2010 Cervel R3 vs 2012 Fuji Altamira 1.0

[ealaniz]

hello,

i wanted to open some discussion on these frames as i'm looking for some input/suggestions.

my 2009 Fuji SL1 was replaced under warranty with the 2012 Altamira 1.0. the Altamira had not been built up and ridden yet because finally that i got the crank sorted out i was hesitating building up a brand new bike and riding it beginning now(late fall).

then, just a few weeks ago i saw a crazy(must buy;-) deal on a 2010 R3, so of course i had to do it as i'm a big Cervelo fan and i've never seen one within my budget until now. as the Cervelo is already a couple of years i had no problems building it up to start riding immediately. and i must say it's amazing so far, of course a big level up from the SL1, very very comfortable/stiff.

the issue now is that if i change to the Altamira in the spring, will i be upgrading, downgrading, or stagnating?

i'm disappointed to say the Altamira is ~50g heavier than R3, just because i expected more(<900g) considering the weight and age of the SL1(~950g). but the Altamira has the newer/bigger BB86, big/stiff looking front end, and very similar(almost identical) rear to the R3.

i have a lot of options of course in terms of selling, keeping, testing... i would really like to try the Altamira and compare it to the R3 but i would hate to find out it's really not as good and then sell it used vs new. the Altamira also has a really nice design with matt black so visually it's nice and different from the R3 which has barely changed over many years(however that's also a sign of solid design from Cervelo).

the Altamira also won the vuelta so that's a really good sign of perfomance and capabilities in the climbs. i really think fuji could and should have been under the 900g mark, especially if a 2010 R3 is ~870g, but the more important thing for me is if the comfort/stiffness of the Altamira will be similar to the R3.

initially as i like very much the looks and design of the Altamira, my feeling is to try it in spring. and this will really increase my experience/reference on these brands. however it could also be an option to sell them both and get a newer Cervelo with the bigger/stiffer BBright design, that's maybe even lighter than 870g;-)

so what do you all think?

thanks in advance for any input!

 

[avanti]

What I would do is build up the Fuji and ride it for a a couple of weeks then decide which bike I liked best. A few hundred miles on the Fuji would not decrease its value very much.
For an unethical alternative go to performance bike and test ride one.

 

[ealaniz]

i'm in Switzerland!

so no performance bike or trying at local shops. also i would not build/ride just for a couple hundred miles, used items are depreciated greatly in CH. the only good side to the depreciation here is that people like me can benefit buying a used cervelo and home electronics at great prices

 

[42x16ss]

I wouldn't get too carried away with the frame weight, 50 grams is a sip out your water bottle. You would lose that much sweat in the first hour or so of riding

Chances are if you switch to the Altamira there wouldn't be much difference compared to the Cervelo. Do you know someone who owns an Altamira? Maybe you could test it out.

If you love the Cervelo, why not sell your new Fuji frame and get a nice set of handbuilt wheels for your Cervelo?

 

[ealaniz]

yea yea i already made my point clear about the weight, so i will not repeat or copy and paste.

and for sure i don't see or know anyone with an altamira.

the cervelo is great and for sure a big upgrade from the SL1, but again i made some clear points about the strengths of the altamira. either way i'm sure to upgrade the wheels early next year as i've been on the same pair for a couple of years.

 

[42x16ss]

yea yea i already made my point clear about the weight, so i will not repeat or copy and paste.

and for sure i don't see or know anyone with an altamira.

the cervelo is great and for sure a big upgrade from the SL1, but again i made some clear points about the strengths of the altamira. either way i'm sure to upgrade the wheels early next year as i've been on the same pair for a couple of years.

Is it possible to take the groupset off your Cervelo and run it on the Fuji frame for a month or so? If you really like it, then you can stick with the Fuji.

 

[ealaniz]

Is it possible to take the groupset off your Cervelo and run it on the Fuji frame for a month or so? If you really like it, then you can stick with the Fuji.

huh?! was already recommended and discussed before...

 

[durianrider]

50g eh?

Not sure if srs...

 

[ealaniz]

i find it very strange how people fixate themselves on weight when i mention the 50g difference between the 2 frames, yet no one has any input on the other 80% of my post which includes stiffness/comfort, BB (bsa vs bb86), similarities in frame design, newer fuji vs 2 year old cervelo...

as soon as weight is mentioned it seems some people can lose track or sense of the whole post. i think it's completely normal i weighed the frames and included that information in the post. the actual weight is nice to know and can potentially give information to someone interested who didn't know. weight is not the only factor in the decision, otherwise i would have never posted and mentioned other factors if all i was concerned about was the weight. that should be obvious to anyone reading the full post...

-----------

anyway, back to comparative issues. i've been testing the cervelo on bad roads / cobbles and it's very impressive on these surfaces. it doesn't bounce around, it keeps a straight line, and somehow remains comfortable!? i'm not riding it super hard but can really feel how stiff it is doing hills in the big ring, and momentum is great when flying home at the end of a ride.

i've read the altamira is suppose to be a really comfortable bike as well. i was happy to see a cervelo style rear end in the design. and as i mentioned before, i expect the bigger BB86(vs BSA) and tubing to give a good amount of stiffness for power transfer. however it's in strong competition against the R3, but maybe the altamira can be close since the cervelo is a 2010.

it would be nice to hear from people who have ridden or heard comments about the altamira. also for the R3, but the reviews and comments seem consistent and positive with the cervelo, so comparative comments would be appreciated!

if there is not much input i guess we'll have to wait till next year when i most likely have to test for myself. but in these days of the internet/forums i would hope and expect to find some people to give some input(other than weight:-/)...

 

[The Gnome]

well, you do yourself mention frame weight no less than 6 times in your original post...gives folks the impression that that is VERY big deal to you...

 

[ealaniz]

well i am also discussing 3 frames in the original post!

and as i said, i was very surprised at the R3 weight. also i think it's reasonable to have expected a bit less weight from fuji when they changed the carbon and molding process in the newer frames. it's a point and perspective, not a deciding factor.

the deciding factor will come more from comfort / stiffness and climbing / descending(which i will not be able to do much in winter)...

still i think it's normal to mention these things, and probably normal for me to finally realize that some people have a phobia to others mentioning weight;-)

 

[avanti]

There are lots of reviews of the Fuji bike on the internet and here are a few:

http://www.bicycling.com/gearfinderproductdetail?gfid=60251
http://bikecatapult.blogspot.com/2012/05/product-review-fuji-altamira-di2.html#!/2012/05/product-review-fuji-altamira-di2.html
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/fuji/fuji-altamira-261196.html
http://bikes.velonews.com/l/852/2012-Fuji-Altamira-3-0

Fuji track and CX bikes have a good name and are popular with racers (I have a Fuji Aluminum alloy CX bike). As far a road bikes go I never see one on the roads and I suspect that cyclists might avoid them since they are sold thru mass marketers and there are other great bikes available though local bike shops for the same price. These comments are based on my experience in California and Colorado.

You could always keep your Fuji frame as a spare to use if you clobber your Cervelo (I've seen several riders bust their carbon frames (both road and track) in crashes).

 

[The Gnome]

well i am also discussing 3 frames in the original post!

and as i said, i was very surprised at the R3 weight. also i think it's reasonable to have expected a bit less weight from fuji when they changed the carbon and molding process in the newer frames. it's a point and perspective, not a deciding factor.

the deciding factor will come more from comfort / stiffness and climbing / descending(which i will not be able to do much in winter)...

still i think it's normal to mention these things, and probably normal for me to finally realize that some people have a phobia to others mentioning weight;-)

so build them both out and ride and decide...if you cant then go to a shop to test ride...comfort comes down to very personal things...you get upset people focus on your weight issues...then ask for advice how it will deal with cobbles ect after only talking about frame weights...people cant really answer comfort stuff and how it will feel to you as it is pretty personal and individualistic...you understand that, right...

 

[durianrider]

i find it very strange how people fixate themselves on weight when i mention the 50g difference between the 2 frames, yet no one has any input on the other 80% of my post which includes stiffness/comfort, BB (bsa vs bb86), similarities in frame design, newer fuji vs 2 year old cervelo...

as soon as weight is mentioned it seems some people can lose track or sense of the whole post. i think it's completely normal i weighed the frames and included that information in the post. the actual weight is nice to know and can potentially give information to someone interested who didn't know. weight is not the only factor in the decision, otherwise i would have never posted and mentioned other factors if all i was concerned about was the weight. that should be obvious to anyone reading the full post...

-----------

anyway, back to comparative issues. i've been testing the cervelo on bad roads / cobbles and it's very impressive on these surfaces. it doesn't bounce around, it keeps a straight line, and somehow remains comfortable!? i'm not riding it super hard but can really feel how stiff it is doing hills in the big ring, and momentum is great when flying home at the end of a ride.

i've read the altamira is suppose to be a really comfortable bike as well. i was happy to see a cervelo style rear end in the design. and as i mentioned before, i expect the bigger BB86(vs BSA) and tubing to give a good amount of stiffness for power transfer. however it's in strong competition against the R3, but maybe the altamira can be close since the cervelo is a 2010.

it would be nice to hear from people who have ridden or heard comments about the altamira. also for the R3, but the reviews and comments seem consistent and positive with the cervelo, so comparative comments would be appreciated!

if there is not much input i guess we'll have to wait till next year when i most likely have to test for myself. but in these days of the internet/forums i would hope and expect to find some people to give some input(other than weight:-/)...

Gimme either of those bikes and I will dominate the climbs anyways. I think you should spend more time on riding vs thinking. Get a proper bike fit and use a white out pen to mark everything out so you have a reference point in case anything slips. Get a power meter. Doesnt matter if its a Fuji or Cervelo brah. As long as it fits its good enough.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

me me me me me me me ... I think you should spend more time on riding vs thinking. me me me me me....

I know literally thousands of people that would say you should take your own advice.

 

[42x16ss]

I know literally thousands of people that would say you should take your own advice.

Just wait until one of the resident pros (eg. 131313 or RH1986) call him out on all the self promo talk. If they ever bother it could make some entertaining reading

He does make a good point on the fit though, just go with the one that fits best and ride the cr@p out of it.

 

[ealaniz]

thanks for the reviews/links(fyi, the altamira is a 1.0 not 3.0), i already made a google search and came up with these before the post. information is fairly consistent and positive regarding performance/stiffness and especially comfort, so that's a good sign.

a spare bike is for sure always handy in the event of frame damage.

not sure what the issue is with asking others to recommend comfort?! i can say my SL1 is way more comfortable vs the alu fuji superlight, and the R3 is way more comfortable and stable than the SL1. even though it's all relative to my experience on these bike i think others can still interpret, understand, and use that information? so i don't agree that other people can not give usable input on comfort.

and Mr "dominator of the climbs" / "too much thinking vs riding", i see i touched another area of what i would call would ignorance and frustration from others who don't like post that are not easy to answer or find help with. maybe it's difficult for you to think and ride at the same time, but for me it's not an issue. i'm consistantly riding 800-1000km these past months and considering my level/training and weekend social life, i am happy with that. and a power meter is not at all in the budget for the moment.

regarding bike fit, a very good point but i already did a retul fit last year. these 3 frames are almost identical in geometry and my fitter said it was not problem making the switch and getting the same position.

--------------

i can see it's not an easy post to get much usable information from, i imagine it would be different if it was more Cervelo vs Trek / Cannandale / Pinarello / Specialized... i say that because i hear people give very descriptive information when talking about the ride from different top end manufacturers. i feel very lucky to have both of these frames in my possession now, so if i build the Altamira i'm really sure i will be close enough to the R3 and interesting to ride for much more than 1 month, after all it's still a pro level bike. also the Altamira will have a nicer/stiffer crank and maybe over winter i will be slowly upgrading my group from rival to red. so i'll probably spend the winter on the R3 and then build the Altamira in spring and see how feel mid/end of next season.