2 Qs: Late 70s Gitane with new Cane Creek brakes/levers?

[mr. tibbs]

Hey guys, I just picked up a late 70s Gitane. It's currently sporting the original Weinmann 610/750 brake calipers, but I want to swap them out for Cane Creek 200sl brakes and SCR5 levers.

Q 1: Does anyone know if these will fit the frame (ie, will the Cane Creek brakes slot into the same space as the Weinmann brakes)?

The levers are the most important to me, as I want to ride comfortably on comfortable hoods rather than in the drops, flats, or metal levers.

Q 2: If I keep the Weinmann calipers, will the Cane Creek SCR5 levers work?

I'm not married to Cane Creek, so if there's a different brake lever that would work with the Weinmanns and has both a rubber hood and under-bartape cable routing, I'd be all for it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ustabe]

It's hard to tell without knowing more about the bike, mainly, the frame model, what kind of wheels it was designed for, and what kind of wheels are now on it. A couple of photos of how the current brakes fit wouldn't hurt, either.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Thanks, ustabe--and sorry for my absence. I had to close out the semester, and haven't had time to play with the Gitane.

The wheels are the original Samir Samonix rims (27 x 1 1/4). The Weinmann brakes are also still the original parts. I think they're center pull. Here's what they look like:

I'll shoot pics of the parts in situ on my bike if I can find a camera. ;(

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Hey guys, I just picked up a late 70s Gitane. It's currently sporting the original Weinmann 610/750 brake calipers, but I want to swap them out for Cane Creek 200sl brakes and SCR5 levers.

Q 1: Does anyone know if these will fit the frame (ie, will the Cane Creek brakes slot into the same space as the Weinmann brakes)?

The levers are the most important to me, as I want to ride comfortably on comfortable hoods rather than in the drops, flats, or metal levers.

Q 2: If I keep the Weinmann calipers, will the Cane Creek SCR5 levers work?

I'm not married to Cane Creek, so if there's a different brake lever that would work with the Weinmanns and has both a rubber hood and under-bartape cable routing, I'd be all for it.

Thanks in advance.

Measure the reach of the current brakes(center mount bolt to rim) and match with a modern brake. Buy 2 front brakes..use the rear as a nutted brake, drill the back hole out of the fork and use as a recessed brake.

Any brake lever will work on those handlebars.

 

[hiero2]

Interesting problem - and a month old - so you've probably already solved it.

However - a few comments. I'm not familiar with the Cane Creek brakes, which hampers me a bit, but there are some basic principles here that are operational.

First - those Weinmann's are in great shape. I'll infer that the frame is also low-mileage good condition.

A simple fix would be to simply replace the Weinmann levers with a newer, and stiffer lever. The mechanical advantage of those centerpulls meant they were actually good brakes, but they could be improved by providing a stiffer lever. You would want new brake pads.

The critical factors for replacing them will be the brake drop - already mentioned - but this is the distance between the brake mounting post/bolt and the braking area on the rim. For instance, if you were to replace those wheels with the more commonly available 700c wheels, the Weinmann's would no longer be the right brake. The drop distance would have increased, you see.

Since you are keeping the 27" rims, I will guess that the brake drop on newer brakes will be within workable limits. But you would need to take a look at the brakes you want and make the measurements.

The last factor would be the mounting post. The mounting posts used to be a standard size for many years. I don't know what they are today - but again, you have the Weinmann's in hand, so you can measure the post diameter. Get a hold of your Cane Creeks, and measure them to compare.

Frankly, I don't understand bustedknuckle's advice about using two front brakes. Maybe you do, which leaves you ahead of me. If you had to drill one of the mounting post holes out a little, I wouldn't think it would be a problem on an old steel frame like this. These older steel frames are robust enough it should be able to tolerate such.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Interesting problem - and a month old - so you've probably already solved it.

However - a few comments. I'm not familiar with the Cane Creek brakes, which hampers me a bit, but there are some basic principles here that are operational.

First - those Weinmann's are in great shape. I'll infer that the frame is also low-mileage good condition.

A simple fix would be to simply replace the Weinmann levers with a newer, and stiffer lever. The mechanical advantage of those centerpulls meant they were actually good brakes, but they could be improved by providing a stiffer lever. You would want new brake pads.

The critical factors for replacing them will be the brake drop - already mentioned - but this is the distance between the brake mounting post/bolt and the braking area on the rim. For instance, if you were to replace those wheels with the more commonly available 700c wheels, the Weinmann's would no longer be the right brake. The drop distance would have increased, you see.

Since you are keeping the 27" rims, I will guess that the brake drop on newer brakes will be within workable limits. But you would need to take a look at the brakes you want and make the measurements.

The last factor would be the mounting post. The mounting posts used to be a standard size for many years. I don't know what they are today - but again, you have the Weinmann's in hand, so you can measure the post diameter. Get a hold of your Cane Creeks, and measure them to compare.

Frankly, I don't understand bustedknuckle's advice about using two front brakes. Maybe you do, which leaves you ahead of me. If you had to drill one of the mounting post holes out a little, I wouldn't think it would be a problem on an old steel frame like this. These older steel frames are robust enough it should be able to tolerate such.

Drill out the brake hole of the fork for a recessed bolt(first front brake). BUT the rear brake bridge is pretty thin, plus the difficulty of getting a drill bit into that means just buy another front brake(long brake bolt) and use it as a nutted, not recessed nut, type brake. Easy, done it more than a few times on older frames.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Drill out the brake hole of the fork for a recessed bolt(first front brake).

If it's not too late, don't do this. The crown is likely not engineered for this.

BN then called it right. You are going to have to find a brake with a long enough center bolt and use a regular nut on the back and like others said, the long reach.

Hang onto those brakes and levers though!

Post some pictures of the whole bike. Let's see what you have.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

If it's not too late, don't do this. The crown is likely not engineered for this.

BN then called it right. You are going to have to find a brake with a long enough center bolt and use a regular nut on the back and like others said, the long reach.

Hang onto those brakes and levers though!

Post some pictures of the whole bike. Let's see what you have.

Older crowns are built to last and making the rear hole a few mms larger to accomodate a recessed nut won't hurt anything.

 

[hiero2]

Drill out the brake hole of the fork for a recessed bolt(first front brake). BUT the rear brake bridge is pretty thin, plus the difficulty of getting a drill bit into that means just buy another front brake(long brake bolt) and use it as a nutted, not recessed nut, type brake. Easy, done it more than a few times on older frames.

Ah, now I understand. I agree - this is a good solution. If you don't want to drill you can do both front and back "nutted". But given the price range of this bike when new, I would expect the crown to be robust enough to stand drilling out the hole. I imagine there were steel frames from that era light enough that the crown might be too thin - but I have never seen any - and if you had one of those it would have had drilled out Campy components all around. Anybody looking to save so much weight that they chintzed on the crown would have been drilling derailleur bodies, too! Drilled chains, crank-rings, brake levers . . .

 

[ustabe]

But given the price range of this bike when new, I would expect the crown to be robust enough to stand drilling out the hole. I imagine there were steel frames from that era light enough that the crown might be too thin - but I have never seen any - and if you had one of those it would have had drilled out Campy components all around.

Absolutely. The walls on the crowns of these old forks are pretty thick and robust. Increasing the diameter of one brake bolt hole by 2-3 mm isn't going to weaken the fork significantly. As for the rear brake bridge, use good judgement.

 

[mr. tibbs]

I'm a bit sketched out on drilling this thing, so maybe I'll try different brake levers until I find a set that works with the OG Weinmanns. I'm really just switching out the original levers b/c I want comfy hoods and cables that route under the bar tape so it looks cleaner. The Cane Creeks are the front-runner just cuz they're shaped like the 2008 Campy levers on my other bike.

I don't have a camera, but I'll have a local shop shoot some pics when I'm found a good fit.

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

@BK: I understand from your posts that you work at a shop. Care to divulge which? Just curious.