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A Hypothetical: Lemond's 1989 Final Tour TT

He averaged ~54.5kph on his heavy a$$ Bottecchia with his chopped off, lycra covered helmet and skin suit of the day. Let's say he did the same TT with the best bike, wheels, skin suit, shoes, and helmet available today. How much faster would he have gone?

The more scientific and objective your answer, the better.

All I know is that I started racing in 1985, and even though I don't race anymore, I still ride. My bikes now are seriously amazing compared to my old, 1984 Team Fuji (though I still love that bike).
 
Choocher said:
He averaged ~54.5kph on his heavy a$$ Bottecchia with his chopped off, lycra covered helmet and skin suit of the day. Let's say he did the same TT with the best bike, wheels, skin suit, shoes, and helmet available today. How much faster would he have gone?

The more scientific and objective your answer, the better.

All I know is that I started racing in 1985, and even though I don't race anymore, I still ride. My bikes now are seriously amazing compared to my old, 1984 Team Fuji (though I still love that bike).

Global Cycling Network asked a similar (non-Lemond) related question by comparing bikes from different eras on similar terrains.
I'm far from a scientist, but even my non-scientific mind saw flaws in their conclusion that modern-day bikes are far better than those in the past. I'd refer you to the vid, but I just came across your message and am posting in haste. The video is easy to find.
I could be wrong, and at risk of getting suspended, but I don't know if the question could be answered without taking PED use into consideration.
 
the delgados said:
Choocher said:
He averaged ~54.5kph on his heavy a$$ Bottecchia with his chopped off, lycra covered helmet and skin suit of the day. Let's say he did the same TT with the best bike, wheels, skin suit, shoes, and helmet available today. How much faster would he have gone?

The more scientific and objective your answer, the better.

All I know is that I started racing in 1985, and even though I don't race anymore, I still ride. My bikes now are seriously amazing compared to my old, 1984 Team Fuji (though I still love that bike).

Global Cycling Network asked a similar (non-Lemond) related question by comparing bikes from different eras on similar terrains.
I'm far from a scientist, but even my non-scientific mind saw flaws in their conclusion that modern-day bikes are far better than those in the past. I'd refer you to the vid, but I just came across your message and am posting in haste. The video is easy to find.
I could be wrong, and at risk of getting suspended, but I don't know if the question could be answered without taking PED use into consideration.

Thanks, much appreciated--I'll look into that GCN video.

As for the PED issue you raised, I purposely didn't post this in The Clinic because I wanted to get a scientific take from people with more knowledge of aerodynamics and material differences between the tools of the trade now compared to then. The way my question was framed, PED use is immaterial.

Same rider, same conditions, except the bike, helmet, shoes, and skin suit etc. are modern.
 
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For me as a young kid. Growing up listening to LeTour results on the radio. Or trying to catch what little was broadcast on ABC Wide World of Sports. Here in the USA. Lemond was my hero.

He was also a highly sought after cycling prodigy. As a junior. Greg was a guy who married young. And lived like a monk when training. He was very tech driven in all his equipment,training, & diet.

Could he have went faster on say a Bolide with a Kask Helmet & Shoe covers. I'm sure he could have. But we will never know. What killed Fignon I believe was his non use of what at the time was cutting edge tech bike & gear.
 
Just out of curiosity: why do journalists and some fans who know better insist on misspelling Greg LeMond's name? He has spelled it "LeMond" since at least 1978. You can examine his signature, his name spelled in legal documents and his bikes and you will see his preferred spelling. One of the things I find fascinating is that if Greg announced tomorrow that he wished to be called "Roberta" and wished to be addressed as "she," most all of these folks, right-thinking blokes they are, would oblige. But spell his surname as he has asked for 35+ years? No sir. There's a principle involved here.
 
Re:

chiocciolis_calves said:
Just out of curiosity: why do journalists and some fans who know better insist on misspelling Greg LeMond's name? He has spelled it "LeMond" since at least 1978. You can examine his signature, his name spelled in legal documents and his bikes and you will see his preferred spelling. One of the things I find fascinating is that if Greg announced tomorrow that he wished to be called "Roberta" and wished to be addressed as "she," most all of these folks, right-thinking blokes they are, would oblige. But spell his surname as he has asked for 35+ years? No sir. There's a principle involved here.

To be more exact, it's not misspelled--it's misscapitalized (as long as there's a principle involved here). Thanks for staying on point, chiocciolis_calves.
 
Re: Re:

Choocher said:
chiocciolis_calves said:
Just out of curiosity: why do journalists and some fans who know better insist on misspelling Greg LeMond's name? He has spelled it "LeMond" since at least 1978. You can examine his signature, his name spelled in legal documents and his bikes and you will see his preferred spelling. One of the things I find fascinating is that if Greg announced tomorrow that he wished to be called "Roberta" and wished to be addressed as "she," most all of these folks, right-thinking blokes they are, would oblige. But spell his surname as he has asked for 35+ years? No sir. There's a principle involved here.

To be more exact, it's not misspelled--it's misscapitalized (as long as there's a principle involved here). Thanks for staying on point, chiocciolis_calves.

Thanks for the clarification and a thousand apologies for deviating from the riveting original post.

Now, would anyone care to explain why they deliberately "miscapitalize" his name?
 
Re: Re:

chiocciolis_calves said:
Choocher said:
chiocciolis_calves said:
Just out of curiosity: why do journalists and some fans who know better insist on misspelling Greg LeMond's name? He has spelled it "LeMond" since at least 1978. You can examine his signature, his name spelled in legal documents and his bikes and you will see his preferred spelling. One of the things I find fascinating is that if Greg announced tomorrow that he wished to be called "Roberta" and wished to be addressed as "she," most all of these folks, right-thinking blokes they are, would oblige. But spell his surname as he has asked for 35+ years? No sir. There's a principle involved here.

To be more exact, it's not misspelled--it's misscapitalized (as long as there's a principle involved here). Thanks for staying on point, chiocciolis_calves.

Thanks for the clarification and a thousand apologies for deviating from the riveting original post.

Now, would anyone care to explain why they deliberately "miscapitalize" his name?
That's a big leap.

Anyway, back to the original question, if there is such a big difference between the best kit and the average kit now, that sky prefer to have their riders in their own, rather than the available yellow jersey kit. Then there must be a hell of a lot of difference between what is available now and what was available 30 years ago.
 
Re: Re:

chiocciolis_calves said:
Choocher said:
chiocciolis_calves said:
Just out of curiosity: why do journalists and some fans who know better insist on misspelling Greg LeMond's name? He has spelled it "LeMond" since at least 1978. You can examine his signature, his name spelled in legal documents and his bikes and you will see his preferred spelling. One of the things I find fascinating is that if Greg announced tomorrow that he wished to be called "Roberta" and wished to be addressed as "she," most all of these folks, right-thinking blokes they are, would oblige. But spell his surname as he has asked for 35+ years? No sir. There's a principle involved here.

To be more exact, it's not misspelled--it's misscapitalized (as long as there's a principle involved here). Thanks for staying on point, chiocciolis_calves.

Thanks for the clarification and a thousand apologies for deviating from the riveting original post.

Now, would anyone care to explain why they deliberately "miscapitalize" his name?


Participation in this thread is not mandatory. Please feel free to remove yourself from this thread and start another one related to your intended topic.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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Re: Re:

chiocciolis_calves said:
Choocher said:
chiocciolis_calves said:
Just out of curiosity: why do journalists and some fans who know better insist on misspelling Greg LeMond's name? He has spelled it "LeMond" since at least 1978. You can examine his signature, his name spelled in legal documents and his bikes and you will see his preferred spelling. One of the things I find fascinating is that if Greg announced tomorrow that he wished to be called "Roberta" and wished to be addressed as "she," most all of these folks, right-thinking blokes they are, would oblige. But spell his surname as he has asked for 35+ years? No sir. There's a principle involved here.

To be more exact, it's not misspelled--it's misscapitalized (as long as there's a principle involved here). Thanks for staying on point, chiocciolis_calves.

Thanks for the clarification and a thousand apologies for deviating from the riveting original post.

Now, would anyone care to explain why they deliberately "miscapitalize" his name?

o dear off-season, I see you have come to visit us once again, I pray thee to show unto your humble servants your benevolence, o off-season, and provideth trolls with something to rant about

oh you have anyway, never mind
 
Re: Re:

Cannibal72 said:
chiocciolis_calves said:
Choocher said:
chiocciolis_calves said:
Just out of curiosity: why do journalists and some fans who know better insist on misspelling Greg LeMond's name? He has spelled it "LeMond" since at least 1978. You can examine his signature, his name spelled in legal documents and his bikes and you will see his preferred spelling. One of the things I find fascinating is that if Greg announced tomorrow that he wished to be called "Roberta" and wished to be addressed as "she," most all of these folks, right-thinking blokes they are, would oblige. But spell his surname as he has asked for 35+ years? No sir. There's a principle involved here.

To be more exact, it's not misspelled--it's misscapitalized (as long as there's a principle involved here). Thanks for staying on point, chiocciolis_calves.

Oh, good sir, I would humbly submit that the only "trolling" present in this fair thread is by folks who insist, even after being told otherwise, on misspelling a person's name for some strange reason based on some unexplained principle.

In answer to the original question, the correct answer is 56.28 KPH. It would have been 60.13 had it not been for Mr. LeMond's fondness for ice cream, Mexican food and, worst, Mexican fried ice cream.

Thanks for the clarification and a thousand apologies for deviating from the riveting original post.

Now, would anyone care to explain why they deliberately "miscapitalize" his name?

o dear off-season, I see you have come to visit us once again, I pray thee to show unto your humble servants your benevolence, o off-season, and provideth trolls with something to rant about

oh you have anyway, never mind
 
Sep 6, 2016
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Re: Re:

Durden93 said:
swuzzlebubble said:

Watched that before, but will re-watch, fantastic.

As for the post, I think the benefits would be quite low. LeMond was pretty much at the limit of performance already. That TT was slightly downhill, and there was a slight tailwind. It was also only about half the distance of most TTs.

You know, it was exactly because the TT was slightly downhill that I thought Lemond would have hypothetically benefited from modern equipment so much. His speed was always such that he would have benefited from improved aerodynamics. Maybe I'm just thinking about it in the wrong way, though. Thanks.
 
It was established somewhere that his aero helmet actually increased rather than decreased drag - so there is one tangible improvement.

An aero frame is definitely something to consider - if the manufacturers are to be believed, there are very tangible gains to be found there as well.

Other than that, the fact that he spent so much time refining his position in the wind tunnel leads me to think that he had already extracted most of the benefits available. At the end of the day, it is the body itself which creates the most drag, and he had a great position.
 
Re:

This Charming Man said:
The mans' name is LeMond, please respect him!

I do respect him. That's why I'm asking about his amazing TT more than 27 years after the fact. In fact, he is one of the main reasons why I started racing in 1985. Also, having friends in common and having met him in passing several times (I am from the same town as his wife), I can reassure you that he couldn't care less whether I capitalize the M in his last name or not. Seems like you and CC are pretty upset about this, though, so I will spell his name LeMond from here on out. Now put those tissues away and take a deep breath, laddy--everything is ok.
 
Re: Re:

Choocher said:
This Charming Man said:
The mans' name is LeMond, please respect him!

I do respect him. That's why I'm asking about his amazing TT more than 27 years after the fact. In fact, he is one of the main reasons why I started racing in 1985. Also, having friends in common and having met him in passing several times (I am from the same town as his wife), I can reassure you that he couldn't care less whether I capitalize the M in his last name or not. Seems like you and CC are pretty upset about this, though, so I will spell his name LeMond from here on out. Now put those tissues away and take a deep breath, laddy--everything is ok.

May I ask a question: if a person has requested that you spell his/her name a certain way, what is the rational reason for not doing it, particularly when it is as simple as capitalizing a single letter? I brought this up in the first place because over the course of many years, I have observed some people who are fully aware how he has spelled it for 30 years, but for some weird reason, think they know better how he should really spell it.

I think it's safe to say that when a person signs his/her name a certain way and puts that particular spelling onto products bearing his name, he probably cares, but I'll leave it to you to describe the conversation with the man himself in which he told you that he doesn't care how you spell his name. If true, he's the only person I've ever heard of who doesn't care about how others spell his name.
 

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