3 biggest astonishments and disappointments in 105th LeTour

[rlntlssly]

Re: Re:

I think the way in which Thomas was able to sprint at the end of every mountain stage, suggests he had a lot left in the tank. Imo he'd have won easily with or without Bernal - even if he only followed wheels, he hasn't looked in any trouble all Tour.

Probably the most convincing and controlled GT win since Nibali in 2014. The only doubts were whether or not his team-mate would pull rank.

I think Froome at the 2016 Tour was every bit as convincing and controlled, and definitely more dominant.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I think the way in which Thomas was able to sprint at the end of every mountain stage, suggests he had a lot left in the tank. Imo he'd have won easily with or without Bernal - even if he only followed wheels, he hasn't looked in any trouble all Tour.

Probably the most convincing and controlled GT win since Nibali in 2014. The only doubts were whether or not his team-mate would pull rank.

I think Froome at the 2016 Tour was every bit as convincing and controlled, and definitely more dominant.

Perhaps in some ways - certainly time gap Froome's was as dominant - but I think Thomas has been a lot more impressive in the mountains. He fairly comfortably won the two hardest Alpine stages, and would have won the hardest Pyrenees one if Roglic hadn't got clear on the descent. And he did it without ever looking like he was out of second gear. He was able to close down any attacks at will. Nibali in 2014 was the last time I recall someone looking so much fresher and stronger than the other contenders in the hardest stages.

I expect he could win the TT today as well if he needed to, but probably with the lead he has he won't be taking too many risks.

 

[rzombie1988]

This Tour wasn't interesting to me at all. Only 2 MTF's and I don't believe anyone on that field is better than Froome at full strength and without him supporting teammates. I felt the stages I did watch were a waste of time.

I haven't watched much the last few years and I don't see that changing due to the race times conflicting with my schedule.

 

[guncha]

Re: 3 biggest astonishments and disappointments in 105th LeT

Astonishments:1.G.Thomas-never expected he could win tdf.2.Roglic.3.Froome and Dumoulin ahead of rivals who peaked specifically for tdf. Disappointments:1.horribble Grand Bornard stage.2.weakly designed Pyrenees.3.poor performance of Quintana.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

The following are surprises to me, not "mildly unexpected occurrences,": I don't put GThomas in this category as I think you'd have to be willfully ignorant not to see that he had a chance. Anyone who wins the Dauphine is clearly on form for the tour, and then put him behind the Sky train...so it would have been more unexpected if he'd washed out, frankly.

Wonders:
--Roglic: Did not know he was that good.
--Dumoulin: I thought he'd stage hunt after the Giro.
--Sky domestiques: I don't know why but this is the year I thought they'd be mortal. Instead, better than ever. Kwiat should be winning every one-day race he enters, and why is Castroviejo not a star in his own right? Bernal...absolutely nuclear in the mountains.
--Alaphilippe: What determination and spirit! I knew he was quality but the way he has ridden has been masterful.
--The cobbled stage, aka "mini Roubaix" : It was even more brutal than I thought it would be. I think it destroyed Bardet and Landa's tours, frankly.

Disappointments:
--Bardet and Landa (see above)
--Adam Yates: What happened?
--Sprinters getting dropped. Something needs to be done to prevent this.
--Stages 10/16, in terms of GC action. Blah. In fact the mountain stages have been OK so far, I'd say 12 and 17 gave us good action, while 11 was kind of a wash. Still don't get the rationale of finishing a mountain stage with a descent.

Yes. They will. They will increase a time limit. :lol:

Interesting one this because many of the sprinters have made it to Paris in the past and I remember Cavendish improving his climbing for a couple of years to do just that. Couldn't say the same for Cippolini mind!

I will probably get shot down in flames for saying this but perhaps some of the sprinters should do just a little more prep for the mountains in the same way as the GC guys clearly did for the Roubaix stage.

The whole % of 1st riders time should be revised to a fixed time or after the fixed time so long as they finish in a group.

Yes you could. The only reason Cipo never finished the Tour is because he didn’t want to. He never had any problems at all with finishing the Giro.

Tour stage wins were just a bonus for Cipollini, he’d almost always filled his boots at the Giro already.

 

[Fergoose]

Pros:
- Dan Martin. Actually willing to gamble and try lower percentage moves. Kept dignity when things went wrong.
- All smiles. What a friendly and gracious trio on the podium. Who says good guys can't win?
- The police. During a slightly dull edition of the TDF the police were on hand with their comical bungling to create some light relief.


Cons:
- top four on GC all ITT specialists leading to stale racing. No real challenge emerged from non-ITT specialists due to poor form (Movistar, Mitchell) or bad luck (AG2R, Bahrain, BMC, UAE)
- lack of salary cap meaning Sky were head and shoulders the strongest team, creating an uneven playing field even though the TTT was not as decisive as feared.
- lack of contest for green jersey and KotM. Whatever Allaphillipe is, he isn't a mountain goat. A step back from previous years when the KotM was won by one of the top climbers in the race.

 

[Avoriaz]

Pros:
1. Dan Martin for his doomed attacking, and his nodding donkey style
2. Lotto NL Jumbo for trying to make a race. Okay some of their tactics were baffling - Kruijswijk leading Froome - but Roglic has been superb
3. Egan Bernal - genuinely excited to see how he develops

Cons:
1. The lack of competition in any of the classifications (bar the team prize, but this is face saving rather than genuine urge to win). I'd like to have seen Sky have Bernal allowed to challenge LaTour. Yellow is reasonably close yet GT has shown complete control
2. The sprinters all yielding to the course fairly meekly
3. The Mountains. Always stunning vistas but there were too many descents and flat run ins or long valleys between the climbs. No real queen stage

 

[HelloDolly]

Cons
1. The biggest issue for me is the comparative strength and dominance of team SKY.
On paper Movistar with Quintana, Landa, Valverde, Soler, Amador, etc should have been as strong if not stronger . But every year we see SKY get all their ducks in a row (quite literally) and kill the Tour . They are akin to the Roman armies, well drilled and well organised fighting the tribes of Saxony (who were fierce warriors individually) but could not get their act together to compete against the might of Rome...This is modern pro cycling ...No one can take it to SKY ..They have won every Tour bar one ( and that was most probably because Froome crashed out ) since 2012. That is some record in anyone's book. But the most astonishing thing is they have done it with 3 different riders . 3 different winners in 7 tours. I am not suggesting nefarious goings on just how better prepared,organised,managed, drilled and focused they must be in comparison to the others. Unfortunately for the bystander it kills the excitement of the Tour ...the unknown... This continues to be a major disappointment ...And how disheartening it must be for some of the other riders... SKY have drummed home how cycling is a team sport yet we the viewer want to see man o man ...NO wonder cycling is so mixed up

2. The Tour route I found was disappointing this year ... I think the cobbles stage killed the chances of too many GC riders and the 3 in a row in the Alps did for too many sprinters... I would also have preferred more mountain top finishes. I don't think a route has to be extraordinarily hard to produce good racing. I would have liked more hard rolling stages. I liked the Alps stage but not so much the short pit stop stage. I think its not only the stages but where and when they occur that is important

3. Nibali's (especially) and Porte's crash were disappointing for the race as they may have contributed more to the result

As for personal performances many were tinged by the cobbles stage including , Landa, Mollema , Majka , Yates (and Porte). But as in all competitions there are winners and losers

Good
Bernal...what a find but that is SKY wining the Tour for the next 10 years ...more of the same
Roglic : I had thought he would do well...super strong and great all rounder ...probably will be Bernal's biggest rival
Dumoulin :Great performance after such a hard Giro ... Has A Tour win in him if he had a stronger team and was fresh
SK : Good performance but not enough long climbs in the 3rd week to test others endurance
Degenkolb : Great come back and great win on the cobbles stage
Allaphillipe : Tremendous racing,descending and winning
GVA efended the yellow jersey so well

Poor
Kittle : What was he up to ...He was so off the pace

Cavandish : Cant see him beating the best now at the Tour ..same for Greipel

Kristoff : Emmm? ...need to get his wining ways back

Landa : Moaning away as per usual and talking about jumping ship again . The hype on this forum for this rider annoys me...He is no Tour winner
And his climbing is akin to many riders in the race and worse than a few

Majka: Again so much hype on here over the years ..He is not Tour podium material..not sure he is GC material

Barguil : Too heavy and not able to take on Allaphillipe. Took the money but did not deliver ...needs to put his ego back in the box

Orica Scott : Yates was ill which can happen to anyone but OS had no back plan. Again they are not delivering at the Tour. when you consider their roster

Porte : Not his fault he crashed (well ?) but major disappointment for Tour and BMC ...no wonder his bags were sent tout de suite to Annecy ...BMC paid millions for a rider who got to stage 9 only (twice)

Quintana : Cannot seem to get any form together at the right time...Can climb at altitude but that seems to be it

Zakarin : Seems to be all over the place at times ...Katusha had a dismal Tour and he was one of the reasons

 

[Escarabajo]

HelloDolly, I agree with you on the route criticism.

On paper I thought this was a great route. A good balance and not back loaded. However in reality if I am going to weight on the spectacle that the cobbles bring to the fans and television versus all GT contenders wasting hours and days preparing for it and still some of them being eliminated from it (even if not on the cobbles, but that is a technicality because the pressure still got to them) then that should go. It is enough that they have to prepare for TTT and TT and now cobbles. That was a disappointment.

 

[RedheadDane]

Kristoff : Emmm? ...need to get his wining ways back

He did.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

astonishments:
- Alaphilippe: although I don't like the guy particularly, I have to admit, that he was the most visible active rider in this tour ... he did what Sagan used to do a few years back, and not on the rather insignificant (from a GC point of view) hilly transition stages, but on the eminent alpine and pyrenees stages - and he even won a couple of them ... so I have to bow down to such a feat ...
- Dumoulin: for being stronger than Froome in the 'contest' of the Giro-Tour riders
- Bernal: revealed himself as the coming top contender in GTs (ToC in my view doesn't count as a test for GT abilities) ... if he doesn't go Betancur, it's hard to see him not being the first Colombian winning the Tour in two or three years ...


disappointments:
- fight for the GC win rather being a team game than an individual man vs man ... we all know cycling in reality being a team sport, but we all dream of an individual showdown (like e.g. Tennis or Boxing) - reality prevails, Geraint Thomas is not the strongest amongs him, Dumoulin and Roglic, but the one with the by far best team ....
- Movistar: the only team which has a roster to potentially being a match to Sky, doesn't seem to have any kind of strategy which would work ... their technical staff seem's to be below par, certainly not a match to the potential of their riders (and this has been going on for a few years now, at least in the Tour ...) ... if they want to concentrate on the Vuelta, fine, but then just go stage hunting in the Tour and do it properly ...
- Sagan missing his chance to finally win the Champs-Elysees sprint ... (N.B. still hope I'm wrong on this one, then it would be part of the astonishments, but I doubt it)

With the exception of the TTT, Thomas had to follow the same wheels that Dumo and Rog had to.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

starring peter sagan
co starring ala
ably supported by sunshine

oops no team having bottle to deraul the sky train
oops peter sagan crashing and not beung able to compete 2 stages
oops phil gil and other riders crashing and being forced to withdraw
Mark L

I have a strange feeling regarding Sagan and this year TDF. Yes, he equaled his stage win maximum and probably could add two more, but to tell the truth, I do not even remember already his wins here, while I do remember all his previous wins and the most of his second places.
The only memorable performance of him in this Tour was Mende stage, where he went pretty deep.
Alla was a much better star this year than him.
Sagan was strong this summer but he did not show it in the stage where it mattered the most. In cobbles. it was ridden very defensively, I would not mind him losing that stage after animating it. But not riding in the front and letting GVA go was painful to watch for me.

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

....

I have a strange feeling regarding Sagan and this year TDF. Yes, he equaled his stage win maximum and probably could add two more, but to tell the truth, I do not even remember already his wins here, while I do remember all his previous wins and the most of his second places.
The only memorable performance of him in this Tour was Mende stage, where he went pretty deep.
Alla was a much better star this year than him.
Sagan was strong this summer but he did not show it in the stage where it mattered the most. In cobbles. it was ridden very defensively, I would not mind him losing that stage after animating it. But not riding in the front and letting GVA go was painful to watch for me.

I have similar feelings .... Peter himself puts the Tourmalet stage as his biggest achievement in this year's Tour, which was pure will power from his side .... I suppose Peter is getting mature, which will perhaps result in more unspectacular wins but less buffonerie ... I also suppose his crash has learned him a lesson the tough way: cycling is a very dangerous sport even for those few who can handle their bike like Sagan .... maybe he'll get stronger out of this and his palmarès will grow to match the talent of a century he is ...

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Astonishments:
1. Sagan riding into an obvious stream of piss.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

....

I have a strange feeling regarding Sagan and this year TDF. Yes, he equaled his stage win maximum and probably could add two more, but to tell the truth, I do not even remember already his wins here, while I do remember all his previous wins and the most of his second places.
The only memorable performance of him in this Tour was Mende stage, where he went pretty deep.
Alla was a much better star this year than him.
Sagan was strong this summer but he did not show it in the stage where it mattered the most. In cobbles. it was ridden very defensively, I would not mind him losing that stage after animating it. But not riding in the front and letting GVA go was painful to watch for me.

I have similar feelings .... Peter himself puts the Tourmalet stage as his biggest achievement in this year's Tour, which was pure will power from his side .... I suppose Peter is getting mature, which will perhaps result in more unspectacular wins but less buffonerie ... I also suppose his crash has learned him a lesson the tough way: cycling is a very dangerous sport even for those few who can handle their bike like Sagan .... maybe he'll get stronger out of this and his palmarès will grow to match the talent of a century he is ...

He didn't really have to go on long raids in the mountains to pick up points. But yeah, Mende was an incredible performance nonetheless. Was he two seconds slower than Alaphilippe until he sat up on the final stretch? On a 3 km, 10% climb. I think he surprised himself as well there (which he indeed did say). His performance until his crash on stage 17 was also very impressive, sitting with the best 20-25 in the real mountains.

The TTT was a definite low point as was the Roubaix stage where he was out of position on one pavé. Unfortunately, that was when the final break went.

He should be fun watching in the Vuelta, though. He could end up winning quite a number of stages maybe as reigning World, Slovakian and European champion.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Wait, will he both ride EC and the Vuelta? I guess the EC makes sense as its a pretty nice route for him and the Vuelta as well since he would want to prepare for the WCs. I don't believe in him at all in that race, but I gotta admit that he climbed pretty amazing on a few stages this Tour. But a one day race is different, raced hard and with so much elavation gain, I just don't know.

But good thing he will be at La Vuelta, the sprint fields have been so piss poor recently.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Wait, will he both ride EC and the Vuelta? I guess the EC makes sense as its a pretty nice route for him and the Vuelta as well since he would want to prepare for the WCs. I don't believe in him at all in that race, but I gotta admit that he climbed pretty amazing on a few stages this Tour. But a one day race is different, raced hard and with so much elavation gain, I just don't know.

But good thing he will be at La Vuelta, the sprint fields have been so piss poor recently.

Yes, both are on his schedule. Let's hope he recovers quickly from his injury in order to also make it at both.

And yes, I also think he needs the climbing of the Vuelta to stand the minorest of chances in Innsbruck.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Astonishments:
-Alaphillipe
-Guillaume Van Keirsbulkc (because he finished)
-Dan Martin

Dissapointments
-Thimothy Dupont
-Warren Barguil
-Thomas De Gendt

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Astonishments:
1. Sagan riding into an obvious stream of piss.

:lol:

 

[del1962]

Lol that made me laugh

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

astonishments:
- Alaphilippe: although I don't like the guy particularly, I have to admit, that he was the most visible active rider in this tour ... he did what Sagan used to do a few years back, and not on the rather insignificant (from a GC point of view) hilly transition stages, but on the eminent alpine and pyrenees stages - and he even won a couple of them ... so I have to bow down to such a feat ...
- Dumoulin: for being stronger than Froome in the 'contest' of the Giro-Tour riders
- Bernal: revealed himself as the coming top contender in GTs (ToC in my view doesn't count as a test for GT abilities) ... if he doesn't go Betancur, it's hard to see him not being the first Colombian winning the Tour in two or three years ...


disappointments:
- fight for the GC win rather being a team game than an individual man vs man ... we all know cycling in reality being a team sport, but we all dream of an individual showdown (like e.g. Tennis or Boxing) - reality prevails, Geraint Thomas is not the strongest amongs him, Dumoulin and Roglic, but the one with the by far best team ....
- Movistar: the only team which has a roster to potentially being a match to Sky, doesn't seem to have any kind of strategy which would work ... their technical staff seem's to be below par, certainly not a match to the potential of their riders (and this has been going on for a few years now, at least in the Tour ...) ... if they want to concentrate on the Vuelta, fine, but then just go stage hunting in the Tour and do it properly ...
- Sagan missing his chance to finally win the Champs-Elysees sprint ... (N.B. still hope I'm wrong on this one, then it would be part of the astonishments, but I doubt it)

With the exception of the TTT, Thomas had to follow the same wheels that Dumo and Rog had to.

Thomas had his domestiques to shut down any threatening attacks. Dumo and Rog couldn't really say the same. If someone of importance went up the road, if Sky didn't reel them in, Dumo and Rog had to weigh the pros and cons of responding or not.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Astonishments:
1. Sagan riding into an obvious stream of piss.

:lol:

Lucky it wasn't Moscon...........

 

[IndianCyclist]

Astonishments: -Alaphillipe-Bernal-Roglic
Dissapointments-Quintana-Landa-Kittel

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Astonishments: -Alaphillipe-Bernal-Roglic
Dissapointments-Quintana-Landa-Kittel

Don't know what is going on with Kittel. He looked like being the next sprinter to dominate. Quintana is no closer to winning a Tour than he was a few years ago. The Vuelta is probably his best chance to win another GT.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

Astonishments: -Alaphillipe-Bernal-Roglic
Dissapointments-Quintana-Landa-Kittel

Don't know what is going on with Kittel. He looked like being the next sprinter to dominate. Quintana is no closer to winning a Tour than he was a few years ago. The Vuelta is probably his best chance to win another GT.

He did, for a couple of years (with some down-time in between), no he doesn't anymore.