2016 TdF, Stage 14: Montélimar → Villars-les-Dombes (209km)

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Re: 2016 TdF, Stage 14: Montélimar → Villars-les-Dombes (209

Kwibus said:
Really happy to see Big John sprinting again. First signs he could actually return to the top again.

Shame he went to Trek though.
Trek's Tour 2017 team is going to be fun: Contador vs Mollema vs Degenkolb, and Zubeldia and Irizar take up places with their jobs for life.
 
Re: 2016 TdF, Stage 14: Montélimar → Villars-les-Dombes (209

SKSemtex said:
Sagan 32/98. :)
And 76/98 in green? I dont know exactly but it is about 75. It is maybe more impressive stat. Anyway. Today he was horrible positioned 700-800m to the finish. He only followed wheels to 50 metres to go because of that poor positioning. But great effort to reach 3rd. He wouldnt beat Cav either.
 
Mar 15, 2016
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PremierAndrew said:
trucido said:
PremierAndrew said:
Pantani Attacks said:
Lemonbaloon said:
Cav is the smartest sprinter and he has the best riders to help him stay near the front in the finale with Eisel, Renshaw(although he is gonne now) and EBH.
Sagan by a landslide. Sagan doesn't even need a team. Kittel, Cav and the Gorilla all require a team to even top 3 a stage.
Cav would never f*ck up a sprint like Sagan did in MSR 2013.
Of course not, considering Cav would never be in the group contesting that finish in the first place.

You can't mess up something you'd never be a part of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCAUo-oUlj4

And anyway, I'm not claiming Cav is better in the classics than Sagan, I'm claiming he's smarter tactically. Which he undeniably is
And how does showing me a video of Cav winning a 40 man sprint counter my point of him never making that particular group anyway? Because it was MSR?

Why not show me a video of Cav in a small group contesting the win at the end of a classic instead?
 
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trucido said:
PremierAndrew said:
trucido said:
Of course not, considering Cav would never be in the group contesting that finish in the first place.

You can't mess up something you'd never be a part of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCAUo-oUlj4

And anyway, I'm not claiming Cav is better in the classics than Sagan, I'm claiming he's smarter tactically. Which he undeniably is
And how does showing me a video of Cav winning a 40 man sprint counter my point of him never making that particular group anyway? Because it was MSR?

Why not show me a video of Cav in a small group contesting the win at the end of a classic instead?
And how does pointing out that Cav is less versatile than Sagan have anything to do with the fact that Cav is one of the most tactically astute guys in the peloton while Sagan is average?
 
Mar 15, 2016
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Re: Re:

PremierAndrew said:
trucido said:
PremierAndrew said:
trucido said:
Of course not, considering Cav would never be in the group contesting that finish in the first place.

You can't mess up something you'd never be a part of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCAUo-oUlj4

And anyway, I'm not claiming Cav is better in the classics than Sagan, I'm claiming he's smarter tactically. Which he undeniably is
And how does showing me a video of Cav winning a 40 man sprint counter my point of him never making that particular group anyway? Because it was MSR?

Why not show me a video of Cav in a small group contesting the win at the end of a classic instead?
And how does pointing out that Cav is less versatile than Sagan have anything to do with the fact that Cav is one of the most tactically astute guys in the peloton while Sagan is average?
I'm not debating their tactical astuteness, but your statement about Cav in Sagan's postion at MSR '13.

You basically state that a 23 year old Cav (Sagan's age at MSR'13) would have been strong enough to make the final selection during the 2013 route (and associated conditions) to outwit the likes of Cancellara who would know he had the fastest sprint in the group (he was top 10 that year from the bunch behind).

The point is he would never have made the selection anyway, so discussing what he might have done in that situation is moot.

If you're wondering why I've added age into the discussion, it's a matter of experience. Here's an example of what Sagan would do now given a similar situation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQhWBlZStiA
 
Re: Re:

trucido said:
PremierAndrew said:
trucido said:
PremierAndrew said:
trucido said:
Of course not, considering Cav would never be in the group contesting that finish in the first place.

You can't mess up something you'd never be a part of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCAUo-oUlj4

And anyway, I'm not claiming Cav is better in the classics than Sagan, I'm claiming he's smarter tactically. Which he undeniably is
And how does showing me a video of Cav winning a 40 man sprint counter my point of him never making that particular group anyway? Because it was MSR?

Why not show me a video of Cav in a small group contesting the win at the end of a classic instead?
And how does pointing out that Cav is less versatile than Sagan have anything to do with the fact that Cav is one of the most tactically astute guys in the peloton while Sagan is average?
I'm not debating their tactical astuteness, but your statement about Cav in Sagan's postion at MSR '13.

You basically state that a 23 year old Cav (Sagan's age at MSR'13) would have been strong enough to make the final selection during the 2013 route (and associated conditions) to outwit the likes of Cancellara who would know he had the fastest sprint in the group (he was top 10 that year from the bunch behind).

The point is he would never have made the selection anyway, so discussing what he might have done in that situation is moot.

If you're wondering why I've added age into the discussion, it's a matter of experience. Here's an example of what Sagan would do now given a similar situation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQhWBlZStiA
:rolleyes:

As has been said, the fact that Cav isnt as strong as Sagan in classic races has no relevance on the fact that Cav is one of the most tactically astute finishers in the business. His ability to be able to pick the right wheel is second to none and he has always been a very good judge of exactly when to kick.
 
Mar 15, 2016
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Richeypen said:
:rolleyes:

As has been said, the fact that Cav isnt as strong as Sagan in classic races has no relevance on the fact that Cav is one of the most tactically astute finishers in the business. His ability to be able to pick the right wheel is second to none and he has always been a very good judge of exactly when to kick.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but this isn't the point I was responding to in the prior discussion.
 
Re: Re:

trucido said:
Richeypen said:
:rolleyes:

As has been said, the fact that Cav isnt as strong as Sagan in classic races has no relevance on the fact that Cav is one of the most tactically astute finishers in the business. His ability to be able to pick the right wheel is second to none and he has always been a very good judge of exactly when to kick.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but this isn't the point I was responding to in the prior discussion.
Errrrr, the point being that Cav's finishing nous means that he wouldnt feck up a finish like Sagan did in 2013 MSR. Sagan panicked and went way too early. It is irrelevant whether Cav could or couldnt get into such a finish, when he is there in the last km, its very very rare that his tactics let him down.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Sprint races are about positioning and speed, very little tactics are involved. They're boring. Wellens has great tactics, just look at every single race he won. Cav could never be in a situation where tactics play a major role because he gets dropped in about every race that isn't pancake flat. Flat stages are super predictable, hence tactics play no significant role.
 
Mar 15, 2016
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Re: Re:

Richeypen said:
trucido said:
Richeypen said:
:rolleyes:

As has been said, the fact that Cav isnt as strong as Sagan in classic races has no relevance on the fact that Cav is one of the most tactically astute finishers in the business. His ability to be able to pick the right wheel is second to none and he has always been a very good judge of exactly when to kick.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but this isn't the point I was responding to in the prior discussion.
Errrrr, the point being that Cav's finishing nous means that he wouldnt feck up a finish like Sagan did in 2013 MSR. Sagan panicked and went way too early. It is irrelevant whether Cav could or couldnt get into such a finish, when he is there in the last km, its very very rare that his tactics let him down.
Oh, so now we can plop <insert rider name here> at desired spot in the race just to prove our point?

Yea, let's just do that. Don't need to worry about making the final selection, having the tactical nous to stay/fend off attacks within the group when you are the marked man due to having the biggest kick/saving enough in the tank for the finish.

Makes sense.
 
Re: Re:

trucido said:
Richeypen said:
trucido said:
Richeypen said:
:rolleyes:

As has been said, the fact that Cav isnt as strong as Sagan in classic races has no relevance on the fact that Cav is one of the most tactically astute finishers in the business. His ability to be able to pick the right wheel is second to none and he has always been a very good judge of exactly when to kick.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but this isn't the point I was responding to in the prior discussion.
Errrrr, the point being that Cav's finishing nous means that he wouldnt feck up a finish like Sagan did in 2013 MSR. Sagan panicked and went way too early. It is irrelevant whether Cav could or couldnt get into such a finish, when he is there in the last km, its very very rare that his tactics let him down.
Oh, so now we can plop <insert rider name here> at desired spot in the race just to prove our point?

Yea, let's just do that. Don't need to worry about making the final selection, having the tactical nous to stay/fend off attacks within the group when you are the marked man due to having the biggest kick/saving enough in the tank for the finish.

Makes sense.
Wtf are you talking about. I was referring to the original post that you were discussing.
Onto the ignore list you go, Got to love July :rolleyes:
 
Mar 15, 2016
520
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0
Re: Re:

Richeypen said:
trucido said:
Richeypen said:
trucido said:
Richeypen said:
:rolleyes:

As has been said, the fact that Cav isnt as strong as Sagan in classic races has no relevance on the fact that Cav is one of the most tactically astute finishers in the business. His ability to be able to pick the right wheel is second to none and he has always been a very good judge of exactly when to kick.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but this isn't the point I was responding to in the prior discussion.
Errrrr, the point being that Cav's finishing nous means that he wouldnt feck up a finish like Sagan did in 2013 MSR. Sagan panicked and went way too early. It is irrelevant whether Cav could or couldnt get into such a finish, when he is there in the last km, its very very rare that his tactics let him down.
Oh, so now we can plop <insert rider name here> at desired spot in the race just to prove our point?

Yea, let's just do that. Don't need to worry about making the final selection, having the tactical nous to stay/fend off attacks within the group when you are the marked man due to having the biggest kick/saving enough in the tank for the finish.

Makes sense.
Wtf are you talking about. I was referring to the original post that you were discussing.
Onto the ignore list you go, Got to love July :rolleyes:
Yes and my original post was about Cav never making the final group. One less worthless poster to worry about!
 
Re: Re:

PremierAndrew said:
Pantani Attacks said:
Lemonbaloon said:
Cav is the smartest sprinter and he has the best riders to help him stay near the front in the finale with Eisel, Renshaw(although he is gonne now) and EBH.
Sagan by a landslide. Sagan doesn't even need a team. Kittel, Cav and the Gorilla all require a team to even top 3 a stage.
Cav would never f*ck up a sprint like Sagan did in MSR 2013.
The most watched rider in the final selection, forced to do a bit more work than the others, gets out-sprinted by a guy who's just been sitting on for the final km's.

If that's a f*ck up, then it's only been 3 weeks since Cav f*cked up - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KnEfILWTGo
 
Re: 2016 TdF, Stage 14: Montélimar → Villars-les-Dombes (209

You really have to hand it to Cavendish.
As far as Sagan is concerned he doesn't have the Manxman's straight line speed despite all his other attributes.
He did, however, go out and scavenge enough points at the intermediate and finish to limit Cavendish's gains in the Green.
 

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