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2019 Giro CQ game

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Re: Re:

13 May 2019 07:15

tobydawq wrote:
Armchair cyclist wrote:
tobydawq wrote:Hmm, why not just show the real standings? I was very confused when reading the rules and still don't really get that choice.


I had already put the standings, in the 22:52 post. I realised I was in the lead, and couldn't wait... Alternative explanation: I was away and didn't have time for a full update, so quickly put up the standings and the explanation several hours later.

Hopefully the Stage 2 update will be clearer.

Let me know if you are still uncertain (Anyone, not just Tobydawq)


I think you misunderstood me.

The thing I don't get is why the "standings" you show are the projected standings (with all the hypothetical end-of-race points) and not the "real" standings with just the points earned so far.

But if that is the tradition, I just have to get used to it.


Ah, got you. That is precisely what I have had in previous editions as the secondary competition, the Guaranteed points standing. The problem was, it didn't really reflect the true positions or the result anyone is heading towards.
Take a team that had Pinot in last year's Giro. In terms of real/guaranteed standings, Stage 20 (when he dropped from 3rd to 16th) would have looked no worse for them than any sprint stage in which he finished outside the top 10, nor would stage 21 when he didn't start. In the same race, Froome's stage 19 turnaround would have been no more significant than Schachmann's breakaway win the previous day (18 pink jersey points apart, which I why I didn't use Yates on st19 as the example in the previous sentence). Belletti would have looked as though he was just as helpful to his CQ team as Konrad, both gathering something in the teens of points, although the latter was en route to 190 points for 7th in GC.

We are all aware enough of how early GC is not really a great predictor of final standings (probably not as much the case in this Giro as in most GTs) to know when to consider it a meaningful sense of what we are heading towards, and not place too much weight on a sprinter (most years) in the top ten on GC in week one.

The guaranteed points can still be seen on the Spreadsheet (column B on the 'Results' tab) when I get that tideid up and share-worthy (probably this evening), but the model of the Green Jersey, which seems to have generated some interest for those not in the overall battle in the Main game in the last few years, looked to be more interesting as a secondary competition.

But the game is only worthwhile in so far as it is of interest to those competing in it: what do others think?
User avatar Armchair cyclist
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13 May 2019 20:56

Stage 3
Worked out even better for the Gaviria teams than looked to be the case initially. Not so good for teams with top 20 GC guys who got caught out in the late crashes, but their losses made space for others to move up on GC.

GAVIRIA RENDON Fernando 144pts for Googolplex, Otoxiep87, Salvarani and Total Package
NAVARRO GARCIA Daniel 28pts for Koronin
MOSCHETTI Matteo 25 5 teams
CARTHY Hugh 22 2
LUDVIGSSON Tobias 20 1
ZAKARIN Ilnur 19 19
CHAVES RUBIO Jhoan Esteban 18 18
FORMOLO Davide 18 6
SIVAKOV Pavel 18 10
AMADOR BIKKAZAKOVA Andrey 17 10
VILLELLA Davide 17 1
BILBAO LOPEZ DE ARMENTIA Pello 15 1
CARUSO Damiano 15 1
DE LA PARTE GONZALEZ Victor 15 2
...
TEN DAM Laurens -12 2
PLAZA MOLINA Ruben -13 4
FRAPPORTI Marco -18 2
DOMBROWSKI Joseph Lloyd -23 1
KNOX James -51 3
KANGERT Tanel -69 7
CARAPAZ MONTENEGRO Richard Antonio -76 5
GEOGHEGAN HART Tao -175 3



1 Otoxiep87 224 (Not only Gaviria, but 5 others who gained 14 or more on the day) (70 Purplish points again)
2 TotalPackage 214 (Similar, but lost points due to Nibali) (40)
3 Salvarani 120 (only 3 others with a double digit gain, but lost lots through Kangert) (25)
4 Googolplex 117 (15)
5 Bminchow 110 (10)
6 Laarsland 96 (7)
7 DJSprtsch 84 (5)
8 Kazistuta, Vladimir 77 (2.5 each)
10 AmisVelo 70 (1)
11 Search 69
12 Del1962, Karaev 68
14 Yellow_Knight 66
15 Squire 60
16 Comodoro 54
17 Nathanptz, PremierAndrew 42
19 Triley36 41
20 SafeBet 39
21 LosBrolin 38
21 Shalgo 38
23 GodChild 32
24 Koronin 29
25 BicycleBoy, Rote_Laterne 25
27 BluesInTheBottle, JustSomeGuy 24
29 LightBing 19
30 Mellow_Velo 18
31 BikeRacer33 4
32 Leadbelly -6
33 Tigerion -13
34 Torcia86 -16
35 Armchair_Cyclist -19
36 Fauniera -30
37 ArchieBoy -31
38 Scrool07 -51
39 Josedin -69
40 Minessa -83
41 Will10 -96
42 Flo -137
43 Carlo_Algatrensig -146
44 ChrisDK -162
45 Tobydawq -166
Collective_Wisdom 88

Purplish points

Two wins in a row: maybe the lack of Nibali from Otoxiep's team was a masterstroke.
Salvarani mmoves into the top ten and Bminchow goes from zero to almost in the top ten.

1 Otoxiep87 140
2 TotalPackage 80
3 Armchair_Cyclist 70
4 Googolplex 40
4 Karaev 40
6 Salvarani 26
7 SafeBet 25
8 Laarsland 17
9 AmisVelo 16
10 Nathanptz 15
11 Bminchow 10
11 Mellow_Velo 10


Standings
Kangert finishing in the Carapaz group at 46 seconds was enough to knock me off my perch, Sivakov remaining among the front group to give Karaev the lead. SafeBet moves from 4th to 2nd, and Nathanptz, Los Brolin and Shalgo each move up 2 among the top ten, which remains dominated by the Roglic/Nibali combo. The top 5 in the day rankings all have double figure improvements in their positions, with the 21 place leap by Total Package being the biggest.
1 Karaev 1264
2 SafeBet 1227
3 Armchair_Cyclist 1221
4 Mellow_Velo 1209
5 Nathanptz 1197
6 LosBrolin 1185
6 Rote_Laterne 1185
6 Shalgo 1185
9 BikeRacer33 1168
10 Leadbelly 1127
11 BicycleBoy 1009
12 Squire 990
13 BluesInTheBottle 962
13 JustSomeGuy 962
15 Tigerion 928
16 Del1962 869
17 Googolplex 842
18 TotalPackage 818
19 LightBing 808
20 GodChild 795
21 Bminchow 758
22 Laarsland 746
23 Salvarani 744
24 Vladimir 730
25 Search 721
26 Tobydawq 714
27 Koronin 698
28 Yellow_Knight 691
29 DJSprtsch 689
30 Fauniera 677
31 AmisVelo 659
32 Torcia86 650
33 Comodoro 637
33 Kazistuta 637
35 Otoxiep87 634
36 Minessa 623
37 Will10 622
38 ArchieBoy 612
39 Flo 601
40 Josedin 597
41 PremierAndrew 593
42 Carlo_Algatrensig 584
43 Scrool07 583
43 Triley36 583
45 ChrisDK 569
Collective_Wisdom 712

The spreadsheet is available at Dropbox, and the updated version of it will be there every evening even if I don't post the link in every stage summary.
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13 May 2019 23:16

Well that's a nuisance.

I had downloaded all the rankings before I went out at about 7pm, although I didn't post the info until I got back at 9:30: how was I supposed to know that they made a mid-evening decision to dock Viviani 50 points?
So the following riders are the following number of points better off, by virtue of moving up the points rankings (he is low enough in GC for it not to make a difference to anyone's score there):
Moschetti Matteo 5
Yates Simon 3
Roglič Primož 2
Cimolai Davide 2
Nizzolo Giacomo 1
López Miguel Ángel 1
Ewan Caleb 1

Which means the day scores are now:
1 Otoxiep87 225
2 TotalPackage 215
3 Salvarani 122
4 Googolplex 118
5 Bminchow 115
6 Laarsland 102
7 DJSprtsch, Kazistuta 84
9 Vladimir 77
10 Karaev 75
11 AmisVelo 71
12 Del1962, Search 69
14 Yellow_Knight 67
15 Squire 62
16 Comodoro 55
17 Nathanptz, PremierAndrew 44
19 Triley36 43
20 SafeBet 41
21 LosBrolin, Shalgo 40
23 GodChild 32
24 Koronin 29
25 BicycleBoy 28
26 BluesInTheBottle, JustSomeGuy, Rote_Laterne 27
29 Mellow_Velo 21
30 LightBing 19
31 BikeRacer33 7
32 Leadbelly -4
33 Tigerion -9
34 Armchair_Cyclist -12
35 Torcia86 -16
36 ArchieBoy, Fauniera -29
38 Scrool07 -48
39 Josedin -68
40 Minessa -82
41 Will10 -95
42 Flo -134
43 Carlo_Algatrensig -144
44 ChrisDK -161
45 Tobydawq -166
Collective_Wisdom 89

So the Purplish point standings are:
1 Otoxiep87 140
2 TotalPackage 80
3 Armchair_Cyclist 70
4 Karaev 41
5 Googolplex 40
6 Salvarani 26
7 SafeBet 25
8 Laarsland 17
9 AmisVelo 15
9 Nathanptz 15
11 Bminchow 10
11 Mellow_Velo 10
The changes gave Karaev 10th on the day, pushing him ahead of Googolplex in this amendment, and removing the differential between Amis Velo and Nathanptz

And the overall standings are now:
1 Karaev 1271
2 SafeBet 1229
3 Armchair_Cyclist 1228
4 Mellow_Velo 1212
5 Nathanptz 1199
6 LosBrolin 1187
6 Rote_Laterne 1187
6 Shalgo 1187
9 BikeRacer33 1171
10 Leadbelly 1129
11 BicycleBoy 1012
12 Squire 992
13 BluesInTheBottle 965
13 JustSomeGuy 965
15 Tigerion 932
16 Del1962 870
17 Googolplex 843
18 TotalPackage 819
19 LightBing 808
20 GodChild 795
21 Bminchow 763
22 Laarsland 752
23 Salvarani 746
24 Vladimir 730
25 Search 721
26 Tobydawq 714
27 Koronin 698
28 Yellow_Knight 692
29 DJSprtsch 689
30 Fauniera 678
31 AmisVelo 660
32 Torcia86 650
33 Kazistuta 644
34 Comodoro 638
35 Otoxiep87 635
36 Minessa 624
37 Will10 623
38 ArchieBoy 614
39 Flo 604
40 Josedin 598
41 PremierAndrew 595
42 Carlo_Algatrensig 586
42 Scrool07 586
44 Triley36 585
45 ChrisDK 570
Collective_Wisdom 713

The only actual change in order is that Kazistuta is ahead of, rather than level with, Comodoro in 33rd.

Hope they don't do many of these late adjustments...
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14 May 2019 14:24

Did Gaviria get his points for the win?
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14 May 2019 17:53

Stage 4
Another reduced sprint stage that gets blown apart by last 10km accidents, to rather more catastrophic effect than yesterday. On the other hand, some of yesterday's losers get points back.

CARAPAZ MONTENEGRO Richard Antonio 141pts 5 teams
EWAN Caleb 76 20
FORMOLO Davide 39 6
ZAKARIN Ilnur 32 19
VUILLERMOZ Alexis 31 2
JUNGELS Bob 30 4
GEOGHEGAN HART Tao 29 3
GALLOPIN Tony 28 2
DOMBROWSKI Joseph Lloyd 25 1
...
DE LA PARTE GONZALEZ Victor -15 2
MOSCHETTI Matteo -15 5
AMADOR BIKKAZAKOVA Andrey -17 10
O'CONNOR Ben -24 30
LUDVIGSSON Tobias -31 1
BILBAO LOPEZ DE ARMENTIA Pello -38 1
GAVIRIA RENDON Fernando -51 4
NAVARRO GARCIA Daniel -90 1
DUMOULIN Tom -225 1


The top two on the day both gain from Carapaz and lose through O'Connor, but while Scrool had Ewan, Torcia's other gains were from Formolo and Zakarin.

1 Scrool07, Torcia86 190 (55 Purplish points each)
3 Tobydawq 178 (Carapaz and Formolo, but Carapaz) (25 P pts)
4 Josedin 169 (Carapaz and Frapporti) (15)
5 Laarsland 132 (10)
6 Fauniera 129 (7)
7 ArchieBoy 122 (5)
8 ChrisDK, Kazistuta 114 (2.5 each)
10 BikeRacer33 113 (1)
11 Minessa 111
12 Flo 110
13 Vladimir 105
14 AmisVelo 104
15 Comodoro 94
16 Del1962, Mellow_Velo 89
18 Will10 87
19 Carlo_Algatrensig 86
20 PremierAndrew, Yellow_Knight 83
22 Triley36 82
23 LightBing 72
24 DJSprtsch 64
25 Search 62
26 Otoxiep87 57
27 Googolplex 52
28 Tigerion 43
29 TotalPackage 40
30 Leadbelly 24
31 BicycleBoy 17
32 Bminchow 16
33 SafeBet 15
34 Squire 10
35 Armchair_Cyclist 9
36 Karaev 6
37 JustSomeGuy 2
38 Shalgo -3
39 BluesInTheBottle -11
40 Nathanptz -18
41 LosBrolin, Rote_Laterne -24
43 Salvarani -35
44 Koronin -101
45 GodChild -195
Collective_Wisdom 99


Purplish points
The joint winners today appear in 4th and 5th (Scrool already had some points, Torcia didn't), as does, just, Tobydawq
1 Otoxiep87 140
2 TotalPackage 80
3 Armchair_Cyclist 70
4 Scrool07 61
5 Torcia86 55
6 Karaev 41
7 Googolplex 40
8 Laarsland 27
9 Salvarani 26
10 SafeBet 25
10 Tobydawq 25

Standings
The two teams that have Roglic, Nibali and Ewan rise to the top, Mellow Velo coming from 4th to top spot, and BikeRacer33 jumping 7 places to second. BicycleBoy is the only non-Roglic team over 1000 points (Yates, Nibali, Gallopin and Chaves being the main contributors). Three teams had a double digit improvement in position, Scrool07 going up 15.

1 Mellow_Velo 1301
2 BikeRacer33 1284
3 Karaev 1277
4 SafeBet 1244
5 Armchair_Cyclist 1237
6 Shalgo 1184
7 Nathanptz 1181
8 LosBrolin 1163
8 Rote_Laterne 1163
10 Leadbelly 1153
11 BicycleBoy 1029
12 Squire 1002
13 Tigerion 975
14 JustSomeGuy 967
15 Del1962 959
16 BluesInTheBottle 954
17 Googolplex 895
18 Tobydawq 892
19 Laarsland 884
20 LightBing 880
21 TotalPackage 859
22 Torcia86 840
23 Vladimir 835
24 Fauniera 807
25 Search 783
26 Bminchow 779
27 Scrool07 776
28 Yellow_Knight 775
29 Josedin 767
30 AmisVelo 764
31 Kazistuta 758
32 DJSprtsch 753
33 ArchieBoy 736
34 Minessa 735
35 Comodoro 732
36 Flo 714
37 Salvarani 711
38 Will10 710
39 Otoxiep87 692
40 ChrisDK 684
41 PremierAndrew 678
42 Carlo_Algatrensig 672
43 Triley36 667
44 GodChild 600
45 Koronin 597
Collective_Wisdom 812
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Re:

14 May 2019 17:57

Salvarani wrote:Did Gaviria get his points for the win?


Yes: that was announced long before I started compiling the numbers, so it was in the initial data I put up from stage 3. The late update was only changes resulting from Viviani falling from 4th in the points classification.
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15 May 2019 17:47

Stage 5
A bit of a damp squib, and a very damp squib at that. The early time taking probably contributed to the almost total lack of GC position change, so points for the stage are the main element today, along with pink jersey points and some shuffling of the points classification.

GAVIRIA RENDON Fernando 55pts 4 teams
EWAN Caleb 20 20
MOSCHETTI Matteo 17 5
ROGLIC Primoz 16 11
GIBBONS Ryan 7 3
...
MAJKA Rafal -2 2
YATES Simon -3 4
CARAPAZ MONTENEGRO Richard Antonio -5 5
DUMOULIN Tom -15 1


1 Googolplex, Otoxiep87, TotalPackage 75 (Gaviria and Ewan) (45 Purplish points each)
4 Salvarani 55 (Gaviria) (15)
5 Kazistuta, Laarsland 37 (Ewan & Moschetti) (8.5)
7 BikeRacer33, Mellow_Velo 36 (Ewan & Roglic) (4)
9 Armchair_Cyclist, Karaev 33 (Roglic & Moschetti) (1.5)
11 Will10 27
12 AmisVelo, Carlo_Algatrensig, ChrisDK, Comodoro, Fauniera, Flo, Minessa, PremierAndrew, Triley36 20
21 Del1962 18
22 Bminchow, Tigerion 17
24 Leadbelly, LosBrolin, Nathanptz, Rote_Laterne, SafeBet, Shalgo, Squire 16
31 Scrool07 15
32 LightBing 5
33 JustSomeGuy 4
34 DJSprtsch, Koronin, Search, Vladimir, Yellow_Knight 0
39 BicycleBoy, BluesInTheBottle, ArchieBoy, Josedin, Tobydawq, Torcia86 -5
45 GodChild -15
Collective_Wisdom 20


GodChild sees 58% of his budget step off after 1 km...

Purplish points
Googolplex moves up from 7th to make the three prize sharers of today the top three: Salvarani also makes progress within the top ten, and Kazistuta has the best jump (19th to joint 12th)
1 Otoxiep87 185
2 TotalPackage 125
3 Googolplex 85
4 Armchair_Cyclist 71.5
5 Scrool07 61
6 Torcia86 55
7 Karaev 42.5
8 Salvarani 41
9 Laarsland 35.5
10 SafeBet 25
10 Tobydawq 25

Standings
Only minor gains and losses, so not much change: Armchair Cyclist is the only rider moving forward in the top ten, and only by one place, although Otoxiep gets an 8 place improvement.

1 Mellow_Velo 1337
2 BikeRacer33 1320
3 Karaev 1310
4 Armchair_Cyclist 1270
5 SafeBet 1260
6 Shalgo 1200
7 Nathanptz 1197
8 LosBrolin 1179
8 Rote_Laterne 1179
10 Leadbelly 1169
11 BicycleBoy 1026
12 Squire 1018
13 Tigerion 992
14 Del1962 977
15 JustSomeGuy 971
16 Googolplex 970
17 BluesInTheBottle 951
18 TotalPackage 934
19 Laarsland 921
20 Tobydawq 887
21 LightBing 885
22 Torcia86 835
22 Vladimir 835
24 Fauniera 827
25 Bminchow 796
26 Kazistuta 795
27 Scrool07 791
28 AmisVelo 784
29 Search 783
30 Yellow_Knight 775
31 Otoxiep87 767
32 Salvarani 766
33 Josedin 762
34 Minessa 755
35 DJSprtsch 753
36 Comodoro 752
37 Will10 737
38 Flo 734
39 ArchieBoy 731
40 ChrisDK 704
41 PremierAndrew 698
42 Carlo_Algatrensig 692
43 Triley36 687
44 Koronin 597
45 GodChild 585
Collective_Wisdom 832

The top two share 5 of their riders; it is O'Connor, Clarke and Orsini for Mellow Velo against Gastauer, Poljanski and Garioso for BikeRacer33.

Tomorrow should see a number of riders who don't really belong in the GC top 30 drop down, so we might begin to get a better idea of how those cheaper "He might get a few GC points" type picks are going to contribute.
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16 May 2019 15:35

Hmm: this will be a fairly substantial change in the update...
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16 May 2019 17:52

Stage 6

L'Aquila-esque on the eve of L'Aquila.

If anyone had included Conti, that woiuld have been a 538 point gain on the day. Only 5 selected riders in profit, there were a few who lost less than 20 not shown.

CARBONI Giovanni 364 2 (Shalgo and Vladimir)
MASNADA Fausto 287 3 (ArchieBoy, Carlo A and Triley)
ANTUNES Amaro Manuel Reposo 194 2 (JSG, Leadbelly)
AMADOR BIKKAZAKOVA Andrey 137 10
PLAZA MOLINA Ruben 24 4
...
LANDA MEANA Mikel -20 32
VUILLERMOZ Alexis -20 2
EWAN Caleb -27 20
ZAKARIN Ilnur -28 19
SIVAKOV Pavel -30 10
CARAPAZ MONTENEGRO Richard Antonio -34 5
GALLOPIN Tony -38 2
CHAVES RUBIO Jhoan Esteban -42 18
CARTHY Hugh -48 2
BILBAO LOPEZ DE ARMENTIA Pello -54 1
DE LA PARTE GONZALEZ Victor -60 2
FORMOLO Davide -73 6
JUNGELS Bob -84 4
CARUSO Damiano -95 1
MAJKA Rafal -138 2
NIBALI Vincenzo -219 43
YATES Simon -278 4
ROGLIC Primoz -392 11



1 Vladimir 123 (Carboni and Amador, but Nibali and 4 others who dropped) (70 Purplish points)
2 Triley36 -7 (Nibali the only big loser to cancel out Masnada: same with the other 2 in single figure losses) (40)
3 Carlo_Algatrensig -13 (25)
4 ArchieBoy -24 (15)
5 Shalgo -138 (Carboni and Amador, more than cancelled out by Roglic and Nibali) (10)
6 TotalPackage -207 (7)
7 Minessa -214 (5)
8 Otoxiep87 -220 (3)
9 Bminchow -252 (2)
10 ChrisDK -286 (1)
11 Salvarani -287
12 GodChild -291
13 Josedin -301
14 PremierAndrew -302
15 Koronin -306
16 Scrool07 -308
17 Flo -318
18 Will10 -329
19 Comodoro -332
20 Fauniera -336
20 Kazistuta -336
22 Del1962 -345
23 AmisVelo -348
24 LightBing -353
25 JustSomeGuy -356
26 Googolplex -368
27 DJSprtsch -382
27 Torcia86 -382
29 Yellow_Knight -393
30 Search -401
31 Leadbelly -413
32 Laarsland -417
33 Tobydawq -433
34 Rote_Laterne -478
35 LosBrolin -502
36 Squire -508
37 Nathanptz -512
38 BluesInTheBottle -547
38 Tigerion -547
40 BicycleBoy -561
41 Armchair_Cyclist -673
42 BikeRacer33 -680
43 SafeBet -681
44 Mellow_Velo -688
45 Karaev -691
Collective_Wisdom -237


Purplish points
Vladimir only had 2 points before today, and -7 points is enough to take Triley from no score to the top ten.
1 Otoxiep87 188
2 TotalPackage 132
3 Googolplex 85
4 Vladimir 72
5 Armchair_Cyclist 71.5
6 Scrool07 61
7 Torcia86 55
8 Karaev 42.5
9 Salvarani 41
10 Triley36 40

12 teams still not off the mark in this one.


Standings
In a few days, we might return to something like the table was yesterday, but for now, it is very different. Shalgo is the only one of the top ten this morning who had 2 of today's positive riders (Carboni and Amador), and goes from 6th to top. The only others who retain a top ten place are Leadbelly (through Antunes), and Nathanptz, Rote Laterne and Los Brolin (all courtesy of Amador). The top 5 this morning were the bottom 5 in today's scores, and now find themselves in the 11th to 18th range.

Vladimir goes from 22nd to second. Of the new entrants in the top ten, three have jumped more than 30 places. A 33 place rise is not enough to give Carlo Algatrensig the climber laurels, nor is 34 places for ArchieBoy: it is Triley who gets that honour, moving 35 places.


1 Shalgo 1062
2 Vladimir 958
3 Leadbelly 756
4 TotalPackage 727
5 ArchieBoy 707
6 Rote_Laterne 701
7 Nathanptz 685
8 Triley36 680
9 Carlo_Algatrensig 679
10 LosBrolin 677
11 Mellow_Velo 649
12 BikeRacer33 640
13 Del1962 632
14 Karaev 619
15 JustSomeGuy 615
16 Googolplex 602
17 Armchair_Cyclist 597
18 SafeBet 579
19 Otoxiep87 547
20 Bminchow 544
21 Minessa 541
22 LightBing 532
23 Squire 510
24 Laarsland 504
25 Fauniera 491
26 Scrool07 483
27 Salvarani 479
28 BicycleBoy 465
29 Josedin 461
30 Kazistuta 459
31 Tobydawq 454
32 Torcia86 453
33 Tigerion 445
34 AmisVelo 436
35 Comodoro 420
36 ChrisDK 418
37 Flo 416
38 Will10 408
39 BluesInTheBottle 404
40 PremierAndrew 396
41 Search 382
41 Yellow_Knight 382
43 DJSprtsch 371
44 GodChild 294
45 Koronin 291
Collective_Wisdom 595
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16 May 2019 18:04

Hah, I did not expect that Carboni would give me this moment of glory. Well, it won't last long.
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16 May 2019 19:13

I have Conti as a unique pick in the yearly CQ game. I guess I should have included him here as well :eek:
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Re:

16 May 2019 22:30

vladimir wrote:I have Conti as a unique pick in the yearly CQ game. I guess I should have included him here as well :eek:



Well at least you get some stage points for him there. :D
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17 May 2019 17:32

Stage 7
Another breakaway, although to rather less dramatic effect. The long term effect of today's winner gaining time might be greater than yesterday's though.

BILBAO LOPEZ DE ARMENTIA Pello 133 pts for Koronin
GALLOPIN Tony 84 for Bicycle Boy and Vladimir
FORMOLO Davide 67 for DJ Sprtsch, Laarsland, Minessa, Tobydawq, Torcia86 and Vladimir
EWAN Caleb 10 for 20 teams
CARAPAZ MONTENEGRO Richard Antonio 9 5
GEOGHEGAN HART Tao 8 3
VILLELLA Davide 8 1
VUILLERMOZ Alexis 8 2
...
NIBALI Vincenzo -12 43
ROGLIC Primoz -13 11
YATES Simon -14 4
DE PLUS Laurens -15 1
MODOLO Sacha -15 6
CARUSO Damiano -55 1
GAVIRIA RENDON Fernando -55 4
CARBONI Giovanni -68 2

Gaviria at least leaves his 4 teams with 125 stage points, so some compensation there.


1 Koronin 134 (70 Purplish points)
2 Laarsland, Vladimir 81 (32.5)
4 Torcia86 78 (15)
5 Minessa 77 (10)
6 Tobydawq 76 (7)
7 BicycleBoy 62 (5)
8 DJSprtsch 52 (3)
9 AmisVelo 24 (2)
10 ChrisDK 22 (1)
11 Flo 20
12 Fauniera 18
13 Triley36 16
14 PremierAndrew 12
15 ArchieBoy 11
16 Del1962 10
17 Will10 9
18 Squire 6
19 Bminchow 2
19 Scrool07 2
21 Comodoro 1
22 Carlo_Algatrensig -1
23 Josedin, Yellow_Knight -4
25 Kazistuta -5
26 Armchair_Cyclist -8
27 Mellow_Velo -9
28 LosBrolin -10
29 Tigerion -12
30 BikeRacer33, SafeBet -13
32 Karaev, Search -15
34 Nathanptz, Rote_Laterne -17
36 BluesInTheBottle -20
37 GodChild, Leadbelly -21
39 JustSomeGuy -23
40 LightBing -24
41 Googolplex, TotalPackage -41
43 Salvarani -47
44 Shalgo -83
45 Otoxiep87 -84
Collective_Wisdom 18

Purplish Points

Koronin shows how high a day win will get you from zero score, Laarsland re-enters the top ten, and Vladimir gets onto the virtual podium.
1 Otoxiep87 188
2 TotalPackage 132
3 Vladimir 104.5
4 Googolplex 85
5 Armchair_Cyclist 71.5
6 Koronin 70
6 Torcia86 70
8 Laarsland 68
9 Scrool07 61
10 Karaev 42.5


Standings

Yesterday's top two had a good margin by virtue of having Carboni in second place: he has fallen to third, but that does not diminish their margin much. Vladimir has the men second and third across the line today, so that puts him in the lead. ArchieBoy, Triley and Carlo Algatrensig all move the right direction in the top ten, and Tobydawq takes a ten place jump.

1 Vladimir 1039
2 Shalgo 979
3 Leadbelly 735
4 ArchieBoy 718
5 Triley36 696
6 TotalPackage 686
7 Rote_Laterne 684
8 Carlo_Algatrensig 678
9 Nathanptz 668
10 LosBrolin 667
11 Del1962 642
12 Mellow_Velo 640
13 BikeRacer33 627
14 Minessa 618
15 Karaev 604
16 JustSomeGuy 592
17 Armchair_Cyclist 589
18 Laarsland 585
19 SafeBet 566
20 Googolplex 561
21 Bminchow 546
22 Torcia86 531
23 Tobydawq 530
24 BicycleBoy 527
25 Squire 516
26 Fauniera 509
27 LightBing 508
28 Scrool07 485
29 Otoxiep87 463
30 AmisVelo 460
31 Josedin 457
32 Kazistuta 454
33 ChrisDK 440
34 Flo 436
35 Tigerion 433
36 Salvarani 432
37 Koronin 425
38 DJSprtsch 423
39 Comodoro 421
40 Will10 417
41 PremierAndrew 408
42 BluesInTheBottle 384
43 Yellow_Knight 378
44 Search 367
45 GodChild 273
Collective_Wisdom 613
User avatar Armchair cyclist
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18 May 2019 01:11

Yay!!!!! Finally a good day. Well at least for one day my very unique team paid off. Nice to actually get some of the purplish points and get my name on that board. Doubt it will be there by the end, but I'll take what I can get. I shall happily take a day win and call it a great Giro.
User avatar Koronin
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18 May 2019 16:18

Stage 8
Very little other than the stage points today: highest GC change is 32nd.

EWAN Caleb 70 20
FRAPPORTI Marco 14 2
CIMOLAI Davide 5 4
DOMBROWSKI Joseph Lloyd 4 1
GEOGHEGAN HART Tao 4 3
KANGERT Tanel 4 7
O'CONNOR Ben 4 30
CICCONE Giulio 3 3
NIZZOLO Giacomo 2 6
HENAO GOMEZ Sebastian 1 2
...
BILBAO LOPEZ DE ARMENTIA Pello -1 1
ROGLIC Primoz -1 11
MASNADA Fausto -2 3
CARBONI Giovanni -4 2
PLAZA MOLINA Ruben -7 4
VILLELLA Davide -10 1

1 Flo 83 (Ewan, Geoghegan, O'Connor and Cimolai) (70 Purplish points)
2 Scrool07 79 (40)
3 Carlo_Algatrensig 78 (25)
4 Fauniera 77 (15)
5 PremierAndrew 76 (10)
6 Comodoro, Del1962, Googolplex, Laarsland, Minessa, Otoxiep87, Tigerion, TotalPackage, Triley36, Will10 74 (1.8 easch)
16 Mellow_Velo 73
17 Kazistuta 72
18 ChrisDK 71
19 BikeRacer33 69
20 AmisVelo 64
21 Josedin 19
22 LightBing 14
23 Salvarani 13
24 Armchair_Cyclist 8
25 ArchieBoy 7
26 BluesInTheBottle, Bminchow, JustSomeGuy, Search, Squire, Tobydawq, Torcia86 4
33 Karaev, Koronin, LosBrolin, Nathanptz, SafeBet 3
38 Yellow_Knight 2
39 DJSprtsch, GodChild 0
41 Shalgo, Vladimir -1
43 BicycleBoy -3
44 Rote_Laterne -4
45 Leadbelly -8
Collective_Wisdom 74


Purplish points

Flo, as day winner, crashes into the top ten, although that will not necessarily be the case after tomorrow. Scrool jumps from 9th to 4th.
1 Otoxiep87 189.8
2 TotalPackage 133.8
3 Vladimir 104.5
4 Scrool07 101
5 Googolplex 86.8
6 Flo 76
7 Armchair_Cyclist 71.5
8 Koronin 70
8 Torcia86 70
10 Laarsland 69.8

Standings

On a day of low scores, the top two were never going to be threatened, but in the congested area below, any team with Evans is likely to have moved up, including Triley36, Total Package and Carlo Algatrensig into 3rd, 4th and 5th respectively, and Del1962, Mellow Velo and BikeRacer33 into the top ten. The biggest risers are Fauniera and Scrool07 (6 spots).

1 Vladimir 1038
2 Shalgo 978
3 Triley36 770
4 TotalPackage 760
5 Carlo_Algatrensig 756
6 Leadbelly 727
7 ArchieBoy 725
8 Del1962 716
9 Mellow_Velo 713
10 BikeRacer33 696
11 Minessa 692
12 Rote_Laterne 680
13 Nathanptz 671
14 LosBrolin 670
15 Laarsland 659
16 Googolplex 635
17 Karaev 607
18 Armchair_Cyclist 597
19 JustSomeGuy 596
20 Fauniera 586
21 SafeBet 569
22 Scrool07 564
23 Bminchow 550
24 Otoxiep87 537
25 Torcia86 535
26 Tobydawq 534
27 Kazistuta 526
28 AmisVelo 524
28 BicycleBoy 524
30 LightBing 522
31 Squire 520
32 Flo 519
33 ChrisDK 511
34 Tigerion 507
35 Comodoro 495
36 Will10 491
37 PremierAndrew 484
38 Josedin 476
39 Salvarani 445
40 Koronin 428
41 DJSprtsch 423
42 BluesInTheBottle 388
43 Yellow_Knight 380
44 Search 371
45 GodChild 273
Collective_Wisdom 687

Tomorrow should see rather more happening in the game. But to whose benefit?
User avatar Armchair cyclist
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19 May 2019 18:09

Stage 9 San Marino TT


One rider is the big winner of the day: even for most of the other riders in profit, it is more a case of it was not as bad for them as for some.

ROGLIC Primoz 381pts 11 teams
AMADOR BIKKAZAKOVA Andrey 65 10
NIBALI Vincenzo 51 43
CAMPENAERTS Victor 40 1
JUNGELS Bob 39 4
MASNADA Fausto 35 3
CARTHY Hugh 29 2
KANGERT Tanel 28 7
BILBAO LOPEZ DE ARMENTIA Pello 18 1
CARAPAZ MONTENEGRO Richard Antonio 12 5
ZAKARIN Ilnur 10 19
O'CONNOR Ben 8 30
...
CHAVES RUBIO Jhoan Esteban -8 18
VUILLERMOZ Alexis -10 2
ORSINI Umberto -15 4
ANTUNES Amaro Manuel Reposo -25 2
FORMOLO Davide -26 6
YATES Simon -34 4
GALLOPIN Tony -50 2
CARBONI Giovanni -167 2


1 Nathanptz 505 (Roglic, Nibali, Amador and o'Connor) (70 purplish points)
2 LosBrolin 504 (those that Nathan has, but Montaguti gained one and Landa lost 2) (40)
3 Rote_Laterne 503 (Like Los Brolin, but without Montaguti) (25)
4 Armchair_Cyclist 457 (15)
5 Karaev, SafeBet 430 (8.5 each)
7 BikeRacer33 424 (5)
8 Mellow_Velo 417 (3)
9 Squire 398 (2)
10 Leadbelly 390 (1)
11 Shalgo 321
12 Bminchow 169
13 LightBing 159
14 Del1962, TotalPackage 124
16 Minessa 116
17 Koronin 107
18 Will10 106
19 ArchieBoy 104
20 Googolplex, Search 98
22 Carlo_Algatrensig 96
23 Salvarani 95
24 Yellow_Knight 90
25 Fauniera 85
26 Triley36 82
27 Flo, Scrool07 69
29 Comodoro, PremierAndrew 67
31 AmisVelo, Tobydawq 65
33 Josedin 55
34 Torcia86 53
35 ChrisDK, Kazistuta 49
37 GodChild 43
38 Laarsland 31
39 DJSprtsch, Tigerion 25
41 Otoxiep87 8
42 BluesInTheBottle 2
43 JustSomeGuy -8
44 BicycleBoy -33
45 Vladimir -121


Purplish points
Armchair Cyclist moves up one place, but immediately behind Nathanptz has a 14 place jump, even if he did only get his day win by one point.

1 Otoxiep87 189.8
2 TotalPackage 133.8
3 Vladimir 104.5
4 Scrool07 101
5 Googolplex 86.8
6 Armchair_Cyclist 86.5
7 Nathanptz 85
8 Flo 76
9 Koronin 70
9 Torcia86 70

Standings
The ten Roglic & Nibali teams once again occupy the top ten places, but in a rather different order than before the stage 6 breakaway.
Because of Carboni, Shalgo was already the best placed of the Roglic teams, so no surprise that he regains the lead. The next three places are taken by Amador teams,the top three on the day scores, each with a 10 place rise. There are three more teams re-entering the top ten, but it is just outside that that we find the biggest riser on this stage: Nibali-less Roglic team Squire with a 20 place jump.

1 Shalgo 1299
2 Rote_Laterne 1183
3 Nathanptz 1176
4 LosBrolin 1174
5 Mellow_Velo 1130
6 BikeRacer33 1120
7 Leadbelly 1117
8 Armchair_Cyclist 1054
9 Karaev 1037
10 SafeBet 999
11 Squire 918
12 Vladimir 917
13 TotalPackage 884
14 Carlo_Algatrensig 852
14 Triley36 852
16 Del1962 840
17 ArchieBoy 829
18 Minessa 808
19 Googolplex 733
20 Bminchow 719
21 Laarsland 690
22 LightBing 681
23 Fauniera 671
24 Scrool07 633
25 Tobydawq 599
26 Will10 597
27 AmisVelo 589
28 Flo 588
28 JustSomeGuy 588
28 Torcia86 588
31 Kazistuta 575
32 Comodoro 562
33 ChrisDK 560
34 PremierAndrew 551
35 Otoxiep87 545
36 Salvarani 540
37 Koronin 535
38 Tigerion 532
39 Josedin 531
40 BicycleBoy 491
41 Yellow_Knight 470
42 Search 469
43 DJSprtsch 448
44 BluesInTheBottle 390
45 GodChild 316
Collective_Wisdom 811

Maybe I'll get a rest day tomorrow too.
User avatar Armchair cyclist
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20 May 2019 00:13

Well that is my chances shot. Oh well, it was always more of a heart than head time that is did at the last minute.
User avatar Tigerion
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Re:

20 May 2019 07:57

Tigerion wrote:Well that is my chances shot. Oh well, it was always more of a heart than head time that is did at the last minute.


You are 2nd of the 4 Yates teams, if that is any consolation...
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20 May 2019 16:39

Rest Day 1

9 days in

Top scoring riders
* indicates out of the race, cannot add to tally.
ROGLIC Primoz 662 points 11 teams
CONTI Valerio 627 0
MASNADA Fausto 335 3
PETERS Nans 318 0
ROJAS GIL Jose Joaquin 304 0
ACKERMANN Pascal 290 0

AMADOR BIKKAZAKOVA Andrey 217 10
BILBAO LOPEZ DE ARMENTIA Pello 208 1
ANTUNES Amaro Manuel Reposo 191 2
EWAN Caleb 190 20
MADOUAS Valentin 172 0

CARBONI Giovanni 161 2
NIBALI Vincenzo 160 43
CARAPAZ MONTENEGRO Richard Antonio 151 5
MOLLEMA Bauke 144 0
DEMARE Arnaud 139 0

GAVIRIA RENDON Fernando* 125 4
SERRY Pieter 111 0

FORMOLO Davide 103 6
CATTANEO Mattia 101 0

JUNGELS Bob 101 4

Other riders costing 500 or more selected by at least 1 team
YATES Simon 97 4
MAJKA Rafal 81 2
ZAKARIN Ilnur 60 19
GEOGHEGAN HART Tao 47 3
LANDA MEANA Mikel 44 32
SOSA CUERVO Ivan Ramiro 15 2
DUMOULIN Tom* 10 1


Top scoring for Guaranteed points:
ROGLIC Primoz 237 11
ACKERMANN Pascal 205 0

EWAN Caleb 150 20
GAVIRIA RENDON Fernando 125 4
CONTI Valerio 117 0
DEMARE Arnaud 84 0
VIVIANI Elia 80 0

BILBAO LOPEZ DE ARMENTIA Pello 72 1
CARAPAZ MONTENEGRO Richard Antonio 70 5
MASNADA Fausto 70 3
YATES Simon 41 4
CAMPENAERTS Victor 40 1
GALLOPIN Tony 40 2
NIBALI Vincenzo 40 43

The riders who have put us where we are
100+ point riders, and any costing over 500, shown.

The top ten teams all have Roglic and Nibali, plus:
1 Shalgo 1299 Amador, Carboni, Landa
2 Rote_Laterne 1183 Amador & Landa
3 Nathanptz 1176 Amador
4 LosBrolin 1174 Amador & Landa
5 Mellow_Velo 1130 Ewan
6 BikeRacer33 1120 Ewan
7 Leadbelly 1117 Antunes & Landa
8 Armchair_Cyclist 1054
9 Karaev 1037
10 SafeBet 999 Landa

Assume that Nibali is in every team unless noted
11 Squire 918 Roglic, Landa & Zakarin, no Nibali
12 Vladimir 917 Amador, Carboni and Formolo, Landa & Zakarin
13 TotalPackage 884 Amador, Ewan and Gaviria*, Landa & Zakarin
14 Carlo_Algatrensig 852 Masnada and Ewan, Geoghegan Hart
14 Triley36 852 Masnada and Ewan, Landa
16 Del1962 840 Amador and Ewan, Landa & Zakarin
17 ArchieBoy 829 Masnada and Carapaz, Landa
18 Minessa 808 Amador, Ewan and Formolo, Landa
19 Googolplex 733 Ewan and Gaviria*, Landa
20 Bminchow 719 Amador and Jungels, Landa & Zakarin
21 Laarsland 690 Ewan and Formolo, Landa & Zakarin
22 LightBing 681 Amador & Jungels, Majka & Zakarin
23 Fauniera 671 Ewan, Landa & Zakarin
24 Scrool07 633 Ewan and Carapaz, Landa
25 Tobydawq 599 Carapaz and Formolo, Landa
26 Will10 597 Ewan, Landa
27 AmisVelo 589 Ewan, Landa & Zakarin
28 Flo 588 Ewan, Landa, Geoghegan Hart and Zakarin
28 JustSomeGuy 588 Antunes, Yates
28 Torcia86 588 Carapaz, Formolo, Landa & Zakarin
31 Kazistuta 575 Ewan, Landa & Zakarin
32 Comodoro 562 Ewan, Landa & Zakarin
33 ChrisDK 560 Ewan, Sosa, Geoghegan Hart and Landa
34 PremierAndrew 551 Ewan, Landa & Zakarin
35 Otoxiep87 545 Ewan, Gaviria*, Landa & Zakarin; no Nibali
36 Salvarani 540 Gaviria*, Landa & Zakarin
37 Koronin 535 Bilbao, Landa
38 Tigerion 532Ewan, Yates
39 Josedin 531 Carapaz
40 BicycleBoy 491 Yates
41 Yellow_Knight 470 Jungels, Landa & Zakarin
42 Search 469 Jungles, Landa & Zakarin
43 DJSprtsch 448 Formolo, Landa & Zakarin
44 BluesInTheBottle 390 Yates, Sosa
45 GodChild 316 Dumoulin*


The next two stages should see a swing in favour of the Ewan teams, although there are some other sprinters not mentioned here that might get decent returns, and after that it is really about how far the interlopers (Carboni, Antunes, Amador and Masnada) might fall: Amador has top tenned in the Giro twice before. And in what order the contenders for a high place arise.

When Conti slips from Pink, as he surely must, the top 11 will extend their margin over the rest by 125 points (plus 18 a day) if Roglic takes over: should Nibali get into position for his third Giro win, we are (apologies, Squire and Otoxiep) pretty much as we stand.


And although it is no longer the "official" secondary competition, the guaranteed points standings (so that you know what your score is if all your riders decide that they enjoyed the rest day so much that they take the next two weeks off as well) are:

1 BikeRacer33 427
1 Mellow_Velo 427
3 Googolplex 328
4 Armchair_Cyclist 317
4 TotalPackage 317
6 Karaev 302
7 Rote_Laterne 294
8 Leadbelly 293
9 Shalgo 289
10 Otoxiep87 283
11 LosBrolin 279
11 Nathanptz 279
11 Triley36 279
14 Carlo_Algatrensig 278
14 Scrool07 278
16 SafeBet 277
17 Squire 242
18 Laarsland 240
19 Tigerion 231
20 Kazistuta 228
21 Minessa 227
22 Flo 212
23 ChrisDK 210
23 Will10 210
25 PremierAndrew 202
26 Fauniera 200
27 Del1962 199
28 ArchieBoy 197
29 Salvarani 192
30 Comodoro 191
31 AmisVelo 190
32 Koronin 152
33 Tobydawq 145
34 BicycleBoy 136
35 Torcia86 135
36 Josedin 122
37 Vladimir 117
38 JustSomeGuy 89
39 BluesInTheBottle 81
40 Bminchow 72
41 DJSprtsch 68
42 LightBing 61
43 Yellow_Knight 57
44 GodChild 51
45 Search 46
Collective_Wisdom 192

If you still have an appetite for numbers from this game, the spreadsheet, as ever, is on Dropbox.
User avatar Armchair cyclist
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21 May 2019 23:11

Stage 10

No selected rider in the top three on the day, no-one getting the pink jersey points, no change in GC position among those who get more than the 15 finisher points, no Mountain classification points on offer, just a handful of stage points and a slight reshuffle in the lower half of the Ciclamino top ten. The effects of today's stage on tomorrow's start line might change the game more than the stage itself did.

EWAN Caleb 15 20
CIMOLAI Davide 14 4
NIZZOLO Giacomo 10 6
...
BILBAO LOPEZ DE ARMENTIA Pello -1 1
MOSCHETTI Matteo -4 5
and this time I have shown every rider selected by our teams who had a change today.


1 Flo, Scrool07 29 (55 each)
3 Carlo_Algatrensig, PremierAndrew, Triley36 25 (16.67 each)
6 Kazistuta 21 (7)
7 AmisVelo, BikeRacer33, ChrisDK, Comodoro, Del1962, Fauniera, Googolplex, Mellow_Velo, Minessa, Otoxiep87, Tigerion, TotalPackage, Will10 15 (0.85 each)
20 ArchieBoy, Salvarani 14
22 Laarsland 11
23 Josedin , Yellow_Knight 10
25 BicycleBoy, BluesInTheBottle, DJSprtsch, GodChild, JustSomeGuy, Leadbelly, LightBing, LosBrolin, Nathanptz, Rote_Laterne, SafeBet, Search, Shalgo, Squire, Tobydawq, Torcia86, Vladimir 0
42 Koronin -1
43 Armchair_Cyclist, Bminchow, Karaev -4
Collective_Wisdom 15


Purplish points

At least the points won in this classification are just as many as they are in a TT or a major mountain stage. Scrool07 moves up to 2nd, Flo is up 4 to 4th, and Premier Andrew had a jump of 8 places. Because we are abut halfway through, and because I had intended putting it in the rest day update but forgot, here is the full table so that some can see just how badly they are doing.

1 Otoxiep87 190.65
2 Scrool07 156
3 TotalPackage 134.65
4 Flo 131
5 Vladimir 104.5
6 Googolplex 87.65
7 Armchair_Cyclist 86.5
8 Nathanptz 85
9 Koronin, Torcia86 70
11 Laarsland 69.8
12 Carlo_Algatrensig 66.67
13 Triley36 58.47
14 Karaev 51
15 LosBrolin 42.5
16 Salvarani 41
17 SafeBet 33.5
18 Tobydawq 32
19 Rote_Laterne 30
20 PremierAndrew 29.67
21 Fauniera 22.85
22 Kazistuta 22
23 ArchieBoy 20
24 AmisVelo, BikeRacer33, Mellow_Velo 17.85
27 Minessa 17.65
28 Josedin 15
29 Shalgo 12.5
30 Bminchow 12
31 DJSprtsch 7
32 ChrisDK 5.35
33 BicycleBoy 5
34 Comodoro 4.65
35 Del1962, Tigerion, Will10 2.65
38 Leadbelly, Squire 2
40 BluesInTheBottle, GodChild, JustSomeGuy, LightBing, Search, Yellow_Knight 0

Standings
Surprisingly, there was some change, although you have to look down to Fauniera in 21st to find anyone changing position here.
Even more surprisingly, these margins managed to generate a 3 place boost in position for Flo

1 Shalgo 1299
2 Rote_Laterne 1183
3 Nathanptz 1176
4 LosBrolin 1174
5 Mellow_Velo 1145
6 BikeRacer33 1135
7 Leadbelly 1117
8 Armchair_Cyclist 1050
9 Karaev 1033
10 SafeBet 999
11 Squire 918
12 Vladimir 917
13 TotalPackage 899
14 Carlo_Algatrensig 877
14 Triley36 877
16 Del1962 855
17 ArchieBoy 843
18 Minessa 823
19 Googolplex 748
20 Bminchow 715
21 Laarsland 701
22 Fauniera 686
23 LightBing 681
24 Scrool07 662
25 Flo 617
26 Will10 612
27 AmisVelo 604
28 Tobydawq 599
29 Kazistuta 596
30 JustSomeGuy 588
30 Torcia86 588
32 Comodoro 577
33 PremierAndrew 576
34 ChrisDK 575
35 Otoxiep87 560
36 Salvarani 554
37 Tigerion 547
38 Josedin 541
39 Koronin 534
40 BicycleBoy 491
41 Yellow_Knight 480
42 Search 469
43 DJSprtsch 448
44 BluesInTheBottle 390
45 GodChild 316
Collective_Wisdom 826

It would be nice to think that this was a uniquely bland stage, but have you seen tomorrow's stage profile?
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