a possible future for usa riders

[Benotti69]

@lancearmstrong Both champions this weekend are U23 and on Trek-Livestrong. Thoughts

i copied this off the USPRO bike race twitter site.....

my 'thoughts' are that they are already on a program

 

[JRTinMA]

i copied this off the USPRO bike race twitter site.....

my 'thoughts' are that they are already on a program

Do you have a single shred of evidence to suggest this? If knowing somebody or riding on a certain team is your basis you must be very frustrated. There is only 2 or 3 degrees of separation between any active rider and doping. This is irresponsible to post and stinks of jealousy.

 

[TubularBills]

Don't know anything about King. But, Phinney comes from some serious cycling pedigree i.e. "the son of former professional racing cyclist Davis Phinney and former Olympic gold medal racing cyclist and speed skater Connie Carpenter-Phinney."

And Carpenter is quoted during the 84 LA Olympics aftermath as vehemently opposed to doping:

"It's real bad for cycling, and it's real bad for all of us who didn't participate," said Connie Carpenter, a "completely antisubstance" rider who edged Twigg by millimeters to win the women's road race. "The blame falls directly on the coaching staff, and from everything I've heard since, I'm surprised nobody died."

Referring to the 1984 Olympics

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1119061/index.htm

 

[Hugh Januss]

Yeah, innocent until proven guilty and all that. Indeed there is no proof.......other than he beat some known dopers while riding on a team owned by the biggest known doper of all. I would still be skeptical, but maybe slightly less so if Stetina (riding for Garmin) won.
Maybe it's not fair to the kids, but lets chalk it up to another good reason to want to clean up pro cycling.

 

[hrotha]

I don't like the whole guilty by association thing. But:

- We know doping exists in the u23 peloton.
- Trek-Livestrong is sponsored by and serves as development team for one of the most egregious doping users in history, who instituted a team-wide doping program in US Postal.
- Their DS is Axel Merckx, a client of Dr. Ferrari.

I like Phinney and I like to think these guys are clean, but if anything to the contrary was discovered I certainly wouldn't be surprised.

 

[mattfatcyclist]

This is why the sport we love will die. The new USA champs kicked *** and already there cheaters on this forum. WTF??

 

[Hugh Januss]

This is why the sport we love will die. The new USA champs kicked *** and already there cheaters on this forum. WTF??

There are no cheaters on this forum. If you meant they're cheaters, that has nothing to do with this forum and every thing to do with the doping culture that permeates pro sport these days and is what many on this forum are railing against.
How about it, do you favor doping and omerta or speaking out against it?

 

[Anonymous]

Could just be that Trek/Livestrong have snapped up the best youngsters. Seems to me american cycling is made up of young riders and old men, maybe the old men are just past their prime.

Trouble is, Im always going have suspicions about Phinney. 6 Months ago he was lambasting Vino for being a cheating doper who had no place in the sport. Four months later hes riding for Radioshack and saying that maybe he was a bit harsh on judging vino. Makes me wonder what happened in that time or did someone have the "if you want to win youre going to have to dope" conversation with him.

 

[flicker]

I have been watching King for a while. No doubt a deserving winner. Please haters refrain from calling him a doper because he has associations with my Lord Armstrong. I like Sagan better yes but King is not bad for a 21 year old.

 

[Kennf1]

Could just be that Trek/Livestrong have snapped up the best youngsters. Seems to me american cycling is made up of young riders and old men, maybe the old men are just past their prime.

Trek/Livestrong stole Phinney from Slipstream.

 

[jmax22]

Trek/Livestrong stole Phinney from Slipstream.

Lol, Stole him? Phinney made the decision to move to Trek/Livestrong. He wasn't kidnapped and held against his will to ride for them.

 

[Willy_Voet]

He got in an early break with a 14 minute advantage at one point.

You know, sometimes breaks just succeed.

Phinney? He beat a relatively un-sauced LL (i.e an aging domestique)

 

[Kennf1]

Lol, Stole him? Phinney made the decision to move to Trek/Livestrong. He wasn't kidnapped and held against his will to ride for them.

Lighten up. It's a phrase.

No actually, I really meant that they drugged him, kidnapped him, and erased his memory.

 

[blackcat]

There are no cheaters on this forum. If you meant they're cheaters, that has nothing to do with this forum and every thing to do with the doping culture that permeates pro sport these days and is what many on this forum are railing against.
How about it, do you favor doping and omerta or speaking out against it?

this +10000

they are not clean. But this is not really libel, because it is not differentiating them from the rest of the peloton.

 

[jmax22]

Lighten up. It's a phrase.

No actually, I really meant that they drugged him, kidnapped him, and erased his memory.

No they didn't. You lie.

 

[zwiebel2004]

this +10000

they are not clean. But this is not really libel, because it is not differentiating them from the rest of the peloton.

Bull. Straight up bull.

Ben is not doping and there is certainly not a team wide program on Trek-Livestrong. This is not conjecture, I know first hand.

Ben is a strong rider, but certainly not the strongest in the bunch. His best results have usually been achieved by riding smart and toughing it out.

If you want physical stats, he has never even reached 370 watts for 20 minutes.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Bull. Straight up bull.

Ben is not doping and there is certainly not a team wide program on Trek-Livestrong. This is not conjecture, I know first hand.

Ben is a strong rider, but certainly not the strongest in the bunch. His best results have usually been achieved by riding smart and toughing it out.

If you want physical stats, he has never even reached 370 watts for 20 minutes.

If you really think that an uncharged 21 year old can hold off a half dozen Pro Tour (doped) veterans for the second half of a 120 mile race then I think you need to go back into the clinic and do some reading.

 

[rhubroma]

This is why the sport we love will die. The new USA champs kicked *** and already there cheaters on this forum. WTF??

No this is why the sport will live, because of stupid people who refuse to wake the f-up...Indeed someone built his entire career and myth by counting on you guys.

How was it put? Any seven year-old Belgian knows more about cycling than any adult American. And we thought that was all in the past. Thank you for reminding us that the mentality is still alive and doing well.

 

[Benotti69]

Do you have a single shred of evidence to suggest this? If knowing somebody or riding on a certain team is your basis you must be very frustrated. There is only 2 or 3 degrees of separation between any active rider and doping. This is irresponsible to post and stinks of jealousy.

well now let's see;

Trek, Sponsors of dopers USPS/Discovery and every Armstrong team since 1999

Axel Merckx TrekLivestrong DS and former Ferrari client

Livestrong - the personal cash cow of LA and the man likes winners/dope/ lying/bullying/intimitdation

no i dont have evidence but as i stated in my OP, it is my thoughts.

 

[theswordsman]

I used to follow Ben King on twitter, before avoiding anything related to LA. He seemed like a normal, decent kid from an athletic family.

 

[zwiebel2004]

If you really think that an uncharged 21 year old can hold off a half dozen Pro Tour (doped) veterans for the second half of a 120 mile race then I think you need to go back into the clinic and do some reading.

Its certainly possible when that 21 year old kid is given 17 minutes at one point. And that gap was just over 1.5 minutes when Ben reached the finish line.

This type of effort is exactly the way Ben trains. He does long days at a steady effort level, like riding a multiple hour break away. At training camp he caught some flak from the rest of us because everyone thought he was training the wrong way. It looks like now all that type of riding really payed off.

There is no organized doping on the team, I can assure you of that from personal experience.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Its certainly possible when that 21 year old kid is given 17 minutes at one point. And that gap was just over 1.5 minutes when Ben reached the finish line.

This type of effort is exactly the way Ben trains. He does long days at a steady effort level, like riding a multiple hour break away. At training camp he caught some flak from the rest of us because everyone thought he was training the wrong way. It looks like now all that type of riding really payed off.

There is no organized doping on the team, I can assure you of that from personal experience.

I would like to believe that, actually I'd love to believe it. It is hard however given the association with Lance and Axel, the generation that believes anything goes when it comes to race preparation. Hard to believe that they would not pass down their "inner knowledge" to the talented kids on their team, the knowledge learned from Ferrari.

 

[shouldawouldacoulda]

If you really think that an uncharged 21 year old can hold off a half dozen Pro Tour (doped) veterans for the second half of a 120 mile race then I think you need to go back into the clinic and do some reading.

I hope I never get as cynical as you.

+1 to what Zweibel2004 said.

As much h*te as there is for Armstrong in this forum - that is pretty justified - I really struggle with believing he'd conspire to dope his kids team. Come on, really?

I think what we saw yesterday was too much game-play behind in the bunch.

1. 17 mins was way too much time to give anyone in a race that was 180kms. Period. The Big pros goofed, this wasn't a 250km race where the break 'blows up' in spectacular fashion.

2. King had already inked his deal with RSH, maybe the other teams didn't know that, but it definitely affected how RSH rode the race. They'd have preferred if Levi or Horner won, but they knew if King won the jersey was coming to their team anyhow.

3. Most of the guys on GRM have been pretty ungraciously fired. I doubt that team had any unity at all yesterday and the guys were probably riding as individual opportunists. They weren't gonna chase as a team.

4. Bissell and KBS were a bit hooped having Zwiz and Holloway out there. Jamis and UHC are teams who's real strength is with their foreign riders who weren't there... so they were weak teams. Jelly B is a good team but not strong enough to pull back a break like that - nor should they.

5. At best, even the strongest teams seemed to only have 5 or 6 guys. That simply isn't enough to let gaps get that big. See point 1 again.

6. BMC just flat out goofed it up. They should have put a player in the break or they should have gone forward to control the gap sooner than they did. But once they'd decided to play a big game of chicken, that's it, they pretty much had no other choice and they had to let it ride and hope for the best.

Maybe the euro-based guys were arrogant, but I'd never have let King and Zwiz get that much time on a race that was that short. I don't care how hard the hill is. Those guys (King, Zwiz) are just motors and everyone in the race yesterday had enough evidence that was the case to know better.

 

[flicker]

If you really think that an uncharged 21 year old can hold off a half dozen Pro Tour (doped) veterans for the second half of a 120 mile race then I think you need to go back into the clinic and do some reading.

If that were true what about LeMonds,Merckxs Armstrong worlds wins. The only way anyone can tell is with a watt meter, blood/follicle check ,crit check,biopassport intuitive/insiderknowledge. Please do not put stigma upon an individual unless you know something for sure. Let that young man enjoy the glory!

 

[Hugh Januss]

I hope I never get as cynical as you.

+1 to what Zweibel2004 said.

As much h*te as there is for Armstrong in this forum - that is pretty justified - I really struggle with believing he'd conspire to dope his kids team. Come on, really?

I think what we saw yesterday was too much game-play behind in the bunch.

If it wasn't so obvious that everybody at the top dopes and that the biggest doper of them all owns the team the kid races for we would have no reason to be cynical.
I believe Lance would heartily recommend it to any young rider, look what it has done for him.
Clearly he won because nobody chased until it was too late, I can not dispute that.
Just saying I find it a little hard to trust anyone associated with LA, JB, and AM.