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Down goes Pfannberger

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Down goes Pfannberger

06 May 2009 15:57

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User avatar jaylew
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06 May 2009 16:01

OUCH!
Who would have thought it, in Austria of all places....:rolleyes:
Thought he was riding hot in Pais Vasco.
Mellow Velo
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06 May 2009 16:04

another one bites the dust, and another one gone another gone another one bites the dust, good riddance
User avatar franciep10
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What is the definition of a 'non- negative'

06 May 2009 16:14

Pfannberger on Wednesday after learning the results of a recent doping test. Pfannberger was tested during an out of competition doping control at his home on March 19.

The team received notification of a non-negative

What is the definition of a 'non- negative'

eg cheating bast@$D
fallen hero




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bikepure
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06 May 2009 16:19

Non-negative means they only tested the A sample. So they still have to test the B samples before declaring him positive of doping charges. But, interestingly enough, since this is his second offense, this will end up being a lifetime ban this time around.
nightfend
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06 May 2009 16:23

A bit of topic, but current terminology really irks me. A "non-negative" should be called a "positive", just like a "person of interest" should be a "suspect". The media etc should stop the PC BS and call it as it is. Now I have had my vent, we can get back on topic.
User avatar elapid
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06 May 2009 18:21

D'oh...and there was me earlier in the day suppressing my cynicism and hoping his 'personal problem' wasn't anything too serious.

Also, as far as I know there is a distinction between non-negative and positive tests - something to do with discerning what chemicals are present and in what quantities. At least, that's how it worked in the (non-sports) drug testing lab I worked at.
User avatar Cartesian Centaur
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06 May 2009 18:32

I'm on a boat mother F-rs I'm on a BOAT!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7yfISlGLNU&feature=channel_page

ps: doing the Giro without drugs is like Miss America with no makeup.
User avatar BigBoat
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06 May 2009 18:52

elapid wrote:A bit of topic, but current terminology really irks me. A "non-negative" should be called a "positive", just like a "person of interest" should be a "suspect". The media etc should stop the PC BS and call it as it is. Now I have had my vent, we can get back on topic.


non-negative IS the same as suspect. positive would be the same as guilty.
User avatar boalio
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06 May 2009 18:55

I've always loved the term "Non-Negative" another great double negative to equate a positive :D, everyone should use it in everyday life.

As for Pfannberger, at least his team didn't throw him under the bus. About all I can say on that matter.
User avatar ElChingon
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06 May 2009 19:12

His team didn't have to, he did it himself. Great team player :(
User avatar quadsRme
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06 May 2009 19:35

elapid wrote:A bit of topic, but current terminology really irks me. A "non-negative" should be called a "positive", just like a "person of interest" should be a "suspect". The media etc should stop the PC BS and call it as it is. Now I have had my vent, we can get back on topic.


Using (formal) logic, an 'non-negative' is not the equivalent of a 'positive'.

Look at it like this, if something is 'not white', does that mean it's 'black'. No, because there is a whole range of colours in the palette that will be ignored or excluded from consideration. So when someone is 'non-negative' ie non-white that does not already imply he is 'positive' black. He has fallen in the grey zone, and just as someone said before, he has become a suspect.

What I don't understand is why they leak that someone is 'non-negative'. Why couldn't they wait till he was actually found positive, if that could actually be corroborated.
User avatar Bala Verde
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06 May 2009 21:41

Bala Verde wrote:Using (formal) logic, an 'non-negative' is not the equivalent of a 'positive'.

Look at it like this, if something is 'not white', does that mean it's 'black'. No, because there is a whole range of colours in the palette that will be ignored or excluded from consideration. So when someone is 'non-negative' ie non-white that does not already imply he is 'positive' black. He has fallen in the grey zone, and just as someone said before, he has become a suspect.

What I don't understand is why they leak that someone is 'non-negative'. Why couldn't they wait till he was actually found positive, if that could actually be corroborated.


They use the term because "negative negative" (which is of course positive) would just sound silly. Most teams have a policy of immediately suspending the rider with a non-negative A test. Given the timing with the Giro, the team's announcement of why they yanked him from the Giro squad seems reasonable.
Kennf1
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06 May 2009 22:08

Bala Verde wrote:Using (formal) logic, an 'non-negative' is not the equivalent of a 'positive'.

Look at it like this, if something is 'not white', does that mean it's 'black'. No, because there is a whole range of colours in the palette that will be ignored or excluded from consideration. So when someone is 'non-negative' ie non-white that does not already imply he is 'positive' black. He has fallen in the grey zone, and just as someone said before, he has become a suspect.
.


Why are you so stupid ?

Why do English speakers think that English is the only language and that everything is derived from that language ?

Because the rules of the UCI were originally based in French and German they have only recently using English.

The expression that something is "not" or "non" is very common. English has stolen such expressions. "I feel not good", meaning "I feel bad", but you don't want to say bad as you don't really feel bad you just "don't feel good". To say "I'm not feeling good but I'm not feeling bad" takes way to long to say so you say "good not". Simple.

In this case as only the A sample has been tested which was "positive" but the "positive" criteria hasn't been met until the B sample is also "positive". So what does it make this ? "Positive" ? No as the full conditions haven't been met. "Negative" ? No as again the conditions haven't been met. Therefore "not negative" and not positive but you want to accentuate the current condition - "non-negative".

French and German are more efficient languages than English which is full of "grey".
User avatar whiteboytrash
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06 May 2009 22:29

whiteboytrash wrote:Why are you so stupid ?

Why do English speakers think that English is the only language and that everything is derived from that language ?

Because the rules of the UCI were originally based in French and German they have only recently using English.

The expression that something is "not" or "non" is very common. English has stolen such expressions. "I feel not good", meaning "I feel bad", but you don't want to say bad as you don't really feel bad you just "don't feel good". To say "I'm not feeling good but I'm not feeling bad" takes way to long to say so you say "good not". Simple.

In this case as only the A sample has been tested which was "positive" but the "positive" criteria hasn't been met until the B sample is also "positive". So what does it make this ? "Positive" ? No as the full conditions haven't been met. "Negative" ? No as again the conditions haven't been met. Therefore "not negative" and not positive but you want to accentuate the current condition - "non-negative".

French and German are more efficient languages than English which is full of "grey".


Man you need to find something better to have a cry about!! P.S. not cool to call people "so stupid". Also, French and German are not root languages and themselves are an amalgamation from other sources.
angusthedog
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06 May 2009 22:55

We seem to have gone of track a bit with the whole language debate.

Anyhow, dont ask me why but I have always suspected Pfannberger, no actual facts or standout reasons why, but its something I always felt about the guy. Maybe its the fact he came through a small time Austrian team to become a good cyclist. I am always suspect of guys who I have never heard of on a small team and they then turn into a contender in major races.
pmcg76
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06 May 2009 23:25

whiteboytrash wrote:Why are you so stupid ?

Why do English speakers think that English is the only language and that everything is derived from that language ?


Thanks for the compliment, I am dutch, you meathead.

whiteboytrash wrote: Because the rules of the UCI were originally based in French and German they have only recently using English.

The expression that something is "not" or "non" is very common. English has stolen such expressions. "I feel not good", meaning "I feel bad", but you don't want to say bad as you don't really feel bad you just "don't feel good". To say "I'm not feeling good but I'm not feeling bad" takes way to long to say so you say "good not". Simple.

In this case as only the A sample has been tested which was "positive" but the "positive" criteria hasn't been met until the B sample is also "positive". So what does it make this ? "Positive" ? No as the full conditions haven't been met. "Negative" ? No as again the conditions haven't been met. Therefore "not negative" and not positive but you want to accentuate the current condition - "non-negative".


If you read my post, then you just summarized it using more words than initially did.

whiteboytrash wrote: French and German are more efficient languages than English which is full of "grey".


Arabic is even more efficient. Now stop whining and go stuff your gob with a bratwurst.
User avatar Bala Verde
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07 May 2009 00:35

pmcg76 wrote:We seem to have gone of track a bit with the whole language debate.

Anyhow, dont ask me why but I have always suspected Pfannberger, no actual facts or standout reasons why, but its something I always felt about the guy. Maybe its the fact he came through a small time Austrian team to become a good cyclist. I am always suspect of guys who I have never heard of on a small team and they then turn into a contender in major races.


To true, it is just disappointing all round to have the sport bought down by these people who just don't seem to have any integrity. Real shame, because it really is a great sport and fantastic to watch.
angusthedog
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07 May 2009 05:50

bikepure wrote:What is the definition of a 'non- negative'

eg cheating bast@$D
fallen hero

http://www.bikepure.org
the future of cycle sport


If this is the attitude of the self professed 'future of cycling', count me out. There is a current process in place which actually supports your cause. Perhaps not to the extent that you wish, but support it and use it as a base to build on.

Show it no respect and you'll receive the same.

Cheers
Greg Johnson
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07 May 2009 05:59

Greg Johnson wrote:If this is the attitude of the self professed 'future of cycling', count me out. There is a current process in place which actually supports your cause. Perhaps not to the extent that you wish, but support it and use it as a base to build on.

Show it no respect and you'll receive the same.

Cheers
Greg Johnson


On some other forums they refer to http://www.bikepure.org as http://www.holierthanthou.org.
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
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