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04 Jul 2019 18:37

Well what if they did the update now and the forum becomes completely inaccessible? Then you'll have nothing during the Tour, so better something than nothing. Of course, the new version should make things better, but you never know what you might run in to.
Vasilis
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05 Jul 2019 00:48

No forum is better than **** forum. And it still doesn't explain why it was announced in the first place. It's like a cycling site forgot when the tour is.
Googolplex
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Re:

05 Jul 2019 01:00

Googolplex wrote:No forum is better than **** forum. And it still doesn't explain why it was announced in the first place. It's like a cycling site forgot when the tour is.

Firstly, I haven't had any access issues as others seem to have had, perhaps I am just lucky, or am not visiting on days when issues happen.

And yes, my original comment regarding the timing confirmed to me that those on the technical side are just that, its a bit of software, and Le Tour / Giro / Vuelta etc are probably foreign words to them. Those who have been around a while will have noticed that the rest of the site is now very commercially orientated, its there to make money for its owners first. As many will have noticed, they don't like Ad Blockers.
Yingge
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Re:

09 Jul 2019 01:27

Vasilis wrote:Well what if they did the update now and the forum becomes completely inaccessible? Then you'll have nothing during the Tour, so better something than nothing. Of course, the new version should make things better, but you never know what you might run in to.

It's not an update. It's a completely new system. In case something goes wrong, they could easily put up the old forum again in a matter of minutes. In fact, chances are the new system is already in place, but they need to import the database of the old (current) forum, which needs to be the most current version (with all the latest added members and posts). Importing the database is the most tricky part i assume, since both systems are not directly compatible.

But if something should go wrong with importing the database of the current forum into the new forum, they could just keep the old one online as a backup, and try again another time.

If all they need is one day, they could try to do it on a restday perhaps.
User avatar Logic-is-your-friend
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Re:

09 Jul 2019 07:22

Vasilis wrote:Well what if they did the update now and the forum becomes completely inaccessible? Then you'll have nothing during the Tour, so better something than nothing. Of course, the new version should make things better, but you never know what you might run in to.


In other words, they have no confidence in the new forum.
User avatar Armchair cyclist
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Re: Re:

09 Jul 2019 11:57

Armchair cyclist wrote:
Vasilis wrote:Well what if they did the update now and the forum becomes completely inaccessible? Then you'll have nothing during the Tour, so better something than nothing. Of course, the new version should make things better, but you never know what you might run in to.


In other words, they have no confidence in the new forum.


I don’t think that’s the case. Transferring platforms always has the potential for problems and I’m sure the decision was taken to postpone the transfer in case there were problems. The forum would have been down for about a day and if this extended into the weekend when people would have been off work you can see it could have easily meant the forum wouldn’t have been available for the first couple of stages of the Tour. I’m unsure where the developers are based but if they are in the US there was the obvious clash with the 4th and long weekends. It’s summer holidays too which may mean less staff about.

From what we’ve seen, which isn’t a lot, the new forum will be a big improvement. Whether it will solve all the current problems I have no idea, but hopefully it will.
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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09 Jul 2019 15:00

What bugged me was the way the whole thing was handled.

1. You'd think that in making the big announcement they had ensured that everything was ready, and just gave us a few days to prepare.

2. When that turned out to not be the case, simply being honest about it - instead of that stuff about it being because of the Tour - might have been a better idea.

3: These two quotes:

Bummer. So we should expect to be unable to access the forum half the time during the Tour?

You will have full access to the forums as they are now throughout the Tour.


Seems like they haven't even been aware of the issues we've been having...
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User avatar RedheadDane
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09 Jul 2019 16:01

To point 2, I'm actually pretty sure it was because of the Tour.
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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09 Jul 2019 16:57

Which tour Austria?
:D
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Re:

09 Jul 2019 17:03

King Boonen wrote:To point 2, I'm actually pretty sure it was because of the Tour.


So, you're not communicating with them? Because that was not the reason Pricey_sky gave... but given the fact that there seem to be no awareness of the issues, I'm not so sure the update will actually do any good…
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User avatar RedheadDane
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09 Jul 2019 17:35

What I said and what Pricey said aren't mutually exclusive. Being ready involves the logistics and timescales and how this might clash with events they were unaware of. They are transferring to a new platform and there is likely a period of downtime. I covered this in my last post, it seems fairly clear.

We have had some communication with the team carrying this out. Please remember that we are volunteers, not paid employees of Cycling News. While I have been a mod I have had direct communication with exactly one person who has been in CN employment of some type, Susan, and that's because she is also a mod. I have not spoken to anyone else and I don't really ever expect to unless they involve themselves in moderation of the forum.
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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09 Jul 2019 19:28

I'm less angry with you than with the update crew, they're ones who seemed completely unaware of the issues this place has been having. There's also the fact that they have disappeared, leaving you do deal with the fallout…

Honestly, when I saw that they were planning on doing the update on the 4th, I just assumed that they'd have everything sorted by the time the Tour started. It's not like the Tour start came as a surprise… :rolleyes:
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User avatar RedheadDane
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Re: Re:

09 Jul 2019 22:08

King Boonen wrote:
Armchair cyclist wrote:
Vasilis wrote:Well what if they did the update now and the forum becomes completely inaccessible? Then you'll have nothing during the Tour, so better something than nothing. Of course, the new version should make things better, but you never know what you might run in to.


In other words, they have no confidence in the new forum.


I don’t think that’s the case. Transferring platforms always has the potential for problems and I’m sure the decision was taken to postpone the transfer in case there were problems. The forum would have been down for about a day and if this extended into the weekend when people would have been off work you can see it could have easily meant the forum wouldn’t have been available for the first couple of stages of the Tour. I’m unsure where the developers are based but if they are in the US there was the obvious clash with the 4th and long weekends. It’s summer holidays too which may mean less staff about.

From what we’ve seen, which isn’t a lot, the new forum will be a big improvement. Whether it will solve all the current problems I have no idea, but hopefully it will.

The bolded seems to confirm my opinion that there was a lack of confidence in the new platform.

I am about to buy a new car, with better performance and features than my current vehicle, which overheats on any journey of length. I am about to go on the longest journey of the year on which I want to show off my status to others. I am due to collect the new car three days before the journey starts.
I suddenly decide that I am better off using the unreliable poorly equipped car: what conclusions would the observer make?
User avatar Armchair cyclist
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10 Jul 2019 00:13

That poorly constructed analogies are pointless..?
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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10 Jul 2019 06:28

I'd like to formally apologise.
I took my anger with the update-crew (and the World in general) out on in this thread...
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Re:

10 Jul 2019 06:48

King Boonen wrote:That poorly constructed analogies are pointless..?

So in what way is the analogy not applicable?

Is the new forum not believed to be better?
Is the current offering not unreliable?
Is the Tour not a time of high visitor numbers, and would it not be advantageous to the publishers to retain as many of these as possible?
Were we not told that the new platform would be delivered 3 days before the Tour?
Was the timetable not changed at short notice?
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2019 06:50

Yingge wrote:Le Tour / Giro / Vuelta etc are probably foreign words to them.

:D
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Re:

10 Jul 2019 08:35

RedheadDane wrote:I'm less angry with you than with the update crew, they're ones who seemed completely unaware of the issues this place has been having. There's also the fact that they have disappeared, leaving you do deal with the fallout…

Honestly, when I saw that they were planning on doing the update on the 4th, I just assumed that they'd have everything sorted by the time the Tour started. It's not like the Tour start came as a surprise… :rolleyes:


I didn't actually perceive your posts as angry to be honest :) What I post next is my best guess based on some experience in the area and the bits of discussion we have had with the developers.

I have a small amount of experience with network IT. No matter how well you plan things there are always possible issues that may arise. I can imagine transferring the forum to a different software can cause many. Last time this forum was updated the mod forum became visible to all users for a while (I know because I wasn't a mod and could see it). That's not much of an issue but can highlight that things can go wrong even when something is simple and within the same platform. To plan for that you build in contingency, that's why it was noted that it would taken some time to get everything up and running. That's fine and as long as what you are updating isn't critical over that time, and the contingency you have built in, you can go ahead. Obviously an operational forum is pretty critical during the biggest race of the year. The chance of the forum being down for some time at the very start of this race might be small, but you assess that and make a decision. It seems that the decision was made to postpone the delivery in case there are issues.

With regard the ongoing issues, I don't know how aware the developers are and it's worth pointing out that if the plan is to transfer the forum to different software it's probably a waste of money paying your developers to chase bugs in the old software. The intermittent nature of the problems no doubt makes it hard to chase down and could lead to someone spending a long time fixing something, only to have it replaced the week afterwards.

As for the Tour coming as a surprise, it's possible. The developers no doubt work on forums covering a vast array of topics, it's unlikely they're interested in everything.
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2019 08:37

Armchair cyclist wrote:
King Boonen wrote:That poorly constructed analogies are pointless..?

So in what way is the analogy not applicable?

Is the new forum not believed to be better?
Is the current offering not unreliable?
Is the Tour not a time of high visitor numbers, and would it not be advantageous to the publishers to retain as many of these as possible?
Were we not told that the new platform would be delivered 3 days before the Tour?
Was the timetable not changed at short notice?


You've confused a brand new product with one that reuses parts of the old product. You confused the delivery of that new product with the product itself. You've also confused the producers, users and observers of that product.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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10 Jul 2019 11:55

As far as I can see the original problem has gone a way this week.
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