2024 European Championships in Heusden-Zolder/Hasselt (September 11-15) Discussion Thread For All Races

[RedheadDane]

Good. It was about time someone started to collect rent in this thread.

You're the threadlord around here!

 

[Samamba]

I think it's fairly ridiculous to call upon the rules 1% of the time, cite cOnTeXt the other 99% of the time and then claim there's no double standards.

If there should be a rule, it should be applied consistently, not arbitrarily by virtue of amount of outrage created. I don't think that should debatable, but apparently it is.

More like context 1% of the time and 99% of the time it's like "everyone does it". Like I said an argument like rules are rules is fine but you also don't say it every time someone is drafting cause 50 riders a race would be DSQ. Everyone knows everyone does it after bad luck, and if you make that into a rule everyone will abuse it. Most of the time the jury even gives the green light to cars and rider to do it a bit (at least early in the race).

You can't claim double standards when 2 cases aren't same, it's not that hard to understand. You known damn well there's a difference between actually having a flat/crash or changing bikes to get an advantage later on. And yes, I agree. It is not in the rules, so scream rules are rules as much as you can but it has nothing to do with double standards. Wheter the outrage made the jury punish Roglic I don't know (it happened pretty fast), but the outrage was there cause of the context, you can meme about it, that's the reason, not because Roglic drafter after having bad luck.

Anyways, it's pretty obvious we don't agree, we don't have to, but if you're going to scream double standards every time you see someone drafting in a race and he doesn't get punished, it's gonna get annoying very quickly.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Broke Groenewegens collarbone like 2 races ago

How many times have you seen a rider get a suspension of more than two weeks for such a thing? Or how many times have you called for it?

 

[E_F_]

European Championships stop being bad challenge.

 

[Brullnux]

More like context 1% of the time and 99% of the time it's like "everyone does it". Like I said an argument like rules are rules is fine but you also don't say it every time someone is drafting cause 50 riders a race would be DSQ. Everyone knows everyone does it after bad luck, and if you make that into a rule everyone will abuse it. Most of the time the jury even gives the green light to cars and rider to do it a bit (at least early in the race).

You can't claim double standards when 2 cases aren't same, it's not that hard to understand. You known damn well there's a difference between actually having a flat/crash or changing bikes to get an advantage later on. And yes, I agree. It is not in the rules, so scream rules are rules as much as you can but it has nothing to do with double standards. Wheter the outrage made the jury punish Roglic I don't know (it happened pretty fast), but the outrage was there cause of the context, you can meme about it, that's the reason, not because Roglic drafter after having bad luck.

Anyways, it's pretty obvious we don't agree, we don't have to, but if you're going to scream double standards every time you see someone drafting in a race and he doesn't get punished, it's gonna get annoying very quickly.

Yeah, Roglic/Bora designed a tactic to give them an advantage on the climb and looked to cover the tactic's downside by drafting behind a car for a really long time. They knew they were pushing what could be considered permissible, and it's not something I think I had ever seen before. I think it was an interesting decision and it had been a bit less obvious it may have worked, but you're completely right that giving leeway post crash/mechanical (which just neutralises the 'bad luck' of the mechanical or crash slightly) is very different to what Bora did.

 

[E_F_]

European Championships stop being bad challenge.

Wait. Next year should be good, right?

 

[Red Rick]

How many times have you seen a rider get a suspension of more than two weeks for such a thing? Or how many times have you called for it?

?

I've been nothing if not consistent in calling out deviations and dangerous moves by sprinters.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Wait. Next year should be good, right?

Where is it?

 

[E_F_]

Where is it?

Faun-Ardeche climbs!

 

[Didinho]

Even in is interview Philipsen is a f**king loser. Only talked about not having legs, nothing about his teammate winning, nothing about the Belgians wasting all of their leadout on him, and him still not being able to win. Team should have been 100% for Merlier.

Don’t know which interview you heard but immediately after the finish he congratulated Merlier multiple times and saying he was the fastest and deserving winner. Even when the reporter asked 3-4 questions about it to stir it up.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I almost feel bad for the italian squad. almost, but then i remember i'm belgian

 

[tobydawq]

Even in is interview Philipsen is a f**king loser. Only talked about not having legs, nothing about his teammate winning, nothing about the Belgians wasting all of their leadout on him, and him still not being able to win. Team should have been 100% for Merlier.

Uh, why?

 

[tobydawq]

Truste me, a lot of people said this. I just hope they were posting after partying big time and some couple of mojitos in their liver.

Yeah, nine wins in the last three Tours obviously points to him sucking as a sprinter.

 

[Netserk]

How many times have you seen a rider get a suspension of more than two weeks for such a thing? Or how many times have you called for it?

When was the last time a rider injured another with a move as reckless and unnecessary as that? The last one that comes to mind is Filip Maciejuk and he was banned for 30 days afterwards.

 

[Pantani_lives]

I thought Belgium would finish second and third, but they're first and fourth. Well, I had the average right.

 

[shadowrider]

I think we got the confirmation Merlier is the fastest sprinter this season. Of course he has been beaten in sprints won by Milan, Kooij and Philipsen. But mostly because he was boxed in before or during the sprint. Every sprinter gets boxed in now and then. But sprinters as Milan, Philipsen, sometimes Kooij start their sprint by jumping from the wheel of the last lead-out at the front of the peloton. With the advantage of not getting boxed in, but also starting the sprint with a lead. Merlier starts his sprint almost every time from behind. With a risk to get boxed-in and with the disadvantage to (have to) make more meters than the sprinters in front. But..... staying longer out of the wind, coming out the slipstream with a higher speed, is often the ideal formula (for Merlier) to win.
Another proof of Merliers' superiority (today) was the fact that his chain dropped at less then 350 m of the finish. He had to freewheeling a few seconds trying to get his chain on the ring. But being far enough in the pack, he didn't lose much speed. At the end it was even an advantage, coming late out of the bunch and the slipstream...

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Uh, why?

...uh...look at the results.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Don’t know which interview you heard but immediately after the finish he congratulated Merlier multiple times and saying he was the fastest and deserving winner. Even when the reporter asked 3-4 questions about it to stir it up.

I saw the interview he gave while he was still sitting on his bike in the media tent...and he barely mentioned Merlier, and never by name. He may have given another interview, but I didn't see it. Also, he just rode off after the finish. I never saw anything that suggests he came back to congratulate Merlier, based on the camera following Merlier, and Philipsen never coming back to congratulate him.

 

[tobydawq]

...uh...look at the results.

Hindsight much??

 

[shadowrider]

I saw the interview he gave while he was still sitting on his bike in the media tent...and he barely mentioned Merlier, and never by name. He may have given another interview, but I didn't see it. Also, he just rode off after the finish. I never saw anything that suggests he came back to congratulate Merlier, based on the camera following Merlier, and Philipsen never coming back to congratulate him.

Philipsen did congratulate Merlier and said he was the deserved winner. Not having seen the interview and the picture on which Philipsen congratulate Merlier is not an excuse to launch an tendentious message about Philipsen. As a real cyclingfan you should check your sources and consult other news sites, also from other countries and language areas.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Philipsen did congratulate Merlier and said he was the deserved winner. Not having seen the interview and the picture on which Philipsen congratulate Merlier is not an excuse to launch an tendentious message about Philipsen. As a real cyclingfan you should check your sources and consult other news sites, also from other countries and language areas.

Posting immediately after an interview is broadcast about the content of that interview is perfectly reasonable. That sort of research is not necessary to react to what we heard.

I saw the same interview: it was with either the official host coverage or a major international broadcaster (I didn't clock who was holding the mike)* and in the official mixed zone, and it was very much in the tone described. If he dealt with the matter differently in a later interview, then maybe he realised (or was made to realise) what a poor impression he had given of himself.

Edit: * EuroSport and l'Equipe sleeved microphones, 5:14 27 into the English language Disco+ broadcast (although timings might be different in other variants)
Edit to editnote: here on You Tube

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Philipsen did congratulate Merlier and said he was the deserved winner. Not having seen the interview and the picture on which Philipsen congratulate Merlier is not an excuse to launch an tendentious message about Philipsen. As a real cyclingfan you should check your sources and consult other news sites, also from other countries and language areas.

No

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Hindsight much??

...uh...I think "should have" should have been (speaking in hindshght) a contextual clue that I was speaking in hindsight, but lets not pretend that Merlier was some unknown newcomer, who only had an outside chance to win...because he's had a great season, when the team let him ride. So, I would suggest you go and look to see who had the most help in the finale, to see who the team wrongly backed. Philipsen got smoked. Merlier's turn of speed was magnificent, and Philipsen on his best day (meaning a day when Mathieu buries himself at 80kph, so all wonderboy has to do is slip off his wheel just before the line), wouldn't have won. Merlier was in a completely different class, and deserved to have had the enitre team work for him to the exclusion of anyone.

 

[shadowrider]

Posting immediately after an interview is broadcast about the content of that interview is perfectly reasonable. That sort of research is not necessary to react to what we heard.

I saw the same interview: it was with either the official host coverage or a major international broadcaster (I didn't clock who was holding the mike)* and in the official mixed zone, and it was very much in the tone described. If he dealt with the matter differently in a later interview, then maybe he realised (or was made to realise) what a poor impression he had given of himself.

Edit: * EuroSport and l'Equipe sleeved microphones, 5:14 27 into the English language Disco+ broadcast (although timings might be different in other variants)
Edit to editnote: here on You Tube

Philipsen was disappointed, already not being the best friend of his ex-teammate Merlier. So, not having an enthusiastic reaction the first minutes (seconds) after a defeat is perfectly normal. But even those first moments Philipsen never said the victory was not deserved. So bringing a tendentious message was totally wrong.
As a cyclingfan and/or the more as a journalist and/or a forummoderator you should know that you have to search/look for other interviews and check your sources. To avoid to deliver crap.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

As a cyclingfan and/or the more as a journalist and/or a forummoderator you should know that you have to search/look for other interviews and check your sources.

No

If a cyclist/team manager/other stake-holder gives an interview or makes a public statement, it is perfectly valid for us to comment on it here.