3 biggest astonishments and disappointments in 105th LeTour

[klintE]

In MY opinion. Tell yours.

Wonders:
1.Roglić - able to ride widely in biggest GT, incoming GT winner
2.Alafpolak - shining Tour star, hopefully not meteorite
3.Froome - I admire his mental flexibility: when he has to, he can easily be a very good domestique rider too

Disappointments:
1. Movistar - tha way they've played the game.. just not
2. Barguil - this Fortuneo move was apparently pretty dumb
3. Majka - Sierra Nevada big preparation, starting almost nowhere, all in --> washout

 

[Inquitus]

Re: 3 biggest astonishments and disappointments in 105th LeT

Wonders:
1.Roglić - A great ride already, podium looking very good, now!
2.Dumoulin - seems to have recovered from the Giro much better than Froome, despite putting in a nearly equal effort in Italy.
3.Allaphillippe - has looked great in his pursuit of the Polka Dot Jersey.
4.Sagan - Most dominant Green Jersey win to date
5.Bernal - Shown he is a true GT rider for the future, pulling on the Mountains for Thomas and Froome and then shipping very little time when riding to the line himself.

Disappointments:
1. Movistar - Terrible team ride given the focus on the tour and embarrassment of riches they brought, who did not ride the Giro
2. Barguil - this Fortuneo move was apparently pretty dumb, agreed, Allaphillippe has been much better and likely has the KOM sewn up now.
3. Majka - Sierra Nevada big preparation, starting almost nowhere, all in --> washout

 

[Escarabajo]

Wonders: Egan Bernal?

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Wonders:
1. Roglic. Although I expected him to ride a decent GC, I didn't expect him to take a podium spot. Also, he's riding pretty aggressively and not just hanging on trying to defend his place in the GC.
2. Alaphilippe. Absolute star of the Tour. Without him, it would have been even more boring than it already is. Great determination.
3. Dumoulin. I never expected him to podium having never ridden two GT's in the same year previously. He also is pretty aggressive.

Disappointments:
1. The Tour. What a complete disaster of a bore it has been. Worst Tour I can remember (although, not being able to remember much from the last two years tells me that those were probably also very boring.
2. Movistar. The three-headed monster was supposed to challenge the Sky-train, but the monster became a tame puppy instead. A team with this much history riding for the team classification is a disgrace, although one shouldn't be too surprised as that is what they usually do.
3. Demare. He shouldn't be riding GT's with his absolutely horrible restitution. And we all know why he's still in the race.

Honorably mention to Bernal in the "Wonder"-category. That kid is something special.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Wonders:
1 Geraint Thomas - While he was an obvious back up plan for Froome. I never expected him to be outright the strongest rider in the Tour. And no sign of fading at all
2 Tom Dumoulin - I hoped for a top 5 and a good consistent showing. But he's been far more aggresive than in the Giro, and clearly riding better uphill. Also no signs of fading at all, he seems positively stronger than in the Giro.
3 Primoz Roglic - I definitely expected him to be near the top or even in yellow in the first two weeks. But his recup looked a bit shady to me (for example last stage Vasco). But here it's nothing like that. He's been consistently strong and looks stronger now than in the Alpes. Amazing.

Disappointements
1 The excitement - Sky is still far too strong, even with 8 or 7. This kills a lot of tactical possibilities against Thomas. Which in turn makes the race boring. You cannot really blame the riders..
2 Romain Bardet - Aside from the cobbles and the TTT, this course looked pretty much perfect for him. But he lost most on his own terrain, the climbs. He's never going to challenge for the win again.
3 Nairo Quintana - Yes he just won a mountain stage by being the strongest. But he doesn't seem to be able to be top the whole 3 weeks. We need this Nairo from day 1 in the mountains until the last. Not when the ship has sunk already.

 

[Koronin]

Wonders:
Roglic - didn't know what to expect from him and he has a shot at the podium
Dumoulin - thought he suffer more from the Giro
Alaphilippe - He decided to go after the KOM and he's done exactly that. Plus been entertaining in doing so.

Disappointments:
Tour - another boring tour bar the cobbled stage.
Movistar - not sure any explanation is needed
Tour design/time limit - most of the sprinters are gone due to time cuts on the mountain stages.

 

[Big Doopie]

Wonders:
Dumoulin
Alaphilippe
Sagan
Martin
Bernal

Disappointments:
LUDICROUS amount of ITT kms
Porte crashing out
Adam Yates underperfoming

 

[Valv.Piti]

Sky is pretty much killing the Tour. It aint funny, they simply have too many insanely good domestiques. So thats a pretty big disappointment for me and has been the last three years (2016-2018)

I also dont like the route particularly much. They basically wasted two mountain stages, one of which had a very good design, the other pretty meh, but still. Dont start the the mountains with downhill, place the MTF first, then the downhill day.

Thomas is a weak winner I think, at least to me. I dont like his character and he has not done much apart from accelerating the last kilometer. He has been blessed with his team basically killing the race riding tempo.

Movistar has disappointed me, the only legitimate threat. Landa and Quintana have been disappointing, Valverde as well. But people are forgetting Orica and the joke of a team they selected. First of all Adam Yates is constantly sitting at the back, he is not super consistent, very passive etc. etc. Why in gods name are you putting all the eggs in that guys basket? The argument that he is similar to his brother is lame. Should OBVIOUSLY have selected Ewan.

On a more positive note, I liked what I have seen from Rogla. I like him, what a nice rider. Bernal is obviously great, but thats not a suprise to me at all to see himk this good this early. Alapihlippe has been ligthting up the race. But not too many nice surprises and such, it has overall been pretty underwhelming. I hope for a great stage to Laruns to save the race

 

[Valv.Piti]

And please just kick that god awful individual that is Arnaud Démare out of the race.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

A thirty something cobbled classics rider with no good GT finishes looking all but guaranteed to win the Tour de France is so astonishing that nothing else registers as even mildly surprising beside it.

The only remotely comparable events for many years were the time two random nobodies fought out a Vuelta between them and the time a lost masters racer wandered into the Vuelta and won it. And neither of those freak events were ultimately as bizarre.

 

[Escarabajo]

Good summary Valv.Piti. I mostly agree with everything except the route comment.

I'd say that there was truly one worthless mountain stage. We could see that from when they presented the route. The other ones were Ok. Route is OK. It depends on the riders really to make the race.

 

[del1962]

Re:

A thirty something cobbled classics rider with no good GT finishes looking all but guaranteed to win the Tour de France is so astonishing that nothing else registers as even mildly surprising beside it.

Your like a broken record

 

[hayneplane]

Wonders:
1. Bernal - We all knew he was going to be special but to look the strongest climber in the race today as youngest man was incredible.
2. Sagan - Cruising the Green Jersey is just what he does but to win bunch sprints and climb so well as he was today where he looked easy even when it was down to about 30 riders was otherworldly.
3. Roglic - I felt he was capable of a podium but to be within touching distance of it now is still an exceptional effort and it's great that he is still reaching out and attacking rather than trying to cling on to his position.

Disappointments:
1. Bardet/Landa - Much hyped and fading hard in the Pyrenees.
2. Nibali/Porte - Not really their fault but sad for the race that they did not get to feature in the big mountains fully due to crashes.
3. Demare/ Biased application of the rules - A grotesque distortion of fair play. Are we seriously expected to swallow as kosher that a man dropped after 400 metres of today's stage can ride solo and drop only 9 minutes on a HC 16km climb to Quintana and stay in the time limit. With Sagan banged up he could win tomorrow and that would devalue the race.

Honourable dispatches mention to Lawson Craddock for making it through after his day 1 crash and Phil Gil for a 60km ride with a fractured kneecap yet still finishing inside the time limit.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

A thirty something cobbled classics rider with no good GT finishes looking all but guaranteed to win the Tour de France is so astonishing that nothing else registers as even mildly surprising beside it.

Your like a broken record

Get used to it. It’s a discussion that will follow him around for the rest of his career.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Wonders:
1. Bernal - We all knew he was going to be special but to look the strongest climber in the race today as youngest man was incredible.
2. Sagan - Cruising the Green Jersey is just what he does but to win bunch sprints and climb so well as he was today where he looked easy even when it was down to about 30 riders was otherworldly.
3. Roglic - I felt he was capable of a podium but to be within touching distance of it now is still an exceptional effort and it's great that he is still reaching out and attacking rather than trying to cling on to his position.

Disappointments:
1. Bardet/Landa - Much hyped and fading hard in the Pyrenees.
2. Nibali/Porte - Not really their fault but sad for the race that they did not get to feature in the big mountains fully due to crashes.
3. Demare/ Biased application of the rules - A grotesque distortion of fair play. Are we seriously expected to swallow as kosher that a man dropped after 400 metres of today's stage can ride solo and drop only 9 minutes on a HC 16km climb to Quintana and stay in the time limit. With Sagan banged up he could win tomorrow and that would devalue the race.

Honourable dispatches mention to Lawson Craddock for making it through after his day 1 crash and Phil Gil for a 60km ride with a fractured kneecap yet still finishing inside the time limit.

Good points on giving them honorable mentions. They deserve it.

One note on Landa, the crash on stage 9 injured his back. Disappointing yes, but with an asterisk.

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

A thirty something cobbled classics rider with no good GT finishes looking all but guaranteed to win the Tour de France is so astonishing that nothing else registers as even mildly surprising beside it.

Your like a broken record

Get used to it. It’s a discussion that will follow him around for the rest of his career.

this is tedious, if you want to make insinuations you know where to do it

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

A thirty something cobbled classics rider with no good GT finishes looking all but guaranteed to win the Tour de France is so astonishing that nothing else registers as even mildly surprising beside it.

Your like a broken record

Get used to it. It’s a discussion that will follow him around for the rest of his career.

this is tedious, if you want to make insinuations you know where to do it

What insinuation is involved in saying that it is extremely surprising that a thirty something year old cobbled classics specialist is about to win the Tour after a long career in which he never previously managed a GT top 10? Is that not, on the face of it, a very unusual thing to happen? Has it ever happened before in over a century of racing?

This is a thread about surprises in the Tour. To anyone with any historical perspective that’s the towering surprise of the Tour.

 

[rlntlssly]

Re:

A thirty something cobbled classics rider with no good GT finishes looking all but guaranteed to win the Tour de France is so astonishing that nothing else registers as even mildly surprising beside it.

Maybe we've all got it wrong. Maybe it isn't that Thomas is a classics rider who miraculously to GT riding, but a genuinely talented GC rider who foolishly wasted several years riding the cobbled classics.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

A thirty something cobbled classics rider with no good GT finishes looking all but guaranteed to win the Tour de France is so astonishing that nothing else registers as even mildly surprising beside it.

Maybe we've all got it wrong. Maybe it isn't that Thomas is a classics rider who miraculously to GT riding, but a genuinely talented GC rider who foolishly wasted several years riding the cobbled classics.

That would be even surprising. It would mean that Sky, instead of being brilliant at spotting hidden talent, are the stupidest team in the peloton. It would also mean that twelve times in a row, Thomas would have to have ridden a GT without accidentally revealing to himself or the world that he had a talent for it.

 

[Red Rick]

Wonders

- Bernal
- Alaphilippe
- Dumoulin

Disappointments

- The Tour

 

[Amazinmets87]

Re:

A thirty something cobbled classics rider with no good GT finishes looking all but guaranteed to win the Tour de France is so astonishing that nothing else registers as even mildly surprising beside it.

The only remotely comparable events for many years were the time two random nobodies fought out a Vuelta between them and the time a lost masters racer wandered into the Vuelta and won it. And neither of those freak events were ultimately as bizarre.

Yea, it's almost like 32 is peak age for mens aerobic fitness. This isn't 100m sprinting; a 22 year old performing on this level would be far more atypical.

 

[armchairclimber]

Re: Re:

A thirty something cobbled classics rider with no good GT finishes looking all but guaranteed to win the Tour de France is so astonishing that nothing else registers as even mildly surprising beside it.

Your like a broken record

Get used to it. It’s a discussion that will follow him around for the rest of his career.

Yet you are the only one who has brought it up .... again.

Personally I'm both astonished and disappointed by Bardet's performance. I don't blame him... it's just not there this year. Not surprised or astonished by Thomas at all ... it has been on the cards for years. I'm not that chuffed though ... I don't like SKY.

Alaphilippe is a star ... loving it, but not astonished, as I could see that coming too (ditto Roga). Disappointed in Movistar. Though Valverde has injected some entertainment.

 

[hayneplane]

Re: Re:

Wonders:
1. Bernal - We all knew he was going to be special but to look the strongest climber in the race today as youngest man was incredible.
2. Sagan - Cruising the Green Jersey is just what he does but to win bunch sprints and climb so well as he was today where he looked easy even when it was down to about 30 riders was otherworldly.
3. Roglic - I felt he was capable of a podium but to be within touching distance of it now is still an exceptional effort and it's great that he is still reaching out and attacking rather than trying to cling on to his position.

Disappointments:
1. Bardet/Landa - Much hyped and fading hard in the Pyrenees.
2. Nibali/Porte - Not really their fault but sad for the race that they did not get to feature in the big mountains fully due to crashes.
3. Demare/ Biased application of the rules - A grotesque distortion of fair play. Are we seriously expected to swallow as kosher that a man dropped after 400 metres of today's stage can ride solo and drop only 9 minutes on a HC 16km climb to Quintana and stay in the time limit. With Sagan banged up he could win tomorrow and that would devalue the race.

Honourable dispatches mention to Lawson Craddock for making it through after his day 1 crash and Phil Gil for a 60km ride with a fractured kneecap yet still finishing inside the time limit.

Good points on giving them honorable mentions. They deserve it.

One note on Landa, the crash on stage 9 injured his back. Disappointing yes, but with an asterisk.

Yes, noted, probably a little bit harsh of me to bracket him equally with Bardet.

Circumstantially disappointing because he lost time in the first 9 days on the flat with mechanicals and caught up with crashes but with the climbing legs he has displayed it would have been fascinating to see how Alaphillippe would have fared in the GC battle.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

A thirty something cobbled classics rider with no good GT finishes looking all but guaranteed to win the Tour de France is so astonishing that nothing else registers as even mildly surprising beside it.

The only remotely comparable events for many years were the time two random nobodies fought out a Vuelta between them and the time a lost masters racer wandered into the Vuelta and won it. And neither of those freak events were ultimately as bizarre.

Yea, it's almost like 32 is peak age for mens aerobic fitness. This isn't 100m sprinting; a 22 year old performing on this level would be far more atypical.

So you will be able to point to the long succession of previous Tour winners who never troubled the top 10 of a GT until their thirties despite competing in a dozen of them. If it’s so normal it must have happened many times before in the last 115 years of GT racing, right?

Now name one example.

 

[Walkman]

Re:

And please just kick that god awful individual that is Arnaud Démare out of the race.

What is the thing with Démare? I haven't really been paying attention.