2011 Vuelta returning to Pays Basque?

[craig1985]

At the bottom of this story,

I know Basque people consider themselves Basque before they are considered Spanish, but what is the real politics that stop Unipublic from going there? To the (ignorant) outsider, Franco is dead and the Spanish Civil War ended decades ago, let it go.

But that would be trolling, and not my intention, they have two ProTour races, why can't the Vuelta go through there?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

This is a very potted history and will no doubt contain a few over-simplifications and errors:

Franco crushed the nationalities, of which there are a few in Spain. Catalans consider themselves Catalan before Spanish, and Galicians consider themselves Galician before Spanish, but they are at least ethnically and linguistically related to the Castilians. Basques are not. The Basque language is a language isolate not even remotely related to Spanish or in fact any other language in Europe, possibly anywhere.

There's a lot of nationalist feeling amongst the Basques, which Franco attempted to quell by running roughshod over them. This led to many uprisings and protests, and eventually the formation of Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (ETA), a militaristic separatist group. They were founded in 1959, and stepped up their activities to include terrorism from 1968 onwards, perhaps influenced by uprisings across Europe in that year leading to terrorism, such as the Baader-Meinhof Gang/RAF in Germany. Over 800 people have died at the hands of ETA in the last 40 years. They are also the people responsible for the Madrid bombing of a few years ago.

After Franco's death in 1975, when Spain returned to democracy, there was a period of transition. Expectations amongst the large numbers of Basque separatists were high (even though over the previous 40 years nationalist policy had seen large numbers of Spaniards move into the Basque country, similar to how Mussolini had tried to quell Südtirol's German identity by creating industrial works and bringing Italians in from afar to work there), but the area remained in a state of turmoil; Suárez refused to deal with terrorists, ETA split into a political-military and military arm, and trouble escalated. In the 1977 elections, the PNV (Partido Nacionalista Vasco) and PDC (Pacte Democratic per Catalunya) were highly successful in their respective areas, and disappointment at the failure to secure independence or in fact any higher autonomy, led them to refuse offers of amnesty, and the period 1978-1980 remains the most violent in the history of the group.

Hence, after the difficulties and protests at the 1978 Vuelta running through the area, Unipublic were not keen on offering a chance for ETA - whose activities were intensifying at that point - a golden opportunity to make a big statement. From the 1980s, ETA bombings of major Spanish cities - usually car bombs - have been sporadic, plus "counterterroristic" groups like GAL (carrying out terroristic attacks on ETA themselves) have also contributed to unrest. There have been a number of ceasefires and reductions in activity, usually with the Basque political parties being offered a carrot in some form of grant of further autonomy. However, every time peace proposals are offered by ETA or the Spanish government, some conditions are unacceptable to the other side.

The tightening of anti-terrorist laws across Europe as a result of the September 11 attacks in the US have put a lid on the extent of terroristic activities in the Basque country, which reached their zenith in 1997 with the kidnapping and subsequent murder of a prominent politician when their demands were not met.

There are also a number of non-violent and less violent Basque nationalist movements, who Unipublic feared could use sitdown protests, rioting, fighting, road blocking and so on to disrupt the race. The right to a Basque referendum, first planned in 2007 and scheduled for 2008, though still incomplete and a contentious issue, suggests a (relatively) more conciliatory attitude between the Spaniards and Basques, and with ETA activity on the wane after the permanent ceasefire called in 2006, they've decided that now might be the time to send the Vuelta into the Basque country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_referendum,_2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euskaldunon_Egunkaria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ETA_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Angel_Blanco

 

[ruamruam]

They are also the people responsible for the Madrid bombing of a few years ago.

Whatever one thinks of ETA they were not responsible for the Madrid bombings, the bombings were carried out by an Islamic group. The then Spanish government attempted to blame ETA for short term political gain as there was an election a few days later.

Many believe the Aznar government lost the general election due to it's support for the deeply unpopular war in Iraq and the bombings were seen by many Spanish as a punishment by radical islamic groups for Spain's involvement in the war. It is thought that this tipped the election in Zapatero's favour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Whatever one thinks of ETA they were not responsible for the Madrid bombings, the bombings were carried out by an Islamic group. The then Spanish government attempted to blame ETA for short term political gain as there was an election a few days later.

Many believe the Aznar government lost the general election due to it's support for the deeply unpopular war in Iraq and the bombings were seen by many Spanish as a punishment by radical islamic groups for Spain's involvement in the war. It is thought that this tipped the election in Zapatero's favour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings

2001 Madrid bombings. Those WERE ETA. My apologies for the confusion. Because of ETA being blamed for the 2004 bombings and the proximity to 9/11, I have a tendency to confuse them.

 

[The Hitch]

@ Craig. I dont intend to be a grammar Nazi but it is wierd to see the Spanish word for country "Pais" be written Payse, though maybe it was intended, and since im already on the subject, the phrase is "Pais Vasco"

As for Vuelta 2011 going there, considering the Basque love for cycling, it would be a good symbolic outreach to the Basque people.

Whatever one thinks of ETA they were not responsible for the Madrid bombings, the bombings were carried out by an Islamic group. The then Spanish government attempted to blame ETA for short term political gain as there was an election a few days later.

Many believe the Aznar government lost the general election due to it's support for the deeply unpopular war in Iraq and the bombings were seen by many Spanish as a punishment by radical islamic groups for Spain's involvement in the war. It is thought that this tipped the election in Zapatero's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings

Your premise that "the bombings were seen by many Spanish as a punishment by radical islamic groups for Spain's involvement in the war" is deeply offensive.

The spanish did in fact see this, as mass murder of men women and children by religious nutcases.

Since your basis for that argument is the great historical source that is wikipedia, i will quote to you another line from that article

"In the aftermath of the bombings there were massive street demonstrations across Spain to protest the train bombings"

Maybe when the forces of religion start massacring innocents in your country, you can follow in this line of argument and blame, the government, homosexuals, jews etc (take your pick), but fortunately, the people of spain were wiser than that.

Please dont attempt to damage the image of spain and spanish people with this demagoguery again.
Thank you.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

@ Craig. I dont intend to be a grammar Nazi but it is wierd to see the Spanish word for country "Pais" be written Payse, though maybe it was intended, and since im already on the subject, the phrase is "Pais Vasco"

On the other hand, Pays-Basque is the correct expression for the area in French.

I prefer to use Euskal Herria. It avoids confusion.

 

[The Hitch]

On the other hand, Pays-Basque is the correct expression for the area in French.

I prefer to use Euskal Herria. It avoids confusion.

woops my bad. Didnt know that.

Still this discussion is about the Basques and the vuelta not the tour, so pais vasco will be the correct expression here

 

[top_tenz_finish]

So you don't think that many people saw the bombings as a consequence of the Government's involvement in the war? I think in some part they clearly were, just as the London bombings were down in some part to the UK's involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan etc.
I know from a lot of good friends in Spain, some of whom are involved in groups that protested and are opposed to the country being involved in such conflicts, that they certainly saw the link.
It is possible to look at the bombings and see it as a "mass murder of men women and children by religious nutcases" but also think that they did to punish the involvement in the war.

I think many also were a bit suspicious and angered (rightly so imo) that the Government tried to blame ETA and cover up the true circumstances of the attack.

 

[sartoris]

... I know Basque people consider themselves Basque before they are considered Spanish, ...

Really??? How many??? How do you know???

Please, someone move this **** to the rubbish!

We're talking cycling!

 

[ingsve]

woops my bad. Didnt know that.

Still this discussion is about the Basques and the vuelta not the tour, so pais vasco will be the correct expression here

Well, since we are all different nationalities the important thing is that we understand what is meant.

However, if it for some reason is important what words are used then this is an english language forum so the correct expression would actually be Basque Country.

 

[The Hitch]

I think many also were a bit suspicious and angered (rightly so imo) that the Government tried to blame ETA and cover up the true circumstances of the attack.

That is most definately true. Trying to blame it on eta was a big mistake.

So you don't think that many people saw the bombings as a consequence of the Government's involvement in the war? I think in some part they clearly were, just as the London bombings were down in some part to the UK's involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan etc.
I know from a lot of good friends in Spain, some of whom are involved in groups that protested and are opposed to the country being involved in such conflicts, that they certainly saw the link.
It is possible to look at the bombings and see it as a "mass murder of men women and children by religious nutcases" but also think that they did to punish the involvement in the war.

Its one think to see the link and another to say its a punishment. The fact that Spain was involved in these conflicts was definately a reason why it was targeted rather than other european countries, but it is not the only reason why these extremists choose to murder innocent people.

I find it as offensive to say that Spanish people was "punished" by this scum for the foreign policy its elected democratic chose to pursue, as i find it offensive to say that women and children in Iraqi marketplaces are being punished by these same people for being Shia or for being Kurdish, or any more than

For me, the Spanish people commited no crime, nor did they in any way aggrieve these extremists and therefore they were not punished for anything. They were attacked.

As for the UK, there is a well documented presence of home grown extremists accross the UK which has been around since before 911, whose grievances include the freedom of women,the secular nature of British society, the presence of dogs (unclean animals) in public, and the fact that Christian hollydays are nationalised (well they got one right) and attacks on Britain by these same people can be attributed as much to these beliefs, as they can to the fact that Britain involved itself in Mesopotamia (a region from which non of the bombers of the london underground come from).

 

[hrotha]

Really??? How many??? How do you know???

Please, someone move this **** to the rubbish!

We're talking cycling!

I'd say it's 50-50, really. A non-nationalist party won the last elections, but before that a Basque nationalist party had ruled for some 30 years, and you can't ignore banning Batasuna (left-wing nationalists regarded as ETA's political arm), whether justified or not, skews the results.

There's also the fact that regional identities are pretty strong in Spain, so many people would consider themselves "Basque before Spanish" without necessarily being nationalists, just as, say, a Leonese person. Basque nationalists wouldn't consider themselves Spanish, period.

The reason why the Vuelta doesn't go to the Basque Country, of course, is to avoid trouble. Not because ETA itself would do anything, but rather because Basque nationalists could disrupt the race. In the 1996 Tour, which included a stage finish in Pamplona, some guys tried to block the road while the race was on.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Think of Catalunya and the Basque country like Scotland or Wales, but if they weren't acknowledged as separate countries by England. They have their own identity, their own traditions, languages and cultures, but they don't have independence or autonomy.

 

[Arnout]

I'd say it's 50-50, really. A non-nationalist party won the last elections, but before that a Basque nationalist party had ruled for some 30 years, and you can't ignore banning Batasuna (left-wing nationalists regarded as ETA's political arm), whether justified or not, skews the results.

There's also the fact that regional identities are pretty strong in Spain, so many people would consider themselves "Basque before Spanish" without necessarily being nationalists, just as, say, a Leonese person. Basque nationalists wouldn't consider themselves Spanish, period.

The reason why the Vuelta doesn't go to the Basque Country, of course, is to avoid trouble. Not because ETA itself would do anything, but rather because Basque nationalists could disrupt the race. In the 1996 Tour, which included a stage finish in Pamplona, some guys tried to block the road while the race was on.

It is exactly because of that that now the Vuelta will return. The moderate nationalist party was ruling for over 30 years indeed and the smaller extreme nationalist parties were in support of the nationalist policy, thus creating a majority in the Basque parliament. But some days before the most recent elections all of a sudden the more extreme Basque nationalist parties were banned and supporters of that parties voted blanco instead (and not the moderate parties), which meant actually (including the extra blanco votes) the nationalists are still a majority, but on paper the pro - Madrid parties are. One of the first things they would change, they said, was trying to bring back the Vuelta to the Basque country.

 

[top_tenz_finish]

That is most definately true. Trying to blame it on eta was a big mistake.



Its one think to see the link and another to say its a punishment. The fact that Spain was involved in these conflicts was definately a reason why it was targeted rather than other european countries, but it is not the only reason why these extremists choose to murder innocent people.

I find it as offensive to say that Spanish people was "punished" by this scum for the foreign policy its elected democratic chose to pursue, as i find it offensive to say that women and children in Iraqi marketplaces are being punished by these same people for being Shia or for being Kurdish, or any more than

For me, the Spanish people commited no crime, nor did they in any way aggrieve these extremists and therefore they were not punished for anything. They were attacked.

I agree that they were attacked, the original poster probably does too, I am sure as well that everyone deplores what happened. What though did the extremist attackers think? They could well have thought they were punishing the Spanish public and so yes have a go at them for that thought. I am sure they were trying to be offensive, that is why they carried out their attacks after all.

It was not what the original poster thought but rather what he (and possibly others) thought the attackers were thinking, what their motives were.


I think it must be clear to see that terrorist attacks do target the general public in so many cases, why then do they do that? Of course there are attacks on the public which are meant to send a message to the government and 'establishment' of that country. There may be a few other reasons too, who knows really? As for the quote below, yes there may have been extremists before 9/11 but is naive to suggest that the subsequent terror attacks in the UK were not a by-product of that or the involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. The attackers may not have been from the same region but remember, it is about their religion, not nationality in this case.

As for the UK, there is a well documented presence of home grown extremists accross the UK which has been around since before 911, whose grievances include the freedom of women,the secular nature of British society, the presence of dogs (unclean animals) in public, and the fact that Christian hollydays are nationalised (well they got one right) and attacks on Britain by these same people can be attributed as much to these beliefs, as they can to the fact that Britain involved itself in Mesopotamia (a region from which non of the bombers of the london underground come from).

The situation is however obviously a very emotive one and so I can see where people's rationality can be compromised.

 

[ruamruam]

Your premise that "the bombings were seen by many Spanish as a punishment by radical islamic groups for Spain's involvement in the war" is deeply offensive.

The spanish did in fact see this, as mass murder of men women and children by religious nutcases.

Since your basis for that argument is the great historical source that is wikipedia, i will quote to you another line from that article

"In the aftermath of the bombings there were massive street demonstrations across Spain to protest the train bombings"

Maybe when the forces of religion start massacring innocents in your country, you can follow in this line of argument and blame, the government, homosexuals, jews etc (take your pick), but fortunately, the people of spain were wiser than that.

Please dont attempt to damage the image of spain and spanish people with this demagoguery again.
Thank you.

I am not arguing that it was not mass murder, in my book it was indiscriminate slaughter. I am just saying what many Spanish people said to me in the aftermath of the bombs. Spanish people were rightly disgusted by the bombings but many were also angry at their government as they attempted to blame ETA for the bombings when it was blatantly obvious it was Islamic fundamentalist who perpetrated the crime.

The basis of my argument was not the Wikipedia article, I merely included a link so people not aware of the bombings and aftermath could read about it. I was living in Asturias in the north of Spain at the time and a large number of Spanish did feel they were being punished for their involvement in the Iraqi war, which was deeply unpopular in Spain. I am not saying the Spanish felt this punishment was justified just that many felt it was a direct consequence of Spanish involvement in the war in Iraq. I am only repeating what many of my Spanish friends said to me at the time.

 

[hrotha]

I am not arguing that it was not mass murder, in my book it was indiscriminate slaughter. I am just saying what many Spanish people said to me in the aftermath of the bombs. Spanish people were rightly disgusted by the bombings but many were also angry at their government as they attempted to blame ETA for the bombings when it was blatantly obvious it was Islamic fundamentalist who perpetrated the crime.

The basis of my argument was not the Wikipedia article, I merely included a link so people not aware of the bombings and aftermath could read about it. I was living in Asturias in the north of Spain at the time and a large number of Spanish did feel they were being punished for their involvement in the Iraqi war, which was deeply unpopular in Spain. I am not saying the Spanish felt this punishment was justified just that many felt it was a direct consequence of Spanish involvement in the war in Iraq. I am only repeating what many of my Spanish friends said to me at the time.

I can confirm this.

 

[Señor_Contador]

This is a very potted history and will no doubt contain a few over-simplifications and errors:

Franco crushed the nationalities, of which there are a few in Spain. Catalans consider themselves Catalan before Spanish, and Galicians consider themselves Galician before Spanish, but they are at least ethnically and linguistically related to the Castilians. Basques are not. The Basque language is a language isolate not even remotely related to Spanish or in fact any other language in Europe, possibly anywhere.

There's a lot of nationalist feeling amongst the Basques, which Franco attempted to quell by running roughshod over them. This led to many uprisings and protests, and eventually the formation of Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (ETA), a militaristic separatist group. They were founded in 1959, and stepped up their activities to include terrorism from 1968 onwards, perhaps influenced by uprisings across Europe in that year leading to terrorism, such as the Baader-Meinhof Gang/RAF in Germany. Over 800 people have died at the hands of ETA in the last 40 years. They are also the people responsible for the Madrid bombing of a few years ago.

After Franco's death in 1975, when Spain returned to democracy, there was a period of transition. Expectations amongst the large numbers of Basque separatists were high (even though over the previous 40 years nationalist policy had seen large numbers of Spaniards move into the Basque country, similar to how Mussolini had tried to quell Südtirol's German identity by creating industrial works and bringing Italians in from afar to work there), but the area remained in a state of turmoil; Suárez refused to deal with terrorists, ETA split into a political-military and military arm, and trouble escalated. In the 1977 elections, the PNV (Partido Nacionalista Vasco) and PDC (Pacte Democratic per Catalunya) were highly successful in their respective areas, and disappointment at the failure to secure independence or in fact any higher autonomy, led them to refuse offers of amnesty, and the period 1978-1980 remains the most violent in the history of the group.

Hence, after the difficulties and protests at the 1978 Vuelta running through the area, Unipublic were not keen on offering a chance for ETA - whose activities were intensifying at that point - a golden opportunity to make a big statement. From the 1980s, ETA bombings of major Spanish cities - usually car bombs - have been sporadic, plus "counterterroristic" groups like GAL (carrying out terroristic attacks on ETA themselves) have also contributed to unrest. There have been a number of ceasefires and reductions in activity, usually with the Basque political parties being offered a carrot in some form of grant of further autonomy. However, every time peace proposals are offered by ETA or the Spanish government, some conditions are unacceptable to the other side.

The tightening of anti-terrorist laws across Europe as a result of the September 11 attacks in the US have put a lid on the extent of terroristic activities in the Basque country, which reached their zenith in 1997 with the kidnapping and subsequent murder of a prominent politician when their demands were not met.

There are also a number of non-violent and less violent Basque nationalist movements, who Unipublic feared could use sitdown protests, rioting, fighting, road blocking and so on to disrupt the race. The right to a Basque referendum, first planned in 2007 and scheduled for 2008, though still incomplete and a contentious issue, suggests a (relatively) more conciliatory attitude between the Spaniards and Basques, and with ETA activity on the wane after the permanent ceasefire called in 2006, they've decided that now might be the time to send the Vuelta into the Basque country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_referendum,_2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euskaldunon_Egunkaria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ETA_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Angel_Blanco

"[O]ver-simplifications and errors" doesn't even begin to describe it.

The ONE and ONLY reason why the Vuelta hasn't gone back to Euskadi (Basque Country) is ETA.

By the way, I am a Galician and a Spaniard and have no difficulty in reconciling both identities.

 

[Señor_Contador]

[...]I prefer to use Euskal Herria. It avoids confusion.

The only problem is that the confusion exists only in your head.

Euskal Herria does not exist.

 

[skidmark]

The only problem is that the confusion exists only in your head.

Euskal Herria does not exist.

National passions and political leanings aside, I'd like to ask a question for clarification. So, do I have this right?

- 'Pais Vasco' = Spanish term for the Basque province of Spain (with established political boundaries)
- 'Pays Basque' = French term for the Basque province of France (with established political boundaries)
- 'Euskal Herria' = Basque term describing both the Basque people and the space they occupy (not established political boundaries, but would include both French and Spanish areas inhabited by Basques)

 

[Señor_Contador]

National passions and political leanings aside, I'd like to ask a question for clarification. So, do I have this right?

- 'Pais Vasco' = Spanish term for the Basque province of Spain (with established political boundaries)
- 'Pays Basque' = French term for the Basque province of France (with established political boundaries)
- 'Euskal Herria' = Basque term describing both the Basque people and the space they occupy (not established political boundaries, but would include both French and Spanish areas inhabited by Basques)

More or less.

It's not "political leanings" or "national passion", it's a fact. You're mixing REAL political entities, namely Pais Vasco and Pays Basque, with paroquial innuendo, namely a pseudo-commonwealth known as Euskal Herria, which is a purely cultural entity.

Two different things.

If anyone talks to you about the Basque Country and refers to it as Euskal Herria then you know the person has Basque nationalist "tendencies". It's fascism 101.

 

[The Hitch]

I agree that they were attacked, the original poster probably does too, I am sure as well that everyone deplores what happened. What though did the extremist attackers think? They could well have thought they were punishing the Spanish public and so yes have a go at them for that thought. I am sure they were trying to be offensive, that is why they carried out their attacks after all.

It was not what the original poster thought but rather what he (and possibly others) thought the attackers were thinking, what their motives were.


I think it must be clear to see that terrorist attacks do target the general public in so many cases, why then do they do that? Of course there are attacks on the public which are meant to send a message to the government and 'establishment' of that country. There may be a few other reasons too, who knows really? As for the quote below, yes there may have been extremists before 9/11 but is naive to suggest that the subsequent terror attacks in the UK were not a by-product of that or the involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. The attackers may not have been from the same region but remember, it is about their religion, not nationality in this case.









The situation is however obviously a very emotive one and so I can see where people's rationality can be compromised.

I am not arguing that it was not mass murder, in my book it was indiscriminate slaughter. I am just saying what many Spanish people said to me in the aftermath of the bombs. Spanish people were rightly disgusted by the bombings but many were also angry at their government as they attempted to blame ETA for the bombings when it was blatantly obvious it was Islamic fundamentalist who perpetrated the crime.

The basis of my argument was not the Wikipedia article, I merely included a link so people not aware of the bombings and aftermath could read about it. I was living in Asturias in the north of Spain at the time and a large number of Spanish did feel they were being punished for their involvement in the Iraqi war, which was deeply unpopular in Spain. I am not saying the Spanish felt this punishment was justified just that many felt it was a direct consequence of Spanish involvement in the war in Iraq. I am only repeating what many of my Spanish friends said to me at the time.

Fair enough.

I will commend you on replying with grace, even though my original post was mean spirted.

For me the extremists had nothing to punish not just the spanish people for, but also the Spanish government, which hadnt commited any atrocities in Iraq, but had simply sent a small number of soldiers, mainly symbolicly. I therefore disagree with the word punish, because even if these people had been victimised by someone (which in my opinion they werent, because the wars were not attacks on their religion, or their people) it was not spain.

I made the point because i live in a country where the view that religious extremists have legitimate grievances with secular society is very prevalent, and allies of bin laden are represented in government.

 

[khardung la]

Think of Catalunya and the Basque country like Scotland or Wales, but if they weren't acknowledged as separate countries by England. They have their own identity, their own traditions, languages and cultures, but they don't have independence or autonomy.

Oh come on.....So much b...s....hit. They have more autonomy than any other region in Europe by far. They are de facto other countries, jumping the constitutional laws all the time. As for the "basques feel basques at not spanish" type of thing please do not speak for the millions of citizens, both there and in the rest of Spain. The Basque country was historically a stronghold of Spanish patriotism for centuries, from the very moment they decided to join the Castille Crown to the many Guerras Carlistas. Today is governed by a non-nationalistic coalition in spite of the pressure of the violents, which have expulsed many citizens out of the region...Things hopefully are coming back to normal again, Vuelta will come back because of that

Let's talk cycling please.

 

[khardung la]

National passions and political leanings aside, I'd like to ask a question for clarification. So, do I have this right?

- 'Pais Vasco' = Spanish term for the Basque province of Spain (with established political boundaries)
- 'Pays Basque' = French term for the Basque province of France (with established political boundaries)
- 'Euskal Herria' = Basque term describing both the Basque people and the space they occupy (not established political boundaries, but would include both French and Spanish areas inhabited by Basques)

No it is not right.

Euskal Herria is an almost philosophical concept, a nightmare of expansion of a suposedly special people. The ones defending that idea claim other regions as well, such as Navarra and every land until the Ebro river in Spain and the Garonne in France. They actually include Navarra in their maps, a region that is an historical kingdom and larger than the Pais Vasco.

You can find some exerts of the ideology of the basque movement leader here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabino_Arana

As an example what he said of the Spaniards: "A great number of them seem to be undeniable testimony of Darwin's theory, since rather than men they resemble apes, rather less beastly than gorillas: do not search in their faces for the expression of human intelligence nor of any virtue; their eyes only reveal idiocy and brutishness"

Nice guy, rest in peace forever.

 

[hrotha]

Nice, Spanish nationalists.