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Jack Bobridge jailed for drug trafficking

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Jack Bobridge jailed for drug trafficking

05 Jul 2019 06:07

Not too sure where to put this and I couldn't see a thread after a cursory search.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/western-australia/from-olympic-medallist-to-drug-trafficker-cyclist-jack-bobridge-jailed-20190705-p524id.html


These boys certainly seem to gravitate to this lifestyle during and after their careers.
User avatar Stingray34
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05 Jul 2019 07:17

There was a thread somewhere (which I can't find) from a few months ago when the case first hit court. There were apparently two other cyclists named in court, but the Judge suppressed their names being published.
Yingge
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05 Jul 2019 07:43

4 and a half years....offt that’s a sore one to take
rick james
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Re: Jack Bobridge jailed for drug trafficking

05 Jul 2019 10:46

Those dirty Europeans corrupting the poor, innocent Aussie.
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09 Jul 2019 23:17

MDMA (Ecstasy) is close to the least harmful substance out there. Let's raise a glass to Australia for keeping this madman off the streets.
Image
proffate
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Re:

10 Jul 2019 03:30

proffate wrote:MDMA (Ecstasy) is close to the least harmful substance out there. Let's raise a glass to Australia for keeping this madman off the streets.
Image


I agree with the sentiment expressed. I think all drugs should be legalized, but it should be noted that unless you have a trusted dealer, you never know what's in an ecstasy pill.
Then again, people quickly catch on to who is selling bad batches, and those mofos quickly go out of business.
I do not consider Bobridge a criminal, especially when compared to the human detritus in cycling who have traditionally made it mandatory to get on the gear. Remember Manzano? Guy almost died after getting the wrong dose and everything was swept under the carpet.
User avatar the delgados
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2019 13:06

the delgados wrote:
proffate wrote:MDMA (Ecstasy) is close to the least harmful substance out there. Let's raise a glass to Australia for keeping this madman off the streets.
Image


I agree with the sentiment expressed. I think all drugs should be legalized, but it should be noted that unless you have a trusted dealer, you never know what's in an ecstasy pill.
Then again, people quickly catch on to who is selling bad batches, and those mofos quickly go out of business.
I do not consider Bobridge a criminal, especially when compared to the human detritus in cycling who have traditionally made it mandatory to get on the gear. Remember Manzano? Guy almost died after getting the wrong dose and everything was swept under the carpet.


The debate about the legality (wether they should be legal or not) of various drugs is an interesting and valid one, but you cannot say that Bobridge is 'not a criminal'. MDMA is defined by law as a Class A illegal substance, and the supply of it is illegal. Bobridge chose to knowingly break the law purely for financial gain. He is therefore a criminal. That much is fact.

If the law gets changed in the future then it's still irrelevant to the Bobridge case....he knew the legal consequences of what he was doing at the time he was doing it and therefore got what he deserved.

Wether he's a better or worse criminal than other breeds of criminal you may choose to cite is open to interpretation
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Re: Jack Bobridge jailed for drug trafficking

10 Jul 2019 16:59

Stingray34 wrote:These boys certainly seem to gravitate to this lifestyle during and after their careers.
Looking into what the judge was actually thinking, he alludes to exactly what you said :
https://thewest.com.au/news/court-justice/disgraced-olympian-jack-bobridge-jailed-for-drug-trafficking-ng-b881251035z
"Judge Scott said Bobridge was like a lot of young athletes, both locally and internationally, who “are subject to a number of pressures for which you may not be equipped. That may provide some explanation as to why you were a user of drugs, but no explanation for why you’d be a prolific user and then a dealer of ecstasy”.

Pro cyclists with 'addictive personalities' seeking stimulation off the bike, itinerant lifestyle in which there is not much propriety expected in any given tour stop, cycling is already known as a 'pharmaceutical' profession... all those factors add up, and probably there is a higher incidence of addiction / recreational drugs among them. Plus in this case, Perth has a huge EDM / rave scene where there is a market for entrepreneurs such as Bobridge
rick james wrote:4 and a half years....offt that’s a sore one to take
Certainly so, and that also made me wonder about sentencing guidelines in Australia, isn't that sentence relatively harsh for the extent of what he did... and the answer under Australian law is no, the judge could have given Bobridge up to a maximum of 15 years in prison, and fully half of all MDMA traffickers at his level got 4 - 7 year sentences
https://druglawyer.armstronglegal.com.au/web/page/likely-penalty-drug-supply
It's like the judge just gave Bobridge towards the lower end of the standard sentence - which is not to let him off the hook for celebrity or athletic merit or whatever. But also not to make an example of him with above-average sentence.
ClassicomanoLuigi
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Re: Jack Bobridge jailed for drug trafficking

10 Jul 2019 19:04

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
Stingray34 wrote:These boys certainly seem to gravitate to this lifestyle during and after their careers.
Looking into what the judge was actually thinking, he alludes to exactly what you said :
https://thewest.com.au/news/court-justice/disgraced-olympian-jack-bobridge-jailed-for-drug-trafficking-ng-b881251035z
"Judge Scott said Bobridge was like a lot of young athletes, both locally and internationally, who “are subject to a number of pressures for which you may not be equipped. That may provide some explanation as to why you were a user of drugs, but no explanation for why you’d be a prolific user and then a dealer of ecstasy”.

Pro cyclists with 'addictive personalities' seeking stimulation off the bike, itinerant lifestyle in which there is not much propriety expected in any given tour stop, cycling is already known as a 'pharmaceutical' profession... all those factors add up, and probably there is a higher incidence of addiction / recreational drugs among them. Plus in this case, Perth has a huge EDM / rave scene where there is a market for entrepreneurs such as Bobridge
rick james wrote:4 and a half years....offt that’s a sore one to take
Certainly so, and that also made me wonder about sentencing guidelines in Australia, isn't that sentence relatively harsh for the extent of what he did... and the answer under Australian law is no, the judge could have given Bobridge up to a maximum of 15 years in prison, and fully half of all MDMA traffickers at his level got 4 - 7 year sentences
https://druglawyer.armstronglegal.com.au/web/page/likely-penalty-drug-supply
It's like the judge just gave Bobridge towards the lower end of the standard sentence - which is not to let him off the hook for celebrity or athletic merit or whatever. But also not to make an example of him with above-average sentence.


You'll find that Western Australia has tougher sentencing laws then the other states in Australia. Though in this case Borbridge did OK.
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2019 19:27

brownbobby wrote:
the delgados wrote:
proffate wrote:MDMA (Ecstasy) is close to the least harmful substance out there. Let's raise a glass to Australia for keeping this madman off the streets.
Image


I agree with the sentiment expressed. I think all drugs should be legalized, but it should be noted that unless you have a trusted dealer, you never know what's in an ecstasy pill.
Then again, people quickly catch on to who is selling bad batches, and those mofos quickly go out of business.
I do not consider Bobridge a criminal, especially when compared to the human detritus in cycling who have traditionally made it mandatory to get on the gear. Remember Manzano? Guy almost died after getting the wrong dose and everything was swept under the carpet.


The debate about the legality (wether they should be legal or not) of various drugs is an interesting and valid one, but you cannot say that Bobridge is 'not a criminal'. MDMA is defined by law as a Class A illegal substance, and the supply of it is illegal. Bobridge chose to knowingly break the law purely for financial gain. He is therefore a criminal. That much is fact.

If the law gets changed in the future then it's still irrelevant to the Bobridge case....he knew the legal consequences of what he was doing at the time he was doing it and therefore got what he deserved.

Wether he's a better or worse criminal than other breeds of criminal you may choose to cite is open to interpretation


Have you heard of civil disobedience? Many people believe you're under no obligation to follow laws you don't consider moral.

As far as the presence of other drugs mixed into ecstasy pills: that's a real problem, but to me it's an argument for the legalization and regulation of the substance, not harsher laws.
proffate
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Re: Re:

11 Jul 2019 07:10

proffate wrote:
brownbobby wrote:
the delgados wrote:
proffate wrote:MDMA (Ecstasy) is close to the least harmful substance out there. Let's raise a glass to Australia for keeping this madman off the streets.
Image


I agree with the sentiment expressed. I think all drugs should be legalized, but it should be noted that unless you have a trusted dealer, you never know what's in an ecstasy pill.
Then again, people quickly catch on to who is selling bad batches, and those mofos quickly go out of business.
I do not consider Bobridge a criminal, especially when compared to the human detritus in cycling who have traditionally made it mandatory to get on the gear. Remember Manzano? Guy almost died after getting the wrong dose and everything was swept under the carpet.


The debate about the legality (wether they should be legal or not) of various drugs is an interesting and valid one, but you cannot say that Bobridge is 'not a criminal'. MDMA is defined by law as a Class A illegal substance, and the supply of it is illegal. Bobridge chose to knowingly break the law purely for financial gain. He is therefore a criminal. That much is fact.

If the law gets changed in the future then it's still irrelevant to the Bobridge case....he knew the legal consequences of what he was doing at the time he was doing it and therefore got what he deserved.

Wether he's a better or worse criminal than other breeds of criminal you may choose to cite is open to interpretation


Have you heard of civil disobedience? Many people believe you're under no obligation to follow laws you don't consider moral.

As far as the presence of other drugs mixed into ecstasy pills: that's a real problem, but to me it's an argument for the legalization and regulation of the substance, not harsher laws.


Yeah sure i've heard of it...its just a polite term for anarchy.

Look, i firmly believe that certain recreational drugs, MDMA included, should be legalised. But i also firmly believe in a need for society to be governed by laws with consequence for those who choose to break those laws.

I mean whose moral compass do we decide to follow when choosing which laws to follow and which to flout?

Fact is, Bobridge wasn't on some kind of moral crusade, he knew the law as it stood and he chose to do what he did purely for personal financial gain. He's now paying the consequence for that. Regardless of my views on the legal status of MDMA, that's absolutely how things should be IMHO.
brownbobby
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Re: Jack Bobridge jailed for drug trafficking

11 Jul 2019 22:47

brownbobby:
We all know that human beings create laws that can and have changed over time.
There is no need to remind about laws regarding sexual orientation, segregation, etc. etc. that have been abolished in most civilized countries throughout the world over the years.
To say you agree that laws regarding drug use should be changed but follow up by saying the law is the law is a bit confusing. You either think they should be changed or you don't. If you think they should be changed it is okay to say Bobridge is not a criminal. Sure, technically he is; we all get the point. But so is someone in some jurisdictions who sell pot.
Which brings me back to the fundamental arbitrary aspect about what drug is considered legal and what isn't.
I go back to the Manzano case. My opinion about this does not matter, but I wonder why those involved in plying him with drugs and/or tainted blood bags walk away scot-free while Bobridge is considered by some as a criminal.
User avatar the delgados
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Re: Re:

12 Jul 2019 04:56

brownbobby wrote:
I mean whose moral compass do we decide to follow when choosing which laws to follow and which to flout?

Fact is, Bobridge wasn't on some kind of moral crusade, he knew the law as it stood and he chose to do what he did purely for personal financial gain.


You follow your own moral compass... What is hard to understand about that? I guess you're of the opinion that Nazi soldiers who were just following orders were doing the Right Thing, but the judges at Nuremberg did not agree with you.

We don't know exactly why Jack was slinging drugs but if you believe that MDMA should be legal then his motives are morally the exact same as someone who sells shoes for a living. Maybe they do love money, but they're also helping people by satisfying demand for a product.

The police state that you advocate is dystopic.
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Re: Re:

12 Jul 2019 07:38

proffate wrote:
brownbobby wrote:
I mean whose moral compass do we decide to follow when choosing which laws to follow and which to flout?

Fact is, Bobridge wasn't on some kind of moral crusade, he knew the law as it stood and he chose to do what he did purely for personal financial gain.


You follow your own moral compass... What is hard to understand about that? I guess you're of the opinion that Nazi soldiers who were just following orders were doing the Right Thing, but the judges at Nuremberg did not agree with you.

We don't know exactly why Jack was slinging drugs but if you believe that MDMA should be legal then his motives are morally the exact same as someone who sells shoes for a living. Maybe they do love money, but they're also helping people by satisfying demand for a product.

The police state that you advocate is dystopic.


So everyone should follow their own moral compass?.....If we're going to use the most extreme examples in history like the Nazi's then ok....The extremists who commit mass murder in the name of a religion which they strongly believe in, they get a free pass?

I don't advocate a police state, i advocate and believe in laws put in place through a democratic process...sure democracy isn't perfect, but you have to start from something....and allowing individuals free choice over which laws they choose to obey is a gateway to huge societal issues.

If you don't agree with the law as it stands, try and and change it through legitimate process. Don't just break the law and then cry foul when you suffer the consequences.
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Re: Jack Bobridge jailed for drug trafficking

12 Jul 2019 08:06

the delgados wrote:brownbobby:
We all know that human beings create laws that can and have changed over time.
There is no need to remind about laws regarding sexual orientation, segregation, etc. etc. that have been abolished in most civilized countries throughout the world over the years.
To say you agree that laws regarding drug use should be changed but follow up by saying the law is the law is a bit confusing. You either think they should be changed or you don't. If you think they should be changed it is okay to say Bobridge is not a criminal. Sure, technically he is; we all get the point. But so is someone in some jurisdictions who sell pot.
Which brings me back to the fundamental arbitrary aspect about what drug is considered legal and what isn't.
I go back to the Manzano case. My opinion about this does not matter, but I wonder why those involved in plying him with drugs and/or tainted blood bags walk away scot-free while Bobridge is considered by some as a criminal.


The law regarding MDMA is a bit more complex than other examples such as the ones you quote above....

Unlike pot/marijuana MDMA is a manufactured chemical, if it ever gets legalised, it will come with strict regulation and controls on purity, doseage and quantities supplied, similar to any prescription or even over the counter pharmaceuticals. Of course this can only be a good thing, most of the problems with MDMA arise from impurities and overdose and its for this reason that i think most recreational drugs should be legalised and controlled.

That's not the same thing as saying that current suppliers who are distributing products from unregulated underground labs and willing to sell unchecked to anyone willing to buy are good guys providing a much needed service.

With regards to the Manzano case, i agree with you....but two wrongs don't make a right.
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12 Jul 2019 18:02

You can believe that he "shouldn't be treated as" a criminal, or that he "shouldn't be" a criminal, but you can't change that he knowingly committed a crime, and therefore, by definition, is a criminal.

Yes, civil disobedience is a thing, and yes, you can bring up extreme examples like Nazi camp workers and East German border guards, but let's face it, there, you're into the realm where the people who refuse to comply with the law are committing acts of kindness to save other people.

I do not see taking recreational drugs as being a necessary basic human right, and therefore regardless of whether or not certain drugs should or shouldn't be illegal, don't see that this is a cross worth dying on. When we talk of the positives of civil disobedience, we're talking about people who took a stand against things like segregation laws. Laws or regimes limiting or preventing freedom of speech or movement. Laws which have either been condemned at the time (e.g. South African apartheid, which saw the nation an international pariah) or been contentious at the time. People who stood up to laws like that and were punished for it, that's defensible civil disobedience. Regardless of whether it may be less harmful than a large number of other substances, nobody is being actively oppressed, having their human rights trampled on, by not being able to take ecstasy, and therefore dealing it is not something worthy of martyrdom.
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Re: Jack Bobridge jailed for drug trafficking

12 Jul 2019 19:29

LS: I have already acknowledged that society deems him a criminal. I never brought up the Nazi example, nor do I think Bobridge is a martyr.
Not sure why you don't think a free agent has the right to determine which drugs to ingest. Perhaps you can elaborate on why people should be able to take one drug but not another. I never suggested that dealers are committed to saving the lives of others. Seems to me that you are narrowing the scope of what drug is good and bad to consume.
In my not so humble opinion, people can choose what they want to take in order to alter their senses. It is up to the consumer to take proper precautions. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of drug users would agree with the sentiment that they don't need to be told what to do by some rando.
As for the overriding point you are making, I could not agree more.

brownbobby:
The country in which I live have places set aside at 48 hour music festivals where every consumer can have their drugs checked for purity. The space is set up to make sure everyone is safe and there is no fear about being arrested. Basically, you buy the drugs from some rando and can have it tested on site. That's awesome and it sheds new ideas about the legality of recreational drugs. Like I said, word spreads fast when ****** drugs are being sold to unsuspecting customers, and it is awesome to have a regulated place where people can get info without fear of getting busted.
Also, yeah I agree. Introducing the Manzano example does not necessarily apply to what we are talking about. The Manzano case involves a lot more aspects than some randos and popo's on the street.
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13 Jul 2019 01:06

I'm not narrowing the scope based on drugs, but based on the examples of civil disobedience given. Civil disobedience against, say, apartheid laws, which oppress basic human rights, is one thing, and regardless of your stance on criminalization or legalization of recreational drugs, which do not, they are another. If the government were preventing the distribution of drugs for legitimate medical and pharmaceutical reasons, and Bobridge was providing people with those drugs despite the risk, then we could consider that civil disobedience that merited defending. But it isn't. Recreational drugs are by definition recreational, and Bobridge isn't motivated by anything other than profit to distribute them. He knew it was against the law going in, and he knowingly broke the law to do so, and with no claim to the moral high ground. Therefore even if one believes the law should be changed, you can't argue that Bobridge isn't a criminal - but you can argue that he shouldn't be one.

Therefore regardless of stance on particular substances, I see no reason not to treat him as a common criminal, for that is in fact what he, as things stand, is.

Saying "people are under no obligation to follow laws they do not consider moral" is just way too crass a generalization to be of any value. Some people favour the death penalty, does that mean that we shouldn't penalize lynch mobs if they genuinely believe that the death penalty should have been applied for the crimes undertaken?
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Re: Jack Bobridge jailed for drug trafficking

13 Jul 2019 22:10

Just to be clear, I know there is a sliding scale regarding civil disobedience.
Advocating for legalizing drug use is nothing compared to fighting for a group of people fighting for their right to exist; and I apologize if anyone interpreted my argument in terms of equating the two to be of equal importance. That was not my intention.
This thread was/is about recreational (and to some respect PED's) drug use, and the arbitrary nature in which laws are applied.
Imagine sitting in jail for life for trafficking drugs when the state or country next to you has deemed the drugs you were selling to be legal. In my opinion, that is a violation of human rights.
And at risk of becoming even more redundant, I believe everyone has a basic human right concerning what they put in their body. Part of doing so is taking personal responsibility for knowing what you're putting into your body..
Let's face it: There are a ton of manufacturers of one type of drug or another who make billiions on selling a product deemed to be legal. That point was mentioned a while back by the poster who provided statistics regarding the relative harm each drug potentially possesses.
That is why I don't consider Bobridge to be a criminal. Everyone has a right to make a living, and as long as he's not selling bad batches that contain lethal ingredients, he isn't doing anything different than government approved companies.
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14 Jul 2019 08:10

There are a lot of ways to make a living in Australia that don't involve illegal drugs. It's not like he's in some destroyed village in Afghanistan, or a rebel-held town in Colombia where opium or coke farming is the difference between food on the table and starvation. He's in an affluent, first world country, in a major city. And MDMA being a synthetic, manufactured substance takes out the other argument that can be made regarding marijuana, mushrooms etc.. He's also not sitting in jail 'for life'. He's sitting in jail for four and a half years, which basically means that if he behaves himself he'll be there for three, tops. Anyway, what countries next to Australia have legalised MDMA?

While you may feel that Bobridge shouldn't be a criminal, that's how you should frame it. Not that he isn't a criminal, because he is. It's not like he was showing civil disobedience because of a moral crusade against perceived unfair drug laws, because his motive was not to draw attention to a perceived unfair law but to make money, and the majority of Australians are against the legalization of ecstasy anyway. As you can see from that, the study shows that while half of Australians felt ecstasy should be 'decriminalized', only 6,2% thought it should be 'legalized'. Also, a key factor was that support for decriminalization of the drug was limited to possession of quantities for personal consumption only, and not support for the decriminalization of sale or supply.

Anyway, I don't really want to get bogged down in the minutiae of drug laws, because I feel a lot of your points on the subject are fair. I'm just arguing the semantics, pointing out that it's nonsense to say that Bobridge is not a criminal, because he was neither unaware that he was breaking the law, nor is there any great moral purpose to his actions. He's just a drug dealer, and nothing more, and for that he's committed the crime - and now he's, quite rightly, doing the time.

Proffate is the one that invoked Godwin's Law, suggesting that imprisoning drug dealers is equivalent to pardoning Nazi camp guards because of following the law at the time, because they don't like the current drug laws, which is how the sliding scale of civil disobedience discussion came about.
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