2010 Vuelta a España

[The Hitch]

2010 Vuelta a España

In the Vuelta threads there have been a few hints at doping but obviously we cant discuss it there so i will open this one.

1 Peter Velits. Todays performance has had a few people say its very suspicious. To woop Menchov and Cancellara in a flat tt. Wow
2 Frank Schleck is still riding despite his Fuentes problems. Is he still doping?
3 Current red jersey Vinnie Nibali. Has had links with Ferrari. Is he getting topped up.

Also TJVG has been ruled out by some because he lost time in the 3rd week.
Anything else.

Or is everyone doping.

 

[luckyboy]

Velits today (well, being top 10 on gc too) has been the first thing that has jumped out as (what seems to me at least as) blatant doping. Aside from the usual.

 

[The Hitch]

Velits today (well, being top 10 on gc too) has been the first thing that has jumped out as (what seems to me at least as) blatant doping. Aside from the usual.

You think he might get caught?

Maybe Anton. We all knew he was a good climber but he was on course to win this thing by minutes.

 

[papisimo98]

I was just about to post something about this.
Looking back at the stages....What is up with Menchov? I could understand Andy Schleck being down on the GC because he was "riding" for his brother.
But looking at Rabobank, it seems that Menchov is their GC guy yet he has been nowhere near the front of the race. What gives?
Then today he does a time trial that trumps Sparticus....maybe Menchov is just soft pedaling around Spain. His form seems dodgy to me.
Doesn't anyone else have an opinion on the matter.

 

[hrotha]

The only rider who has performed better than could be realistically (even optimistically) expected is Velits. Antón, Nibali, Fränk and pretty much everyone else have performed at their level, no surprises there.

 

[The Hitch]

I was just about to post something about this.
Looking back at the stages....What is up with Menchov? I could understand Andy Schleck being down on the GC because he was "riding" for his brother.
But looking at Rabobank, it seems that Menchov is their GC guy yet he has been nowhere near the front of the race. What gives?
Then today he does a time trial that trumps Sparticus....maybe Menchov is just soft pedaling around Spain. His form seems dodgy to me.
Doesn't anyone else have an opinion on the matter.

Menchov has seemed dodgy to me since he beat Danilo Di Luca who got caught, in the Giro.Not to mentione winning the Vuelta in 05 (dark days).

Has he cut down on it? Maybe.

 

[Escarabajo]

In the Vuelta threads there have been a few hints at doping but obviously we cant discuss it there so i will open this one.

1 Peter Velits. Todays performance has had a few people say its very suspicious. To woop Menchov and Cancellara in a flat tt. Wow
2 Frank Schleck is still riding despite his Fuentes problems. Is he still doping?
3 Current red jersey Vinnie Nibali. Has had links with Ferrari. Is he getting topped up.

...

If Schleck and Nibali are doping with O2 boosters is certainly not showing. So at least it would be hard to tell.

As for Velits is concerned. It looks very suspicious but I really hardly know him, so I haven't followed his progression to date.

If I were to follow Greg Lemond’s criteria and the Science of the Sports, one has to estimate his powers from the first 2 weeks and roughly compare them with today's performance. Or even take his best performance of his life and compare it with today. Anything above it is clearly dodgy IMHO.

I really don't have the time to do that know, but would be interested to read any links that have done so.

 

[Escarabajo]

...
Also TJVG has been ruled out by some because he lost time in the 3rd week.
Anything else.

Or is everyone doping.

The same applies to Uran. I just don't think that his crashes were all the reason why he is falling back that bad.

As far as everyone is doping is concerned I have 2 comments:

1- The fact that I see Moncoutié in the top group makes me think that the top riders are not aggressively doping or at least cut down on the O2 boosters.
2- It is hard not to use recuperation meds in this type of GT's. Most of these riders at least do that if you want to call that "Doping". I guess it is. So if TJ don't do that, surely he is going to fade away dramatically. Plus he is very young. He needs more kilometers in his legs.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Not So Fast

I don't know that it's useful to automatically go to doping as a reason for performances.

The Tour of Spain's position in the calendar make it **prime** World's training. So, it's hard to know who is there for what purposes in many cases.

Sometimes training just doesn't go right. Doping version 2010 won't fix every instance of poor form.

This Tour is still a 'last chance' for stage racers, so at the end of what may have been a season with injuries for many of the riders, I expect a few breakout performances.

That said, it would be interesting to see what the Watts/kg was for the time trial that happened today. I think it will be a better gauge of the doping going on. I'm sure doping is happening. The Tour of Spain's place on the calendar makes it harder to call doping out.

 

[Escarabajo]

I can to the watts/kg calculation if somebody tells me the wind speed on today's stage. As for the direction I can just play around with my crystal ball.

 

[luckyboy]

About Velits - he's not a bad TTer, but he hasn't shown anything like this before. 2'47" down on Cance in last year's TdSuisse Bern TT (39km). 2'13" down on AC in Annecy (40km). Final TT of the Tour 08 he was 4'41" (53km), 2'46" down on Kirchen in the first one (30km). Maybe he borrowed Cance's Roubaix bike or something.

Sorta feels bad casting aspersions on a stage win this soon after the event, but it just reminded me of GST 08 (Kohl & Schumacher) coming out of nowhere.

I was just about to post something about this.
Looking back at the stages....What is up with Menchov? I could understand Andy Schleck being down on the GC because he was "riding" for his brother.
But looking at Rabobank, it seems that Menchov is their GC guy yet he has been nowhere near the front of the race. What gives?

Gave everything to come 3rd in the Tour. Don't think he raced again til this Vuelta as well.

 

[Zoncolan]

Surely Velits should come in a minute ahead of Barredo?

I think it's just a case of crazy wind conditions.

Dave Z's, Millar's, Canc's, and Larsson's times relative to GC men's times are also highly indicative of that.

 

[hrotha]

Surely Velits should come in a minute ahead of Barredo?

I think it's just a case of crazy wind conditions.

Dave Z's, Millar's, Canc's, and Larsson's times relative to GC men's times are also highly indicative of that.

Barredo is a pretty decent TTer, and Larsson was 21st in the GC.

Although you're right, the comparison with Barredo is valid.

 

[papisimo98]

[/QUOTE]Gave everything to come 3rd in the Tour. Don't think he raced again til this Vuelta as well.[/QUOTE]

I feel awful forgetting so quickly that he did get third at the Tour. That does make sense to me. He is way down though.
Maybe the thought that not one rider has been sanctioned from the 2010 Tour has made the results seem unofficial at this point.

 

[van nelle]

Of course you never know, but the thing is that Peter Velits was always considered a great talent. And with that sort of talent, you never know when and what kind of result it will bring. I'm not overely suspicious of this kind of situation, I'm more alerted when an ordinary rider suddenly starts to be a world beater...

 

[flicker]

With Lance and Bruyneel also levi out of the vuelta I woold say the 2010 vuelta is as clean as a wistle.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I was waiting for many month for Peter Velits to "explode".
Last season I thought: Velits + THC Columbia = Peter will explode and have huge results
This combination is awesome.
His huge talent and this big, rich team with their effective internal testing program.
But I think there will never be a rider of this team who will fail one single dopingtest.

 

[luckyboy]

I feel awful forgetting so quickly that he did get third at the Tour. That does make sense to me. He is way down though.
Maybe the thought that not one rider has been sanctioned from the 2010 Tour has made the results seem unofficial at this point.

Don't think there's been a positive during a GT for a while now. Di Luca was the last I remember, and that was announced two months later. Before that was the Tour 08 & Ricco...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

With Lance and Bruyneel also levi out of the vuelta I woold say the 2010 vuelta is as clean as a wistle.

Lance has never tested positive, hater.

 

[royalpig180]

Lance has never tested positive, hater.

Lets be realistic here... to win the tour 7 times in a row, during a dark period of cycling as far as doping is concerned? And do that clean?

I don't think it detracts from the accomplishment too much (its still hard work to dominate a field of dopers), but come on...

 

[Ferminal]

THR have an internal testing regime, there's no way any of the riders would risk doping.

Sastre had a solid ITT btw.

 

[luckyboy]

That THR bit was sarcasm right?

 

[Barrus]

Shut up about Lance, all of you

 

[auscyclefan94]

THR have an internal testing regime, there's no way any of the riders would risk doping.

Sastre had a solid ITT btw.

So did T-Mobile in 2006! Just don't forget where HTC came from and who's managing them!

 

[JPM London]

1- The fact that I see Moncoutié in the top group makes me think that the top riders are not aggressively doping or at least cut down on the O2 boosters.

Agree... Also, and yes you can all call me naive, I like to think of Sastre as a clean contender and the fact that he's right up there at the top - it can't be too doped...

The wind yesterday changed - good thing to note is that FC is sitting on the best intermediate times. If Velits/Menchov rode as they did because of dope, then it means that the dope was a rocket up their bidons 15k before the finish...