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Amgen Tour of California 2019, May 12-18

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17 May 2019 23:40

If anyone wants to know more about Tadej Pogacar here is a nice article (from a year ago, how time flies :) )-
Get to know Tadej Pogacar:
https://u23cyclingzone.wordpress.com/2018/03/09/get-to-know-tadej-pogacar/

Also he has his own thread would you believe it:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34270

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Re: Re:

18 May 2019 00:23

tobydawq wrote:
johnymax wrote:Tejay is a good guy. He didn't want to win this way, with all the polemics around him so he let the young up and coming riders to battle it out.


The same can be said for the good guy Moscon.


Pretty asinine comment.
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Re:

18 May 2019 00:54

Lequack wrote:If anyone wants to know more about Tadej Pogacar here is a nice article (from a year ago, how time flies :) )-
Get to know Tadej Pogacar:
https://u23cyclingzone.wordpress.com/2018/03/09/get-to-know-tadej-pogacar/

Even before he won L'Avenir.
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18 May 2019 02:30

Its easy for me to sit here in a chair and make observations about a guy who is racing his ars off at the end a hard climb, but Sergio could have used more road and kept more speed (still not a good line, but maybe more momentum coming out). That being said, he still might not have won.
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Re:

18 May 2019 03:18

jmdirt wrote:Its easy for me to sit here in a chair and make observations about a guy who is racing his ars off at the end a hard climb, but Sergio could have used more road and kept more speed (still not a good line, but maybe more momentum coming out). That being said, he still might not have won.

We'll never know if he'd won, but he's actually pretty quick in a sprint, so i'd have given him at least 50%. And i don't think he took an "alternative" line to keep momentum, he just took a bad one. I think he simply misjudged the corner, and went too wide without any benefit of maintaining a higher speed coming out of that corner. In fact, i'm pretty sure he lost speed compared to Pogacar because he had to hit the brakes.

Given the fact that the straight after the corner was rather short, i think it was a good idea to try and be first out of the corner, but clearly, going first into the corner doesn't mean coming first out of the corner, lol

https://www.amgentourofcalifornia.com/latest
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Re:

18 May 2019 04:26

Lequack wrote:Fun fact: UAE are leading both the tour of California and Giro d'Italia.


Yep, good days for UAE. Chapeau Pogacar & Higuita. Has the ToC turned into a U-23 race? :D
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Re:

18 May 2019 05:46

johnymax wrote:Tejay is a good guy. He didn't want to win this way, with all the polemics around him so he let the young up and coming riders to battle it out.
TJ pure class.
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Re: Re:

18 May 2019 05:56

This Charming Man wrote:
johnymax wrote:Tejay is a good guy. He didn't want to win this way, with all the polemics around him so he let the young up and coming riders to battle it out.
TJ pure class.


Pure something...

(More harsh then deserved :D but I could not resist)
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Re: Re:

18 May 2019 05:56

Robert5091 wrote:
Lequack wrote:Fun fact: UAE are leading both the tour of California and Giro d'Italia.


Yep, good days for UAE. Chapeau Pogacar & Higuita. Has the ToC turned into a U-23 race? :D

If this ever was true it would be cool. I am not sure American cycling could handle it because star power right now is however old Peter Fagan is..I stood @1.8k from the finish and the cheers for PS were as loud as for the leading group..I was at the turn where Tejay lost the wheel..he still continued to ride hard but it was a little heartbreaking.
The race was excellent.
There were a couple of OMG moments that didn't have to do w the racers..
The Assos sales trailer.@$330 dollar rain jacket..@$285 dollar bibs..and that wasn't the high end. Rapha also had stuff "on sale" .
Valverde 's bike was on display at the Canyon tent..very cool..and my size!!
A strange cross thread fact..the Manker Flats campground was closed..flood damage and no federal funding for repairs. When people expecting to use it started showing up..complaining about the website not telling race fans of closures..the park people opened it up..nice for people who would have had to travel down the mountain in a rain storm to find a hotel or other camping arrangements.
The women's race was similar to the men's w the mountain shattering everyone..two gals battled each other all the way up..
The Scotchguard held on my tent for @4+ hours of rain that turned to an ice crust this morning!!!
The mountain peaks had a white dusting from the overnight storm..very beautiful.
The amateur event before the race was awesome.all shapes,sizes ages grinding up the grade..it was @18% where I was standing..I observed lots of pain from those pedaling while I enjoyed pork rinds and Cheetos!!!
The number of spectators for the pro events that used bicycles to see the spectacular views was really a positive feeling for me..
My initial reaction to leaving out the ITT was wrong.the race has been excellent
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Re: Re:

18 May 2019 08:03

Moviefan1203 wrote:
tobydawq wrote:
johnymax wrote:Tejay is a good guy. He didn't want to win this way, with all the polemics around him so he let the young up and coming riders to battle it out.


The same can be said for the good guy Moscon.


Pretty asinine comment.


Er, why?

It was a quirky comment building on a quirky comment.

But let me clarify: Whether Tejay is a good or a bad guy, I don't know - I think the former but I don't know him that well. I dislike him as a bike rider, though, and no, I do not really believe that he let the race go away today in the spirit of fair play...

I do not think Moscon did that either, and for the record, I don't think he is a good guy at all. Sorry if that is an asinine opinion.
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18 May 2019 08:15

Wait a second.... why is Kasper Asgreen this good? Should be a serious candidate to get a TdF-spot altho its very crowded on QS.
"Es el mejor con y sin" - someone very bright on Valverde.
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Re: Re:

18 May 2019 08:48

Logic-is-your-friend wrote:
Lequack wrote:If anyone wants to know more about Tadej Pogacar here is a nice article (from a year ago, how time flies :) )-
Get to know Tadej Pogacar:
https://u23cyclingzone.wordpress.com/2018/03/09/get-to-know-tadej-pogacar/

Even before he won L'Avenir.


Here is a more recent article in Italian about him:
https://www.suiveur.it/storie/mano-libera/tadej-pogacar/

Google translated:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.suiveur.it%2Fstorie%2Fmano-libera%2Ftadej-pogacar%2F

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18 May 2019 08:51

So EF will get their 11th ever California podium finish overall yet still without an overall win.
Wij steunen hem, tenzij hij niet genoeg fietst.
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18 May 2019 08:54

Mt Baldy times:

2011 | 24:32 | Leipheimer, Horner
2012 | 25:02 | Gesink
2015 | 24:44 | Alaphilippe
2017 | 25:01 | Talansky, Majka
2019 | 24:29 | Pogačar, Higuita

And interview with him after yesterday's win:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-of-california-pogacar-seizes-control-on-mt-baldy/
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18 May 2019 09:33

Put it this way, Tejay van Garderen comes across as a nice guy, but I've literally never seen a bike race I've thought was improved for him being it, except maybe the 2010 Vuelta where he was a breath of fresh air and actually had some pretty decent puncheur skills honed in his time at Rabobank Developmental, which have been neglected since as he's become more of a diesel climber. Actually, in fairness that's a bit harsh, he's been a decent addition to some editions of the Volta a Catalunya. Tejay's issue is that he is a stage racer who is best suited to low to medium gradients, and a strong TTer, which means that he's not going to be suited to most routes for the Vuelta or Giro, and the Tour is of course the GT with the strongest field. Apart from the win on the Rettenbachferner all of his best stage racing results have come in events in the USA or the Volta a Catalunya, where the climbing tends to be on lower gradient climbs, or on more consistent roads which have been made more recently and with more modern equipment, which suits his style - but means that he's somebody who tends to follow rather than lead when it comes to the big inconsistent climbs and steeper ones that are increasingly being preferred in European races, to try to ensure time gaps due to the increased professionalism in the péloton and the proliferation of train templates.

As a result, I have nothing against Tejay van Garderen, but I have never learned to care about him or his results. As a result, mainly I see him as somebody who's just kind of there in the group of heads of state, until such point as he isn't anymore. A rider who will serve as a good 'option B' if you have a leader who can attack and let Tejay sit in the group as they chase them, or a leader for a team which has no aspirations of actually winning the race but wants a good GC position for the earnings it brings. But as a result, this means he makes nary a dent in my conscience unless something controversial happens, like the nullification of time gaps. Now, it's also true that a lot of people may go back to the 2011 Tour de France and point out that Contador crashed outside the 3km to the finish point, Schleck crashed inside it, so it was only fair and right that Schleck was given +0" time gap (I didn't think that applied on uphill finishes, remembering Schumacher losing the maillot jaune in 2008, but whatever your take, the case can be made), however the Schleck crash blocked the Contador group from getting through to the finish, and increased their deficit, leading to Contador riding to the finish at a similar time to Schleck but losing almost a minute GC-wise. And a lot of people thought that unfair too. It's a problem of the 3k rule - it's a good rule to have to stop absolute carnage when crashes happen, but at the same time, you can't just extend the rule indefinitely to any rider who crashes at any time, because crashing is just a part of bike racing, so at some point there has to be a cutoff and there will then be an issue surrounding it.

Nullifying Tejay's timegap for being baulked by another group that crashed would have been controversial enough with the 2011 precedent in mind but it would have been reasonable, considering people's issue with the Contador timeloss, however with that other crash being outside the 3k, with Tejay being the only American in the top 10 (and with, let's be honest, American cycling rather ailing at the moment, with none of the new prospects looking like assuming the GC contender mantle that the American general public needs, as the Lance days have perpetuated the all-about-Le-Tour mindset there, one of the few immediately recognizable names to the fans there), the decision to nullify all time gaps and put him back into his leading position was bound to attract controversy. I mean, considering all the flak other race organisers have received for blatant homer calls in the past, it's only right that the organisers' motives get called into question. I mean, we still talk about Moser's helicopter and the lying timegaps to Delgado on the boards to this day; if a Spanish race organiser did this for a Spanish rider, or an Italian race organiser for an Italian rider, they would be absolutely pilloried for it.

But none of it is Tejay's fault. Vaughters said he thought Tejay would win by a minute anyway, which proved to be typical Vaughters bluster. It's kind of strange really, since the Tour of California achieved its goal of becoming a WT race, it's actually dropped away in terms of startlist and interest. And while its winners may go on to be future stars, it seems to be taking the role that Romandie had 10-15 years ago of being a good WT primer for young talent, sitting in a calendar spot where most teams' A-listers aren't looking to be at peak form. Romandie suffered from a generation of GC candidates who were also prime Ardennes battlers - Valverde, Schleck brothers, Cunego, Kirchen, Evans, Rodríguez - and this has somewhat been rectified by its role as a warmup stage race for the likes of Froome and Wiggins who aren't one-day racers. Most people targeting May will be racing in Italy, and most people targeting July won't want to be in full race shape now, so California has kind of assumed that position of being a window into the future of GC battles. It's a good race for that role, with heat, some tough climbs, and exposure to more of the complete idiot fans (it seems to be very good at attracting those) than most comparable level races, the question will just be if the race organisers are happy with that role given all of the fanfare the race was launched with on its move to May in 2010. They attracted ridicule then, but the race has carved out a decent niche since.
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18 May 2019 10:17

They should bring back the Sierra Road MTF were Papi Horner destroyed everyone in 2011.
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Re: Re:

18 May 2019 10:32

tobydawq wrote:
Moviefan1203 wrote:
tobydawq wrote:
johnymax wrote:Tejay is a good guy. He didn't want to win this way, with all the polemics around him so he let the young up and coming riders to battle it out.


The same can be said for the good guy Moscon.


Pretty asinine comment.


Er, why?

It was a quirky comment building on a quirky comment.

But let me clarify: Whether Tejay is a good or a bad guy, I don't know - I think the former but I don't know him that well. I dislike him as a bike rider, though, and no, I do not really believe that he let the race go away today in the spirit of fair play...

I do not think Moscon did that either, and for the record, I don't think he is a good guy at all. Sorry if that is an asinine opinion.


I just don't like the idea of saying that Van Garderen and Moscon lost time because of fair play. Maybe the riders who finished ahead where just... better.
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18 May 2019 11:38

Amgen Tour of California 2019: Stage 6 highlights | NBC Sports
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=221pwXkeHxQ

38 Big Photos from Stage 6 (descriptions to come) — getty
http://www.steephill.tv/2019/tour-of-california/photos/stage-06/

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18 May 2019 11:41

How did Bjerg become the most courageous? He wouldn't have been my pick, that's for sure.
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Re:

18 May 2019 12:35

Libertine Seguros wrote:Put it this way, Tejay van Garderen comes across as a nice guy, but I've literally never seen a bike race I've thought was improved for him being it, except maybe the 2010 Vuelta where he was a breath of fresh air and actually had some pretty decent puncheur skills honed in his time at Rabobank Developmental, which have been neglected since as he's become more of a diesel climber. Actually, in fairness that's a bit harsh, he's been a decent addition to some editions of the Volta a Catalunya. Tejay's issue is that he is a stage racer who is best suited to low to medium gradients, and a strong TTer, which means that he's not going to be suited to most routes for the Vuelta or Giro, and the Tour is of course the GT with the strongest field. Apart from the win on the Rettenbachferner all of his best stage racing results have come in events in the USA or the Volta a Catalunya, where the climbing tends to be on lower gradient climbs, or on more consistent roads which have been made more recently and with more modern equipment, which suits his style - but means that he's somebody who tends to follow rather than lead when it comes to the big inconsistent climbs and steeper ones that are increasingly being preferred in European races, to try to ensure time gaps due to the increased professionalism in the péloton and the proliferation of train templates.

As a result, I have nothing against Tejay van Garderen, but I have never learned to care about him or his results. As a result, mainly I see him as somebody who's just kind of there in the group of heads of state, until such point as he isn't anymore. A rider who will serve as a good 'option B' if you have a leader who can attack and let Tejay sit in the group as they chase them, or a leader for a team which has no aspirations of actually winning the race but wants a good GC position for the earnings it brings. But as a result, this means he makes nary a dent in my conscience unless something controversial happens, like the nullification of time gaps. Now, it's also true that a lot of people may go back to the 2011 Tour de France and point out that Contador crashed outside the 3km to the finish point, Schleck crashed inside it, so it was only fair and right that Schleck was given +0" time gap (I didn't think that applied on uphill finishes, remembering Schumacher losing the maillot jaune in 2008, but whatever your take, the case can be made), however the Schleck crash blocked the Contador group from getting through to the finish, and increased their deficit, leading to Contador riding to the finish at a similar time to Schleck but losing almost a minute GC-wise. And a lot of people thought that unfair too. It's a problem of the 3k rule - it's a good rule to have to stop absolute carnage when crashes happen, but at the same time, you can't just extend the rule indefinitely to any rider who crashes at any time, because crashing is just a part of bike racing, so at some point there has to be a cutoff and there will then be an issue surrounding it.

Nullifying Tejay's timegap for being baulked by another group that crashed would have been controversial enough with the 2011 precedent in mind but it would have been reasonable, considering people's issue with the Contador timeloss, however with that other crash being outside the 3k, with Tejay being the only American in the top 10 (and with, let's be honest, American cycling rather ailing at the moment, with none of the new prospects looking like assuming the GC contender mantle that the American general public needs, as the Lance days have perpetuated the all-about-Le-Tour mindset there, one of the few immediately recognizable names to the fans there), the decision to nullify all time gaps and put him back into his leading position was bound to attract controversy. I mean, considering all the flak other race organisers have received for blatant homer calls in the past, it's only right that the organisers' motives get called into question. I mean, we still talk about Moser's helicopter and the lying timegaps to Delgado on the boards to this day; if a Spanish race organiser did this for a Spanish rider, or an Italian race organiser for an Italian rider, they would be absolutely pilloried for it.

But none of it is Tejay's fault. Vaughters said he thought Tejay would win by a minute anyway, which proved to be typical Vaughters bluster. It's kind of strange really, since the Tour of California achieved its goal of becoming a WT race, it's actually dropped away in terms of startlist and interest. And while its winners may go on to be future stars, it seems to be taking the role that Romandie had 10-15 years ago of being a good WT primer for young talent, sitting in a calendar spot where most teams' A-listers aren't looking to be at peak form. Romandie suffered from a generation of GC candidates who were also prime Ardennes battlers - Valverde, Schleck brothers, Cunego, Kirchen, Evans, Rodríguez - and this has somewhat been rectified by its role as a warmup stage race for the likes of Froome and Wiggins who aren't one-day racers. Most people targeting May will be racing in Italy, and most people targeting July won't want to be in full race shape now, so California has kind of assumed that position of being a window into the future of GC battles. It's a good race for that role, with heat, some tough climbs, and exposure to more of the complete idiot fans (it seems to be very good at attracting those) than most comparable level races, the question will just be if the race organisers are happy with that role given all of the fanfare the race was launched with on its move to May in 2010. They attracted ridicule then, but the race has carved out a decent niche since.


I think it's impossible to not mention the Dauphiné of 2015 as the race where Tejay has impressed the most. He was really having some nice battles with Froome in that race and it was only on the final stage (after three previous mountain finishes) that he finally conceded defeat.
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