2023 Tour de France route rumors

Page 15 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Of the Pyrenees alternatives suggested in the last posts, I would be suprised to see anything else than a Cauterets finish. Couraduque or Hospice de France doesn't seem likely. If one assumes they enter the Pyrenees in the second weekend, a plausible and at least okay set-up for the difficult stages, would be something like this:

Stage 8: Pailheres - Ax 3 Domains
Stage 9: Longish mountain stage in Pyrenees with descent finish, perhaps in Bagneres-de-Luchon or Loudervielle
Second week: Big medium mountain stage and a MTF, either at Ventoux or Aigoual via Lusette
Third week: 3 Alps stage including Col de la Loze MTF on stage 18 and either a Morzine via Joux-Plan or Culoz via Biche-Grand Colombier on stage 19.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Of the Pyrenees alternatives suggested in the last posts, I would be suprised to see anything else than a Cauterets finish. Couraduque or Hospice de France doesn't seem likely. If one assumes they enter the Pyrenees in the second weekend, a plausible and at least okay set-up for the difficult stages, would be something like this:

Stage 8: Pailheres - Ax 3 Domains
Stage 9: Longish mountain stage in Pyrenees with descent finish, perhaps in Bagneres-de-Luchon or Loudervielle
Second week: Big medium mountain stage and a MTF, either at Ventoux or Aigoual via Lusette
Third week: 3 Alps stage including Col de la Loze MTF on stage 18 and either a Morzine via Joux-Plan or Culoz via Biche-Grand Colombier on stage 19.
So 2013 with better Alps. I hope they will finish at Avoriaz or Les Gets after Joux-Plan if it's the final mountain stage.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Oct 25, 2020
82
80
780
The Hospice de France has never been used in the Tour??
In fairness to the smaller stage races in France like the Route du Sud, Provence and Paris-Nice, they have explored many new mountain top finishes and climbs.
Les Angles this year, Mont Faron, Turini, La Colmiane..... it might be difficult for the Tour to go to some of these climbs with the narrow roads etc.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
There's always Andorra. Most of the options are well known there, of course, but you can still do some less predictable things there. Now that La Gallina is fully paved and usable they could always use that and lead in to other options, especially the south side seeing as the Vuelta has typically climbed the other side via Canolich.



I mean, ideally you would go from that into the final 6km of Os de Civís but that's very unlikely as it's in Spain but only accessible from within Andorra, so I can't see it being a viable host. However, Vallnord Sector Arinsal, Pal or even just La Massana (since it hosts the MTB World Cup) would be possibilities. Vallnord ski resort controls both Arinsal and Pal as well as Arcalis so they are happy to pay up plenty, but not normally for the best options available. Arinsal has a steep enough final few kilometres to be decisive but it wouldn't be far enough to make it not worth attacking earlier.

You could also climb to Port d'Envalira like they did in 2003, very low gradient grinder, maybe stopping at one of the Grandvalira resorts - El Tarter, Soldeu or Grau-Roig - to make an Aprica-alike 5% grinder to go after the Collada de la Gallina. I'm a fan of Els Cortals, which would also be a cat.1, but that might detract from action on the prior climb, the main reasons I liked it so much were because a) it is more decisive than most MTF options in Andorra, since the trips to the country tend to be MTFs, and b) José María Jiménez won up there in the Volta a Catalunya in spectacular solo fashion.

The downside of this option is that having stages with steep climbs in Andorra is likely to appeal to and suit Sepp Kuss.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
There's always Andorra. Most of the options are well known there, of course, but you can still do some less predictable things there. Now that La Gallina is fully paved and usable they could always use that and lead in to other options, especially the south side seeing as the Vuelta has typically climbed the other side via Canolich.



I mean, ideally you would go from that into the final 6km of Os de Civís but that's very unlikely as it's in Spain but only accessible from within Andorra, so I can't see it being a viable host. However, Vallnord Sector Arinsal, Pal or even just La Massana (since it hosts the MTB World Cup) would be possibilities. Vallnord ski resort controls both Arinsal and Pal as well as Arcalis so they are happy to pay up plenty, but not normally for the best options available. Arinsal has a steep enough final few kilometres to be decisive but it wouldn't be far enough to make it not worth attacking earlier.

You could also climb to Port d'Envalira like they did in 2003, very low gradient grinder, maybe stopping at one of the Grandvalira resorts - El Tarter, Soldeu or Grau-Roig - to make an Aprica-alike 5% grinder to go after the Collada de la Gallina. I'm a fan of Els Cortals, which would also be a cat.1, but that might detract from action on the prior climb, the main reasons I liked it so much were because a) it is more decisive than most MTF options in Andorra, since the trips to the country tend to be MTFs, and b) José María Jiménez won up there in the Volta a Catalunya in spectacular solo fashion.

The downside of this option is that having stages with steep climbs in Andorra is likely to appeal to and suit Sepp Kuss.
No need to worry about it.
Checked it a year ago.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
There's always Andorra. Most of the options are well known there, of course, but you can still do some less predictable things there. Now that La Gallina is fully paved and usable they could always use that and lead in to other options, especially the south side seeing as the Vuelta has typically climbed the other side via Canolich.



I mean, ideally you would go from that into the final 6km of Os de Civís but that's very unlikely as it's in Spain but only accessible from within Andorra, so I can't see it being a viable host. However, Vallnord Sector Arinsal, Pal or even just La Massana (since it hosts the MTB World Cup) would be possibilities. Vallnord ski resort controls both Arinsal and Pal as well as Arcalis so they are happy to pay up plenty, but not normally for the best options available. Arinsal has a steep enough final few kilometres to be decisive but it wouldn't be far enough to make it not worth attacking earlier.

You could also climb to Port d'Envalira like they did in 2003, very low gradient grinder, maybe stopping at one of the Grandvalira resorts - El Tarter, Soldeu or Grau-Roig - to make an Aprica-alike 5% grinder to go after the Collada de la Gallina. I'm a fan of Els Cortals, which would also be a cat.1, but that might detract from action on the prior climb, the main reasons I liked it so much were because a) it is more decisive than most MTF options in Andorra, since the trips to the country tend to be MTFs, and b) José María Jiménez won up there in the Volta a Catalunya in spectacular solo fashion.

The downside of this option is that having stages with steep climbs in Andorra is likely to appeal to and suit Sepp Kuss.
Gallina > La Rabassa is the best option for the Tour, and it seems to me a quite likely use of Gallina by ASO.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Gallina > La Rabassa is the best option for the Tour, and it seems to me a quite likely use of Gallina by ASO.
I agree, but Naturland La Rabassa is run by a separate company (Camprabassa) from either the Vallnord or Grandvalira resort groups which usually pay for hosting rights, and the fact they've only ever hosted the Vuelta makes me wonder if they would be as keen for the additional costs of the Tour.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Els Cortals indeed is a great climb, I have fond memories of the last 2 stages of La Vuelta finishing here. Especially when Mikel won after he some days before lost 30 min or so, and he was forced to work for a lesser rider in Aru that same year in Italy!
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Els Cortals indeed is a great climb, I have fond memories of the last 2 stages of La Vuelta finishing here. Especially when Mikel won after he some days before lost 30 min or so, and he was forced to work for a lesser rider in Aru that same year in Italy!
I really wish they would tarmac that gravel road they used in the 2019 Vuelta to Els Cortals, as that stepped climb would be a really good
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Sep 22, 2020
90
103
1,880
Across a lot of the threads I see people asking for those mountain stages with big climbs, followed by a smaller Cat 1 or Cat 2 finish.
Other than the Pailheres/Ax-3 combo, what other examples are possible in the Pyrenees?
Is there anyway that Cauterets could be used with the climbs in that area like the Aubisque, Soudet, Marie-Blanque? (Without having long, flat valley sections)
I made an example stage to Gavarnie Gedre, it would work well at the end of a 3 week race but I can't see attacks on a stage like this if it were included in the first several stages:
 
Needs more hard climbs before Aspen

Maybe a route that incorporates Bales and Peyresourde before Aspin and Tourmalet
Two years ago I drew a rough Tour route as a showcase of a good design for the Tour. Not the most creative route, as I tried to show what's possible with the current constraints. Overall length, number of rest days, number of climbs, maximum length of stages, start and finish locations, number of sprint stages, ITT km, etc. are all within recent parameters. The most unrealistic aspects are: the Grand Depart, the tunnel used in the stage to Rotterdam (can easily be fixed with a different stage start), the climb used in Metz (but still no more extreme than what has actually been used in recent years), and the last stage before Paris being a mountain stage in the Pyrenees (197 km, but the late start of the Paris stage should still make the transfer doable).

Rest days are on the last two mondays, after stage 8 and stage 14.

There's no distance markers on the profiles in the link (click on the image), but the hill prologue in Tulle is 2.75 km, the two other ITTs are ~41.5 km and ~47 km. The longest stage is the one to Rotterdam (249 km), the two hardest mountain stages are 210 km (Auron) and 205 km (Gavarnie). Both of the mountain blocks follow the same template: hardest MTF on day 1, hardest stage with the hardest climb being the penultimate on day 2, least selective stage most open to long distance chaos on day 3, and rest day/parade on day 4. There's as few days for the sprinters as in 2015, with as many finishes for them in the last two weeks as back then (2).

The point is to show that sequence (within stages and between stages) matter and the terrain available to the Tour is not the limitation.
The profiles are linked to by the map.
 
Reactions: houtdffan
If there has ever been a time of 100 km of individual time trial, its next year. The 3 best riders (Remco, Pogacar and Vingeaard) are perfect for exactly that, as Remco has the upper hand in the time trials, while Pogacar and especially Vingegaard has the upper hand in the mountains.
 
Reactions: SHAD0W93
Oct 25, 2020
82
80
780
There is no doubt that Remco brings huge appeal to any race.
I feel the organisers of the Tour and Giro may yet consider putting in more TT kilometres to entice Remco and also make for exciting racing with Vingegaard, Pogacar et al.

May we see a return of the 2x long time trials in a grand tour. Maybe not the 2 x 50km TT that we had in the 1990s but definitely 2 x 30/40km......
 
Reactions: Cookster15
If there has ever been a time of 100 km of individual time trial, its next year. The 3 best riders (Remco, Pogacar and Vingeaard) are perfect for exactly that, as Remco has the upper hand in the time trials, while Pogacar and especially Vingegaard has the upper hand in the mountains.
I would never expect the ASO to back it up with the mountain stages to balance that out.

The last time they did 2 long TTs it was 2012.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Why has the Belles Filles become so prominent in recent years? They pay the most money to ASO? It bloody well sucks and I don’t recall it being raced so many times in the 90’s and early/mid 2000’s. Recently it seems like a yearly stage finish.
Why this dislike of Planche des Belles Filles ? Not disagreeing, I don't have an opinion, just curious as I am surprised ?

Its a 6km @8.5% climb with a super steep finishing ramp. Does this discourage aggressive racing? If so, why?
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY