) Monuments & WCRR podiums (and if..) WT 1stage overall wins
9. WT multiple stages overall wins
If we are talking about “Rider of the year” total number of wins (including 2nd and 3rd class of races) shouldn’t be taken into account.

Just to clarify, cause I'm not quite sure I get your system, if a rider (A) wins all 5 monuments in one year and another rider (B) wins 1 grand tour, your system means that you pick rider B as the better rider? Or how do you see it?

Yes, you are right, in this system rider B would be better (which is nonsense).
That's why I've just bolded the main assumption for my system. And if sb won all 5 monuments this assumption would of course fail but in that case the thread "Rider of the year.." probably would be pointless.

Okay, yeah, it was just a hypothetical scenario. I don't think I would have had to go to the extreme cases to prove that your system is flawed though. It seems like you even recognize it yourself, since you agree that applying the logics of your system in a strict manner leads to nonsense conclusions.
"If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel." - Fabian Cancellara after Paris-Roubaix 2011.
User avatar Cance > TheRest
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,493
Joined: 17 Apr 2013 18:38
Location: Denmark

Re:

10 Nov 2018 15:39

roundabout wrote:You wrote any other damn ranking, not me. And that's an actual ranking, not your extra arbitrary one.


Lol, because the point with the WCRR obviously doesn't have any merits or what?
User avatar tobydawq
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,066
Joined: 16 Nov 2013 18:45
Location: Denmark

10 Nov 2018 16:23

That's a whole different point.
User avatar roundabout
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,180
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 11:43

10 Nov 2018 17:17

I vote for Froome by quite a margin. Winning the Giro and finishing 3rd in the Tour alone would be enough. But completing the GT set, holding all three at once, as well as dominating on Zoncolan and Finestre - the two hardest climbs raced in GTs this year - and putting in the greatest solo performance for over a decade, puts him way ahead of the rest imo.
User avatar DFA123
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,358
Joined: 07 Nov 2010 16:00
Location: Valencia

10 Nov 2018 17:34

Half the things you listed are last year's achievements.
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

I came, I saw, I was dead wrong as per usual
User avatar Red Rick
Administrator
 
Posts: 15,563
Joined: 20 Feb 2012 18:15

Re:

10 Nov 2018 17:40

Red Rick wrote:Half the things you listed are last year's achievements.

Err, no. :o
User avatar DFA123
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,358
Joined: 07 Nov 2010 16:00
Location: Valencia

Re:

10 Nov 2018 18:09

Libertine Seguros wrote:The problem with your system is that it massively overvalues GTs. Like, by a huge amount. Enough that, given your username and posting history, is going to open you up to accusations of bias especially when your categorisation leads to an all-British 2/3 Sky top 3. Even if those are not unreasonable riders to put top 3 at all, producing a ranking which is so heavily tilted in favour of one type of racing will be seen just as several of El Pistolero's old "objective rankings" were, rankings which would usually be shaped to heavily inflate the value of races won by his preferred rider in the comparison and deflate the value of races won by his less preferred rider or ignore them entirely, such as when he did a comparison of Sagan and Valverde, omitting stage races entirely from the comparison and extirpating races like San Sebastián from the record so as to support his personal viewpoint.

in lieu of a particularly dominant Classics rider or anybody picking up a huge amount of smaller stage races and so forth, the top 3 achieved by your ranking is not an unreasonable one, though I would personally rank Yates above Froome because although Froome achieved the higher overall GC placements across the two combined races, and the Tour is of course the biggest fish, Yates' Giro was far more memorable and high profile than Froome's Tour. Thomas is hard to rank in comparison to them. I mean, he won the Tour and fairly convincingly, but there's less that we can take for posterity from it. We'll remember Yates in Sappada in the maglia rosa and his barking orders at the Colombians to work in the Vuelta, and of course we'll remember Froome's Bardonecchia assault (and Bennett's response) for years to come and, while "being memorable" shouldn't be a factor in this more than actual achievements, it does nevertheless play a part.

Oh, and in case anybody thought I was losing my touch, can we talk about Anna van der Breggen a moment? 1st in Strade Bianche, the Ronde van Vlaanderen, La Flèche Wallonne, Liège-Bastogne-Liège, the Emakumeen Saria and the Worlds Road Race (by miles), 2nd in La Course (in the tensest chasedown in years), the national, European AND World Time Trials, 3rd in the Emakumeen Bira and the Boels Rentals Tour. Annemiek's second half of the season was phenomenal too - 3 stage wins and the GC at the Giro, 1st at La Course, 1st in Veenendaal-Veenendaal, 1st with 3 stage wins at the Boels Rentals Tour and 1st in the Worlds Time Trial, with a stage win and 2nd on GC at Emakumeen Bira and a podium at the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Liège-Bastogne-Liège. And 7th in the Worlds Road Race with a fractured knee. Annemiek is awesome.



I did watch a replay of the women's WCRR and van der Breggen was impressive. I was glad she finally it.
User avatar Koronin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,820
Joined: 14 Oct 2017 01:42
Location: North Carolina, USA

10 Nov 2018 19:35

I would say you could make a case for S. Yates, Froome, Tom, and Valverde. From there it goes on personal preference. Me personally, I would say Valverde or Tom.
User avatar SHAD0W93
Member
 
Posts: 817
Joined: 13 Aug 2011 03:50

10 Nov 2018 22:47

I voted for Sagan , because he had no votes at the time of my voting an he deserves at least one. He had great season for non GC rider.
My real vote would be between Yates and Froome. With all respect to Valverde he won except worlds only Catalunya, two Vuelta stages and bunch of small races. Tom Dumoulin won basically two ITTs this year he shouldnt be in contention for rider of the year with this plamares. However his two podiums at two consecutive grand tours are pretty impressive.
Keram
Junior Member
 
Posts: 196
Joined: 01 Oct 2015 12:31

Re:

10 Nov 2018 23:49

Keram wrote:I voted for Sagan , because he had no votes at the time of my voting an he deserves at least one. He had great season for non GC rider.
My real vote would be between Yates and Froome. With all respect to Valverde he won except worlds only Catalunya, two Vuelta stages and bunch of small races. Tom Dumoulin won basically two ITTs this year he shouldnt be in contention for rider of the year with this plamares. However his two podiums at two consecutive grand tours are pretty impressive.

I agree that Sagan is a little underrated this year. His win in Paris Roubaix is perhaps his most impressive win yet, but his season lost a bit of spark later on after the Tour crash.

And even though his PR win was super impressive, all 5 monuments were absolutely brilliant solo performances, so it doesn't stand out as much as it might have in another year.

2018, it's a bit weird. Nobody is head and shoulders above the rest, but the 10th best rider of the year is might just be the best ever, if that makes any sense.
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

I came, I saw, I was dead wrong as per usual
User avatar Red Rick
Administrator
 
Posts: 15,563
Joined: 20 Feb 2012 18:15

Re: Re:

11 Nov 2018 00:14

Red Rick wrote:
Keram wrote:I voted for Sagan , because he had no votes at the time of my voting an he deserves at least one. He had great season for non GC rider.
My real vote would be between Yates and Froome. With all respect to Valverde he won except worlds only Catalunya, two Vuelta stages and bunch of small races. Tom Dumoulin won basically two ITTs this year he shouldnt be in contention for rider of the year with this plamares. However his two podiums at two consecutive grand tours are pretty impressive.

I agree that Sagan is a little underrated this year. His win in Paris Roubaix is perhaps his most impressive win yet, but his season lost a bit of spark later on after the Tour crash.

And even though his PR win was super impressive, all 5 monuments were absolutely brilliant solo performances, so it doesn't stand out as much as it might have in another year.

2018, it's a bit weird. Nobody is head and shoulders above the rest, but the 10th best rider of the year is might just be the best ever, if that makes any sense.


It makes total sense. This year the nine biggest races were won by nine different men, a different guy came second in the Tour, Giro and WCITT and a sprinter won a million races. That’s without even considering the guy who was the dominant puncheur of the season. The number one probably had a less impressive season than most year’s best riders but the depth of the field at the top end is unusually good.
Zinoviev Letter
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,422
Joined: 18 Aug 2010 13:18

PreviousNext

Return to Professional road racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Arnout, Google Adsense [Bot], Logic-is-your-friend, MatParker117, Pennino, Red Rick and 24 guests

Back to top