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Rider of the year 2018

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Who is the rider of the year 2018

Chris Froome
21
23%
Geraint Thomas
6
7%
Simon Yates
15
16%
Alejandro Valverde
24
26%
Tom Dumoulin
17
18%
Vincenzo Nibali
2
2%
Niki Terpstra
2
2%
Peter Sagan
2
2%
Thibaut Pinot
1
1%
Other
2
2%
 
Total votes : 92

Re: Re:

11 Nov 2018 00:16

Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Keram wrote:I voted for Sagan , because he had no votes at the time of my voting an he deserves at least one. He had great season for non GC rider.
My real vote would be between Yates and Froome. With all respect to Valverde he won except worlds only Catalunya, two Vuelta stages and bunch of small races. Tom Dumoulin won basically two ITTs this year he shouldnt be in contention for rider of the year with this plamares. However his two podiums at two consecutive grand tours are pretty impressive.

I agree that Sagan is a little underrated this year. His win in Paris Roubaix is perhaps his most impressive win yet, but his season lost a bit of spark later on after the Tour crash.

And even though his PR win was super impressive, all 5 monuments were absolutely brilliant solo performances, so it doesn't stand out as much as it might have in another year.

2018, it's a bit weird. Nobody is head and shoulders above the rest, but the 10th best rider of the year is might just be the best ever, if that makes any sense.


It makes total sense. This year the nine biggest races were won by nine different men, a different guy came second in the Tour, Giro and WCITT and a sprinter won a million races. That’s without even considering the guy who was the dominant puncheur of the season. The number one probably had a less impressive season than most year’s best riders but the depth of the field at the top end is unusually good.

Then you also have a guy being late to the party to kinda steal 3rd in a GT twice in one year and a guy who won 2 WT stage races in dominant fashion and narrowly missed out on a Tour podium, and a World ITT champ who won like 3 ITTs in GTs who are all probably not top 10 this year.
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

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Re:

11 Nov 2018 08:06

DFA123 wrote:I vote for Froome by quite a margin. Winning the Giro and finishing 3rd in the Tour alone would be enough. But completing the GT set, holding all three at once, as well as dominating on Zoncolan and Finestre - the two hardest climbs raced in GTs this year - and putting in the greatest solo performance for over a decade, puts him way ahead of the rest imo.


Admittedly I have some bias to GT's, but I agree with this. Zoncolan has been largely forgotten, and Finestre, well, that's the best performance in a GT in at least a decade, and in the second biggest event of the year. And he backed up with a third place in the biggest event of the year.

Someone who is more or less strictly a one day rider needs to win 2 of the big 6 to rank alongside a GT win and a GT podium IMO. Yates cannot contend with Froome as unfortunately his final GC result in the Giro pretty much counts for nothing, and he 'only' won the third of the GT's. A case can be made for Dumoulin though, because he also did very well at the World's (which Froome didn't), and his GT results are reasonably close to Froome.

Valverde would need a podium in either the Tour or Vuelta to be in this conversation.

I can see some people starting to downgrade the Giro as an event though because Froome won it :D
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11 Nov 2018 10:04

If you're gonna put emphasis on the actual level to speak in Froome's favour you have to do the same for Yates too. Regardless, they're the top 2 riders for me this season.
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

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11 Nov 2018 10:10

I don't think Valverde was the best rider of the year. Yep, he came back from a horrible injury, but this should have nothing in common with being the best in the year or not. Otherwise one could say Frooime was the best because with all the pressure he had from the Salbutamol case he was still mentally strong enough to win the Giro with some impressive rides and being competitive in the Tour.
For me its a really close between Froome (only on road achievements), Thomas - won Dauphine easily and the Tour comfortable + 2 back to back mountain stage wins (we don't see othen something like this) and another "given"stage win as I think he really slowed down in the end of the TT,
Yates for the obvious reasons + almost won Paris-Nice, 4th Catalunya, 2nd in Poland with stage wins in all these races and Tom Domoulin. 2nd in Giro (with 3rd for one stage being his lowest ranking 2nd in the Tour, actually looking stronger than Froome + his WC performances is really impressive. I would maybe go with Dumoulin.
Had Valverde won FW/LBL maybe it would be him, but in terms in wins I don't think that Valenciana, Oman, Catalunya, Occitanie WCRR comes close to TdF + Dauphine.
P.s. Don't give me wrong, I'm not so much Stage Races biased, but none of the one day riders or sprinters were so much impressive through the year.
YavorD
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11 Nov 2018 10:25

I'm very much of the opinion that because he didn't win any of his big goals, Dumoulins season is being heavily undervalued in this thread. He was the closest challenger at both, the Giro and the Tour and made the last four-man selection in WCRR, while also being the runner-up in both TT disciplines.

While Froome was able to take the Giro , it required one of the most controversial performances of the decade to achieve it. However, Dumoulins exploits at the Worlds lift him to another level when entire seasons performance is in question.

Obviously in the longer run we predominantly remember victories and winners and not narrow nearmisses and other lower placings, but this particular thread is about evaluating the season that just ended and about which far more than just wins and winners are fresh in the memory. As such the importance of a singular win (however big the race is) should not be overestimated.
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Re:

11 Nov 2018 10:42

Põhja Konn wrote:I'm very much of the opinion that because he didn't win any of his big goals, Dumoulins season is being heavily undervalued in this thread. He was the closest challenger at both, the Giro and the Tour and made the last four-man selection in WCRR, while also being the runner-up in both TT disciplines.

While Froome was able to take the Giro , it required one of the most controversial performances of the decade to achieve it. However, Dumoulins exploits at the Worlds lift him to another level when entire seasons performance is in question.

Obviously in the longer run we predominantly remember victories and winners and not narrow nearmisses and other lower placings, but this particular thread is about evaluating the season that just ended and about which far more than just wins and winners are fresh in the memory. As such the importance of a singular win (however big the race is) should not be overestimated.

Yeah I think Dumoulin was definitely one of the most impressive riders this year, and he kinda didn't get the reward for it. Especially when discussing entire careers of riders of this level, we're mostly talking GT, WC and monument wins, so he kinda fell flat there this year.

Like in level he was easily top 3 for me with Froome and Yates. But not in results.

I hope Deuxmoulin can stop the streak next year.
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Re:

11 Nov 2018 10:54

Libertine Seguros wrote:The problem with your system is that it massively overvalues GTs. Like, by a huge amount. Enough that, given your username and posting history, is going to open you up to accusations of bias especially when your categorisation leads to an all-British 2/3 Sky top 3. Even if those are not unreasonable riders to put top 3 at all, producing a ranking which is so heavily tilted in favour of one type of racing will be seen just as several of El Pistolero's old "objective rankings" were, rankings which would usually be shaped to heavily inflate the value of races won by his preferred rider in the comparison and deflate the value of races won by his less preferred rider or ignore them entirely, such as when he did a comparison of Sagan and Valverde, omitting stage races entirely from the comparison and extirpating races like San Sebastián from the record so as to support his personal viewpoint.

in lieu of a particularly dominant Classics rider or anybody picking up a huge amount of smaller stage races and so forth, the top 3 achieved by your ranking is not an unreasonable one, though I would personally rank Yates above Froome because although Froome achieved the higher overall GC placements across the two combined races, and the Tour is of course the biggest fish, Yates' Giro was far more memorable and high profile than Froome's Tour. Thomas is hard to rank in comparison to them. I mean, he won the Tour and fairly convincingly, but there's less that we can take for posterity from it. We'll remember Yates in Sappada in the maglia rosa and his barking orders at the Colombians to work in the Vuelta, and of course we'll remember Froome's Bardonecchia assault (and Bennett's response) for years to come and, while "being memorable" shouldn't be a factor in this more than actual achievements, it does nevertheless play a part.

Oh, and in case anybody thought I was losing my touch, can we talk about Anna van der Breggen a moment? 1st in Strade Bianche, the Ronde van Vlaanderen, La Flèche Wallonne, Liège-Bastogne-Liège, the Emakumeen Saria and the Worlds Road Race (by miles), 2nd in La Course (in the tensest chasedown in years), the national, European AND World Time Trials, 3rd in the Emakumeen Bira and the Boels Rentals Tour. Annemiek's second half of the season was phenomenal too - 3 stage wins and the GC at the Giro, 1st at La Course, 1st in Veenendaal-Veenendaal, 1st with 3 stage wins at the Boels Rentals Tour and 1st in the Worlds Time Trial, with a stage win and 2nd on GC at Emakumeen Bira and a podium at the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Liège-Bastogne-Liège. And 7th in the Worlds Road Race with a fractured knee. Annemiek is awesome.

Yes, of course I'm Sky fanboy so I wll give my personal rankings in previous 4 years:
2014:
GT winners: Quintana, Nibali, Contador
But Contador won TA + Pais Vasco, so Contador was the best (and I'm not a Contador fan because of obvious one reason) - I had to apply my 7th point of my system.
2015:
Contador vs. Froome vs. Aru
So Aru better than Froome thanks to his 2nd place at Giro (and I'm not a Aru fan).
2016:
Nibali vs. Froome vs. Quintana
So Quintana also better than Froome, because of his wins at Catalunya and Romandie (Froome - only Dauphine) - also 7th point of my system.
2017:
Dumo vs. Froome (TdF & Vuelta).
Froome, no doubts.
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Re:

11 Nov 2018 11:11

Põhja Konn wrote:I'm very much of the opinion that because he didn't win any of his big goals, Dumoulins season is being heavily undervalued in this thread. He was the closest challenger at both, the Giro and the Tour and made the last four-man selection in WCRR, while also being the runner-up in both TT disciplines.

While Froome was able to take the Giro , it required one of the most controversial performances of the decade to achieve it. However, Dumoulins exploits at the Worlds lift him to another level when entire seasons performance is in question.

Obviously in the longer run we predominantly remember victories and winners and not narrow nearmisses and other lower placings, but this particular thread is about evaluating the season that just ended and about which far more than just wins and winners are fresh in the memory. As such the importance of a singular win (however big the race is) should not be overestimated.

I think the opposite. Dumoulin is being overrated, largely because some can't bring themselves to acknowledge the superiority of Sky and Valverde. 2nd place (or 4th at WRR) can be impressive if you are pushing for the win all the way against an incredible field and narrowly fall short.

But that wasn't the case with Dumoulin. He never seriously looked like winning either GT - even when Yates collapsed out of nowhere, Dumoulin was spectacularly unable to take advantage. And in the WRR he was basically a non-factor, completely disregarded by the eventual winner.

Added to the fact he had a low number of race days, so should be more consistent than riders who were racing a lot more, yet still didn't win any non-TT race. No-one will remember anything about Dumoulin's season in a few years - because he did absolutely nothing remarkable.

Froome, Thomas, Yates and Valverde, on the other hand, all provided multiple memorable moments to go along with their significant wins. Those four are head and shoulders above the rest - Dumoulin included.
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Re:

11 Nov 2018 11:12

YavorD wrote:I don't think Valverde was the best rider of the year. Yep, he came back from a horrible injury, but this should have nothing in common with being the best in the year or not. Otherwise one could say Frooime was the best because with all the pressure he had from the Salbutamol case he was still mentally strong enough to win the Giro with some impressive rides and being competitive in the Tour.
For me its a really close between Froome (only on road achievements), Thomas - won Dauphine easily and the Tour comfortable + 2 back to back mountain stage wins (we don't see othen something like this) and another "given"stage win as I think he really slowed down in the end of the TT,
Yates for the obvious reasons + almost won Paris-Nice, 4th Catalunya, 2nd in Poland with stage wins in all these races and Tom Domoulin. 2nd in Giro (with 3rd for one stage being his lowest ranking 2nd in the Tour, actually looking stronger than Froome + his WC performances is really impressive. I would maybe go with Dumoulin.
Had Valverde won FW/LBL maybe it would be him, but in terms in wins I don't think that Valenciana, Oman, Catalunya, Occitanie WCRR comes close to TdF + Dauphine.
P.s. Don't give me wrong, I'm not so much Stage Races biased, but none of the one day riders or sprinters were so much impressive through the year.


Never, in the history of this sport, a guy who won only two TT's in entire season, was the best rider of the year! So, just no!
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11 Nov 2018 11:18

By that logic, Valverde just won a few reduced bunch sprints this year.

Which is why it's an unfair argument
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Re:

11 Nov 2018 11:21

Red Rick wrote:By that logic, Valverde just won a few reduced bunch sprints this year.

Wow, a contender for worst analogy of the year here. Even if you count every one of Valverde's wins as a reduced bunch sprint, he still won ten of them. TEN. That's orders of magnitude more than a couple of TTs.

But he didn't just win that, he also won the GC of 4 stage races.
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11 Nov 2018 11:23

No doubts, it was so close season. There are reasons to point S. Yates or Froome, or Thomas as the best rider of the year. But others, don't think so.
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Re: Re:

11 Nov 2018 11:31

DFA123 wrote:
Red Rick wrote:By that logic, Valverde just won a few reduced bunch sprints this year.

Wow, a contender for worst analogy of the year here. Even if you count every one of Valverde's wins as a reduced bunch sprint, he still won ten of them. TEN. That's orders of magnitude more than a couple of TTs.

But he didn't just win that, he also won the GC of 4 stage races.

complains about bad analogy, immediately brings everything back to solely quantity of wins.

Viviani also won 2 GCs this year. And he won more sprints.

Does quality of races suddenly have to count now?
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11 Nov 2018 13:33

Froome of course. No one dominated in the classics. Movistar couldn't even hit the podium in a grand tour. Yates, Thomas, Valverde and Dumoulin probably make up the top five.
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Re:

11 Nov 2018 14:00

movingtarget wrote:Froome of course. No one dominated in the classics. Movistar couldn't even hit the podium in a grand tour. Yates, Thomas, Valverde and Dumoulin probably make up the top five.

I'd put Sagan ahead of Dumoulin as well - he's the closest to dominating in the classics. He's probably pretty close to Valverde, but Valverde trumps him on the minor wins.

Paris Roubaix and GW wins is pretty impressive. Add inn three Tour stages and the green jersey, plus top 10s in MSR, RVV, AGR and SB, and its a very strong season. It almost seems average because of the standards that he and GVA have set in the last few years - but objectively it's way stronger than a few second places in big events.
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11 Nov 2018 14:01

Results do matter. Froome no. 1, Thomas, TdF winner plus two stages and Dauphine would be second, Yates for one GT win and countless GT stages won third, Valverde for his WCRR and Dumoulin for his consistency close the top five.
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Re: Re:

11 Nov 2018 14:08

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:Yes, of course I'm Sky fanboy so I wll give my personal rankings in previous 4 years:
2014:
GT winners: Quintana, Nibali, Contador
But Contador won TA + Pais Vasco, so Contador was the best (and I'm not a Contador fan because of obvious one reason) - I had to apply my 7th point of my system.
2015:
Contador vs. Froome vs. Aru
So Aru better than Froome thanks to his 2nd place at Giro (and I'm not a Aru fan).
2016:
Nibali vs. Froome vs. Quintana
So Quintana also better than Froome, because of his wins at Catalunya and Romandie (Froome - only Dauphine) - also 7th point of my system.
2017:
Dumo vs. Froome (TdF & Vuelta).
Froome, no doubts.

I just think you're putting far too much of a bias in your considerations towards the GTs and in fact stage races in general - and also seemingly very heavily weighted towards the GC to the exclusion of all else in such that "rider of the year" is a straight head to head between the GT winners. I think Sagan had a better 2016 than any of the GT winners, and I think we all know that I say that with quite some reluctance. With you on Contador for 2014, and I think it's hard to argue against Froome for 2017, but I think you also have to consider Kristoff in 2015. For example, in 2009 surely Cavendish should merit some consideration for best rider of the year, as with Menchov being awol after the Giro, Contador calling his season to a close in July and Valverde being great everywhere he went but riding only the one GT due to his being unwelcome in Italy, Cav's season that year was dominant to a level hitherto unforeseen, and again, I'm sure if you weren't here in the days of HTC's dominant train of pain others can fill you in on my opinion of them.
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Re: Re:

11 Nov 2018 14:49

Red Rick wrote:
DFA123 wrote:
Red Rick wrote:By that logic, Valverde just won a few reduced bunch sprints this year.

Wow, a contender for worst analogy of the year here. Even if you count every one of Valverde's wins as a reduced bunch sprint, he still won ten of them. TEN. That's orders of magnitude more than a couple of TTs.

But he didn't just win that, he also won the GC of 4 stage races.

complains about bad analogy, immediately brings everything back to solely quantity of wins.

Err, no. Valverde won the World Championships, a WT stage race and GT stage wins. The point is that he had the quality and the quantity. And it is clearly the combination of quantity and quality of wins that decides rider of the year.

As Blanco said, winning just two TTs all year leaves you way too short on the quantity side to be in serious consideration.

If we're suddenly valuing 2nd place and high positions as nearly as good as wins, then I'm sure you would heartily agree that Valverde should be regarded as rider of the year all those times he podiumed GTs and WCs? As surely you wouldn't just be twisting the criteria to suit your favourites? :rolleyes:

Viviani also won 2 GCs this year. And he won more sprints.

Does quality of races suddenly have to count now?

Bit embarrassing to be bringing Viviani's name into the conversation for Best Rider of 2018.
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Re: Rider of the year 2018

11 Nov 2018 15:24

For me Valverde. Followed closely by Yates and then probably Viviani (I'm missing him here as sprinter who won the most)

Dumoulin didn't win enough big races to contend here. If the thread title was most consistent rider of the year then yes
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Re: Re:

11 Nov 2018 15:26

DFA123 wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
DFA123 wrote:
Red Rick wrote:By that logic, Valverde just won a few reduced bunch sprints this year.

Wow, a contender for worst analogy of the year here. Even if you count every one of Valverde's wins as a reduced bunch sprint, he still won ten of them. TEN. That's orders of magnitude more than a couple of TTs.

But he didn't just win that, he also won the GC of 4 stage races.

complains about bad analogy, immediately brings everything back to solely quantity of wins.

Err, no. Valverde won the World Championships, a WT stage race and GT stage wins. The point is that he had the quality and the quantity. And it is clearly the combination of quantity and quality of wins that decides rider of the year.

As Blanco said, winning just two TTs all year leaves you way too short on the quantity side to be in serious consideration.

If we're suddenly valuing 2nd place and high positions as nearly as good as wins, then I'm sure you would heartily agree that Valverde should be regarded as rider of the year all those times he podiumed GTs and WCs? As surely you wouldn't just be twisting the criteria to suit your favourites? :rolleyes:

Viviani also won 2 GCs this year. And he won more sprints.

Does quality of races suddenly have to count now?

Bit embarrassing to be bringing Viviani's name into the conversation for Best Rider of 2018.

The thing is that I am not arguing that Dumoulin had a better season than Valverde. I am arguing that Valverde didn't have the best season by applying the arguments in his favor to other riders.

To have Valverde on top, you have to put all the Tier 1 races in the same bracket, then put a ridiculous emphasis on wins in micky mouse races over non wins in Tier 1 races and you have to completely disregard the historical significance of certain achievements and you have to disregard in what manner races were won.

Froome was the first since Pantani in '98 to podium the Tour after winning the Giro.

Valverde was the first to win the WC after winning GC stages and a bunch of other stuff since Sagan in 2017, 2016, and 2015.
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