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Just wait for the protests of Valverde's innocence...

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Just wait for the protests of Valverde's innocence...

16 Mar 2010 15:16

Title says it all.

Super talented rider but a real shame. I hope he serves his ban graciously and helps kill off the doping culture by admitting what he's done.
igamogam
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Voila!

16 Mar 2010 15:22

igamogam
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16 Mar 2010 15:45

It is all a French....er, Italian conspiracy. It is all that tabloid le 'Equipe's....err, la Gazetta trying to sell newspapers.
User avatar Race Radio
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16 Mar 2010 15:49

Race Radio wrote:It is all a French....er, Italian conspiracy. It is all that tabloid le 'Equipe's....err, la Gazetta trying to sell newspapers.


You are probably right:)
User avatar Polish
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16 Mar 2010 16:38

igamogam wrote:Title says it all.

Super talented rider but a real shame. I hope he serves his ban graciously and helps kill off the doping culture by admitting what he's done.


Surely all of his actions up till now just show that he will/ has done exactly the opposite. Just as Basso its all denials and excuses, trying to gain as much money before he is banned and presumably like Basso comes back to be a poor cyclist without his extra fuel. Basso/ Valverde/ Ricco are the worst of the worst, they were part of the new vanguard of more switched on cyclists who were doing it clean but in reality they were just looking for the next non detectable drug. The media often seems to portray Italy and Portugal as the least bastions of druggie culture in cycling but the actions of the Spanish federation seem to show there are more countries need to wise up and address these issues. Just look at the terrible consequences of doping with the most recent example of the 19 year old Polish rider trying to commit suicide after being caught, surely its time to ban all druggies for life and ban the teams and the directors, otherwise cycling will be unfairly tarnished and continue to be viewed as a sport full of dopers. Which I would like to think is no longer the case.
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16 Mar 2010 16:51

If I was Valverde, I'd simply shut the fvck up & complete my sanction quietly before UCI goes for the global ban. He's the lucky one whom has ridden & won races without any punishment since the entire OP blew over--so what more can he ask for?
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?
Sun Tzu
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16 Mar 2010 17:17

I like Valverde's defense strategy. Throw enough crap at the wall and some of it is going to stick. His lawyers now claim his human rights have been violated. How and when did this happen? He continues to hide behind the Spanish courts because he knows and has known all along it is his blood. My beef is what the hell makes Valverde so damn special. Just about any other rider in his position would at the very least be provisionally suspended at this point. Yet Valverde remains free to challenge at the Tour Down Under, Paris-Nice and probably if his appeal lasts long enough the TDF. I just want this over with, once Valverde takes his punishment maybe we can finally stop dealing with OP.
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16 Mar 2010 17:20

igamogam wrote:Title says it all.

Super talented rider but a real shame. I hope he serves his ban graciously and helps kill off the doping culture by admitting what he's done.


Consider the following line from the CN article, which suggests he did not offer any denial but tried to use the legal system to have the evidence excluded. So there may yet be an admittance, but so far there's no sign of grace.


The Spaniard appealed against the ban, claiming the CONI had no legal right to use the evidence.
User avatar pedaling squares
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16 Mar 2010 17:29

ScottinPhilly wrote:Just about any other rider in his position would at the very least be provisionally suspended at this point.


Not true - how many riders have been suspended from Operation Puerto? Three riders (Basso, Scarponi and Jaschke) and all three were suspended because they confessed to their involvement. No rider (or athlete from another sport) has been found guilty. What about the other 50-odd cyclists who were implicated and thus are all in Valverde's position? None of them have been investigated (by CONI, UCI or anyone else) and provisionally suspended. While I have no doubt regarding Valverde's guilt, this is a targeted witch hunt which ignores the ruling of higher powers (Spanish judiciary) and the involvement of the remaining riders implicated in Operation Puerto who continue to ride professionally.
"If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
User avatar elapid
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16 Mar 2010 17:33

ScottinPhilly wrote:I like Valverde's defense strategy. Throw enough crap at the wall and some of it is going to stick. His lawyers now claim his human rights have been violated. How and when did this happen? He continues to hide behind the Spanish courts because he knows and has known all along it is his blood. My beef is what the hell makes Valverde so damn special. Just about any other rider in his position would at the very least be provisionally suspended at this point. Yet Valverde remains free to challenge at the Tour Down Under, Paris-Nice and probably if his appeal lasts long enough the TDF. I just want this over with, once Valverde takes his punishment maybe we can finally stop dealing with OP.


What makes him special is that he's a star who wins races. The UCI has always operated under the "principle" of protect the stars who are the face of the sport while throwing under the bus the small fish who get caught as "the few untalented bad apples of the sport who had to dope to keep up unlike the true champions who don't need drugs." It's crap, but not only does the policy not appear to be changing, it seems to be getting stronger.
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I hope...

16 Mar 2010 17:49

... they take in to account the human rights of the riders he has deprived of earnings.

I hope they throw the book at him (and don't miss).

I hope they consider the legal rights of others that have been stopped from winning events that he has won whilst he should have been banned. Isn't doping a form of fraud, I don't understand why athletes do not face criminal charges and custodial sentences for doping.

Hopefully it is finally starting to sink in that dopers will be caught most of the time (or regularly even) and with the further maturing of the biological passport system, doping will become a thing of the past.

Legal shenanigans, failings of the Spanish court system and bluster or not I sincerely hope that this time the charges stick and that retrospective testing of samples will bust open the sham performances of the "great" riders in recent years and show them to be what they are, dirty cheats. I hope they are all stripped of their palmares and are forced to repay their prize money.

I strongly suspect that there are further tough times ahead for cycling as a sport (despite it's current high standing in the fight against doping) but unless the tainted heroes are exposed, there will be no way for truly talented but honest athletes to entertain us.
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16 Mar 2010 17:49

FignonLeGrand wrote:Basso/ Valverde/ Ricco are the worst of the worst


Wouldn't put Ricco in with those two. He criticised the testing and handed over names. Better than denying everything and shutting up.
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16 Mar 2010 18:09

The solution for the Valverde situation is obvious. The UCI should hire a shyster lawyer like Vrijman to produce a report that explains why clear and overwhelming evidence of doping cannot be used to sanction the athlete. It's worked before.
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
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16 Mar 2010 18:09

Basso took his suspension they way ALL riders should take their suspensions - with honorable acceptance.

Although the sport would be healthier if suspensions did not exist - ie, dopers kicked out for good - the way Basso handled his suspension should become a template for healthy sport in a suspension infected cycling world.

Turds like Ricco could not care less about the sport - only about themselves.

Just imagine what would happen if the UCI ADDED 1 year to a suspension if you named names. Do you think turds like Ricco would still be naming names? Of course not - they are only looking out for themselves. Screw the sport. Me Me ME....can Me race sooner if I name names? Yes? Names Names NAMES.



Basso also has a cute sister.
User avatar Polish
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16 Mar 2010 18:12

Polish wrote:Basso took his suspension they way ALL riders should take their suspensions - with honorable acceptance.

Although the sport would be healthier if suspensions did not exist - ie, dopers kicked out for good - the way Basso handled his suspension should become a template for healthy sport in a suspension infected cycling world.

Turds like Ricco could not care less about the sport - only about themselves.

Just imagine what would happen if the UCI ADDED 1 year to a suspension if you named names. Do you think turds like Ricco would still be naming names? Of course not - they are only looking out for themselves. Screw the sport. Me Me ME....can Me race sooner if I name names? Yes? Names Names NAMES.



Basso also has a cute sister.


Yeah, admitting that you are guilty only of "attempting to dope" is the model way to handle it. :rolleyes:
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16 Mar 2010 19:05

Kashechkin already tried the "human rights" defense:

In an interview with the AFP news agency, his lawyer, Luc Misson, said that he will base his argument on article 8 of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights, which says that only public authorities can interfere in people's private lives, and that "the sports authorities are not the public authorities." Even collecting blood samples violates human rights, he said.
Misson said that he was prepared to take Kashechkin's case all the way to the highest court. "If we lose, we will go to the court of appeal, then the Supreme Court of Appeal, then the European Court of Human Rights," he said. "And then we will be in a very good position. At the human rights court it would lead to a [favourable] decision at a world, if not a European level."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kashechkin-says-doping-controls-violate-human-rights

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kashechkins-lawyer-makes-human-rights-case

Fail!

Andrey Kashechkin has lost the first stage of his fight against the doping control system of which he had run afoul. A Belgian court has refused to hear the case, ruling that it has no jurisdiction in the matter, and that Kashechkin had agreed to undergo such testing when he accepted his license.
...
The court ruled that the case should be tried in a court in Switzerland, where the UCI is headquartered. It also ruled that a rider's application for a license was the equivalent of a contract, and in accepting the license, the rider also accepted the UCI's terms and conditions, including anti-doping controls.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/belgian-court-dismisses-kashechkin-suit

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kashechkins-suspension-upheld
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16 Mar 2010 19:47

elapid wrote:Not true - how many riders have been suspended from Operation Puerto? Three riders (Basso, Scarponi and Jaschke) and all three were suspended because they confessed to their involvement. No rider (or athlete from another sport) has been found guilty. What about the other 50-odd cyclists who were implicated and thus are all in Valverde's position? None of them have been investigated (by CONI, UCI or anyone else) and provisionally suspended. While I have no doubt regarding Valverde's guilt, this is a targeted witch hunt which ignores the ruling of higher powers (Spanish judiciary) and the involvement of the remaining riders implicated in Operation Puerto who continue to ride professionally.


No, not quite.

CONI had more evidence on all 3 riders (Basso, Scarponi, Valverde) than just initials and the blood bags.

Basso: .."The [blood bag] comparison is useful, but not deciding," Torri said. "We have enough material out of Madrid to draw our conclusions." Torri has been working doggedly on the case for a while. "We will go forward all the same."

Scarponi: After initially denying any involvement signed a 10 page confession prepared by CONI on the 1st day of his hearing!

Valverde: Ettore Torri of CONI said "We have documents referring to Valverde both for sums paid to [Doctor Eufemiano] Fuentes and for the substances [purchased]."
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16 Mar 2010 19:52

igamogam wrote:I hope they consider the legal rights of others that have been stopped from winning events that he has won whilst he should have been banned. Isn't doping a form of fraud, I don't understand why athletes do not face criminal charges and custodial sentences for doping.


It is, yes, and Riccardo Riccò spent a couple of nights in a French prison because of that. However, in Spain at the time of the offences, doping was not a criminal offence, only a sporting one, and so no criminal charges or custodial sentences may be brought against Valverde, as he was acting within the law at the time of the offence. The law has since changed to outlaw doping, but it cannot be applied retrospectively.

As for the races he won whilst he should have been banned - which races are these? Or rather, when should he have been banned? Do we remove his palmarès from 2004-2006 (two years from the date of the blood bags and so on)? Do we remove his palmarès from 2006-2008 (two years from the date of Puerto being revealed)? Or do we remove his palmarès from May 2009 onwards (from the CONI ban coming into effect)? Removing five years' worth of results without any positive test to speak of is bound to be a minefield, especially as there is no hard evidence whatsoever to say that Valverde has been doping at any point in the last three years - plus removing five years' worth of results would be unprecedented and harsh.

After all, no matter what happens, Valverde's entire palmarès will forever be held with a question mark over it, just like Rebellin's, Vinokourov's and di Luca's.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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16 Mar 2010 20:03

Leave Valverde alone please. Even if he doped in the past, he's not using right now. So.... they better spent their time and efforts more wisely on important cases. It's just not fair that Valverde is the only OP victim, they have no proof. ( yes a bloodbag saying valv piti)

You know it's very clear, and riders like LL and even Conta really know what's going on. Valverde is the scapegoat.
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16 Mar 2010 20:04

Where's Gallic Ho defending his "innocent wonderboy"?
diggercuz wrote:second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
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