Log in:  

Register

The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

22 Jul 2010 11:44

Love the Scenery wrote:I'm starting to get this sport called cycling. Let's see if I have it right. If you actually ride your bike as fast as possible, you are "unsportman-like." I assume this means that riding your bike fast is not good On the other hand, if you sit around and wait for your opponent to catch up with you, you are "sportman-like." So the goal of the sport is to sit around and wait for people. So, the ideal stage was that one where Cancellara said no one should race, and the race organizers said, you know what, you're right, it's better if nobody rides faster than the others.

Please explain to this rank newbie, then, why not ride all the stages neutralized? Surely this would be much more "sportman-like." Better yet, nobody should ride at all, they should just stand still by their bikes, waiting. I mean, I'm just saying, if that's "sportman-like," then that must be what the "sport" is about ... I think it could be cool, you know, lots of bike riders just kind of standing around waiting. Sort of a postmodern performance art sort of thing, very avant-garde, it might get a write-up in ArtNews.


+1
It's like the 19th century idea that it was unsporting to practise, hence some riders being less fit than others is not fair.
Hawkwood
Junior Member
 
Posts: 1,204
Joined: 28 Feb 2010 14:15
Location: Canterbury, Kent

22 Jul 2010 12:01

Changing gears is a skill - just like decending, sprinting etc. If you are not able to do it properly then you deserve to be exposed.

Back in the day cyclists attacked all the time when their opponent was changing gears as it was understood that their lack of skill would potentially provide an advantage. STI shifters have taken away the emphasis on this skill.

If people make stupid equipment choices and compoents fail (ie carbo wheels on the pave), should we be allowing them to get away with it by waitig and calling it a mechanical?

Changing gear is a basic skill of cycling - AS should be able to work it out. We don't wait for people because they cant ride in an echelon - why should we wait for a person who cant change his gears? its not a mechanical, its a lack of skill.
User avatar fatsprintking
Junior Member
 
Posts: 367
Joined: 15 Jul 2010 21:12

22 Jul 2010 13:35

Ouch, this thread is still alive! I will offer some new thought about whose fault was this all situation. It was Vino's fault! :D He shouted at AC and screamed: ATTACK! ATTACK!!!! So Bertie had no other option as to attack! That's why AC apologized to Andy :rolleyes: makes sense :D
step23
Junior Member
 
Posts: 80
Joined: 25 Feb 2010 09:47

25 Jul 2010 11:38

Andy did't miss the gear,his bike jumped over the hole and chain fell off.

Contador is such a nice spanish guy,maybe Neil Young shoud do a song about him;you know; like "Cortez the killer"!
colnago1978
Junior Member
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 19 Jul 2010 21:52

25 Jul 2010 13:02

The Hitch wrote:Cant just discuss this on a race thread. Espcially since i expect some words to come out of Andy at the end of the stage.

THis is likely the major debating point of the tour.


Discuss.
In a word – no.:D
sienna
Junior Member
 
Posts: 82
Joined: 25 Jul 2010 01:41
Location: australia

25 Jul 2010 16:16

Just re-watched the crucial stages:

Stage 2 to Spa: the was an oil spill and majority of GC favorites were involved in crashes. After these crashes peleton decided to stop racing and a victory was given to Chavanel. But it wasn't the decision of Contador to stop racing, it was the decision of major teams. Don't forget that Saxo had MJ during this stage and therefore Contador wasn't in unilateral decision making position.

Stage 3 full of cobbles: it has been well known that it will be one of major GC days of the Tour. Stages with cobbles are rare in TDF and we should ask the organizers why there were put in a route. Contador gained some time on a few GC rivals and lost some time to GC rivals as well. Andy was the major surprise of the day.

Stage to Luchon: everyone knows riders have race radios and Contador knew very well what has happened. Andy almost catched Contador on the hill but lost the stage on downhill because front group were working together while Andy was isolated. Contador could slow the tempo but he didn't.
guncha
Junior Member
 
Posts: 220
Joined: 14 Oct 2009 20:40

25 Jul 2010 16:47

colnago1978 wrote:Andy did't miss the gear,his bike jumped over the hole and chain fell off.

Contador is such a nice spanish guy,maybe Neil Young shoud do a song about him;you know; like "Cortez the killer"!


http://video.competitor.com/2010/07/cycling/velocenter-tdf-stage-19-extra/

SRAM rep describing what happened. Schleck attacked in 38/12, severely cross chained.

Rider error or poor gear selection for what he was doing. He took a chance and blew it. A rider induced mechanical. Not a mech failure or act of God. Any properly functioning gruppo could do the same in that situation.
henryg
Junior Member
 
Posts: 171
Joined: 18 Jul 2010 19:06

25 Jul 2010 17:14

Did any1 notice that Schleck, during the pose-attack together with Contador, said at one time (to AC) "I dropped my chain"? Im pretty sure, that's what he said. Lol, was it for real, or that supposed to be sarcasm?
"Well....Its an Aston Martin Vantage with a V12 engine... so what do you think its gonna be like?" JC :rolleyes:
User avatar MKirilenko
Junior Member
 
Posts: 131
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 15:59

25 Jul 2010 17:43

step23 wrote:Ouch, this thread is still alive! I will offer some new thought about whose fault was this all situation. It was Vino's fault! :D He shouted at AC and screamed: ATTACK! ATTACK!!!! So Bertie had no other option as to attack! That's why AC apologized to Andy :rolleyes: makes sense :D


I don't know if you were joking or not... but you are likely not far from the truth.

I don't think Contador knew for sure what was happening as he passed Schleck - imho. He was going full gas and he likely saw something, but probably wasn't sure, and dismissed it as a blown shift - something that all riders have done, and know are usually easily recovered from.

But Vino saw everything clearly. Because Vino stopped his acceleration when he caught Schleck. I don't know if the cars were actually with the group at the time of the incident. If not, then Sanquer or Martinelli wouldn't have been in position to be giving info to the riders on the radio. But Vinokourov would have been telling Contador what was going on using the radio, and very likely telling him what to do.

In this whole brouhaha the blame on Contador maybe misplaced.

Anyhow, in my opinion it was never an issue. I like Hesjedal's comment: "Schleck drew his sword and dropped it." The race was on, you don't stop. This said, I don't think Contador truly took advantage until the descent. For the entire tour he had been dropping Sanchez and Menchov at will. He didn't that day. I think he soft cocked it until Vino told him Schleck was back up front. Then Contador drilled it on the descent. I think that is fair enough. And I think Vino pretty much called the shots that day.
User avatar shouldawouldacoulda
Junior Member
 
Posts: 209
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 19:04

25 Jul 2010 17:56

henryg wrote:http://video.competitor.com/2010/07/cycling/velocenter-tdf-stage-19-extra/

SRAM rep describing what happened. Schleck attacked in 38/12, severely cross chained.

Rider error or poor gear selection for what he was doing. He took a chance and blew it. A rider induced mechanical. Not a mech failure or act of God. Any properly functioning gruppo could do the same in that situation.

You know it's bad when your equipment manufacturer throws you under the bus.
jazzcyclist
Junior Member
 
Posts: 32
Joined: 17 Jul 2010 18:36

25 Jul 2010 18:07

Schleck should have said WAIT and threw his arms out and grabbed Vino and AC by their jerseys, and stopped the race, lol.
santacruz
Junior Member
 
Posts: 343
Joined: 27 Apr 2010 18:35

25 Jul 2010 18:12

Don't cross chain or our equipment stops working, OK?? So shift PROPERLY and there wont be a problem! gosh!! Please Andy switch to eletric Shimano next year... and then talk about how awesome their crap is every day you are interviewed.
santacruz
Junior Member
 
Posts: 343
Joined: 27 Apr 2010 18:35

Chaingate wasn't a fluke

19 May 2011 18:29

Didn't wanna start a new thread.

Did anyone else notice Schleck blow shift during his attack on Sierra Road?

It's at about 2:12 in this video http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/2040

His bike jerks a bit, he looks down and missed a pedal stroke or two.
Phil reacts in the commentary but recovers as quickly as Schleck.

Maybe I'm just seeing things, or maybe Schleck still hasn't learned how to shift. :rolleyes:
biokemguy
Junior Member
 
Posts: 244
Joined: 18 Jan 2010 17:26
Location: Pasadena, Ca

19 May 2011 20:57

The return of the Schleck-anical, he'll never live it down :D

Also, never wait, its a race for who finishes first not who waits first.
CyclingNews Forum Member Number 1. (verified)
All my posts are of my own opinion.
October 10, 2012 The Reasoned Decision
Points: 10 CN Infraction Points
User avatar ElChingon
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5,919
Joined: 10 Mar 2009 03:19
Location: En el Internet, and Hiding from the UCI

Previous

Return to Professional road racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Libertine Seguros, LosBrolin, Michele, Nastyy, ray j willings and 21 guests

Back to top