A proposed doping solution

Oct 25, 2010
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Proposed improvement to the current system:

Supposedly this is "team sport". Phil and Paul say it, Bob Roll says it. The riders all say it. We say it to our family and friends that can't seem to understand it... Yet everyone is really chasing individual glory and money. Because that is what we reward.

Lebron James might be the MVP (as appointed by journalists), but he doesn't win the NBA championship. His team does. And the team gets the credit for the win.

My rough proposal: Stop awarding an individual GC prize in grand tours, and perhaps all other individual races. Award a team a bonus for individual VICTORY, but do not reward the rider himself with any special prize or recognition. Award all prizes for the team itself. This will provide incentive for the entire team to actually finish the races, and in my opinion, actually cut down on the doping. There should be more scrutiny regarding team doctors and audits of medical records, etc.

Thoughts?
 
Oct 30, 2011
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BotanyBay said:
This will provide incentive for the entire team to actually finish the races, and in my opinion, actually cut down on the doping. There should be more scrutiny regarding team doctors and audits of medical records, etc.
Why would it cut down on doping? Surely it would just encourage the far more damaging form of doping - the team-wide programs.
 
Aug 13, 2010
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And I think typically the winner of the GC gives away the money awarded for GC back to the team pool on the basis the he will make a lot more post race.
 
Aug 2, 2010
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BotanyBay said:
Proposed improvement to the current system:

Supposedly this is "team sport". Phil and Paul say it, Bob Roll says it. The riders all say it. We say it to our family and friends that can't seem to understand it... Yet everyone is really chasing individual glory and money. Because that is what we reward.

Lebron James might be the MVP (as appointed by journalists), but he doesn't win the NBA championship. His team does. And the team gets the credit for the win.

My rough proposal: Stop awarding an individual GC prize in grand tours, and perhaps all other individual races. Award a team a bonus for individual VICTORY, but do not reward the rider himself with any special prize or recognition. Award all prizes for the team itself. This will provide incentive for the entire team to actually finish the races, and in my opinion, actually cut down on the doping. There should be more scrutiny regarding team doctors and audits of medical records, etc.

Thoughts?
you are insane. you do not make sense. you should stop posting at the clinic and go outside. this is entertainment and no matter how much doped wiggins is (more than the rest, because almost all of them are..) no one will have the same benefit from drugs than riders like lance and merckx had.

every winner of any important race doped. deal with it and be a man, behaving like one.
 
May 14, 2010
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BotanyBay said:
Proposed improvement to the current system:

Supposedly this is "team sport". Phil and Paul say it, Bob Roll says it. The riders all say it. We say it to our family and friends that can't seem to understand it... Yet everyone is really chasing individual glory and money. Because that is what we reward.

Lebron James might be the MVP (as appointed by journalists), but he doesn't win the NBA championship. His team does. And the team gets the credit for the win.

My rough proposal: Stop awarding an individual GC prize in grand tours, and perhaps all other individual races. Award a team a bonus for individual VICTORY, but do not reward the rider himself with any special prize or recognition. Award all prizes for the team itself. This will provide incentive for the entire team to actually finish the races, and in my opinion, actually cut down on the doping. There should be more scrutiny regarding team doctors and audits of medical records, etc.

Thoughts?
It would be a profound change for cycling - just when cycling needs profound change. And it might work. By itself, though, it's not enough. Entire teams can be doped, as we've seen in the past, as well as in the present.

Put the onus not on the riders, but on team management and race organizers. In fact, I'd start with the organizers.

As I suggested in another thread, if the new government of France were to get serious about cleaning up its signature, showcase bike race, it could threaten ASO with nationalization of the entire company and all its properties. Believe me, they'd sit up and take notice immediately. You'd see clean racing, and I mean really clean, in no time, at ASO races, anyway. Other countries in Europe could follow suit. Boom, problem solved - or well on its way to being solved.

It's about real, responsible oversight. Nothing else will solve this problem.
 
May 21, 2010
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Theres plenty of simple logical things that you could do too help in the fight against doping.Many of them simple and free too impliment.
For instance the points for deciding pro tour etc, it should be 50% goes to the team and 50% to the rider.Its no coincidence that many who get popped are domestiques,who have to be in shape when needed for big races but also then have too find points elsewhere too increase their own value.(plus u wouldnt have the Hushovd/Fuglsang situations)
Also instead of a two year points ban(which will be out the second it hits a european court ie next year contador) why not a points multiplier... ie..
if your team scores say 1000 points towards world tour status and your team all clean that year u get extra 10% so 1100 points 1200 points for two clean years ,like fair play league gets extra spots in football.
You could do the same thing for having a development team, a womens team things to move the sport forward.But first it would need to be transparent as the UCI keep their"sporting criteria" to themselves.
 
c&cfan said:
you are insane. you do not make sense. you should stop posting at the clinic and go outside. this is entertainment and no matter how much doped wiggins is (more than the rest, because almost all of them are..) no one will have the same benefit from drugs than riders like lance and merckx had.

every winner of any important race doped. deal with it and be a man, behaving like one.
Yes legalize doping
 
c&cfan said:
you are insane. you do not make sense. you should stop posting at the clinic and go outside. this is entertainment and no matter how much doped wiggins is (more than the rest, because almost all of them are..) no one will have the same benefit from drugs than riders like lance and merckx had.

every winner of any important race doped. deal with it and be a man, behaving like one.
Yes legalize doping
 
Mar 19, 2009
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I agree with Dr. Ferrari that if everybody in cycling was simply out to break their own personal power records or times than there's no need for doping in amateur sport. Of course the TDF would have to be amateur.
 
Jul 20, 2010
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User Guide said:
Theres plenty of simple logical things that you could do too help in the fight against doping.Many of them simple and free too impliment.
For instance the points for deciding pro tour etc, it should be 50% goes to the team and 50% to the rider.Its no coincidence that many who get popped are domestiques,who have to be in shape when needed for big races but also then have too find points elsewhere too increase their own value.(plus u wouldnt have the Hushovd/Fuglsang situations)
Also instead of a two year points ban(which will be out the second it hits a european court ie next year contador) why not a points multiplier... ie..
if your team scores say 1000 points towards world tour status and your team all clean that year u get extra 10% so 1100 points 1200 points for two clean years ,like fair play league gets extra spots in football.
You could do the same thing for having a development team, a womens team things to move the sport forward.But first it would need to be transparent as the UCI keep their"sporting criteria" to themselves.
We need to clean house; a temporary amnesty (doping practices admitted with guaranteed anonymity) followed by a more sophisticated bio passport with regular tests.
 
Jun 9, 2011
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c&cfan said:
you are insane. you do not make sense. you should stop posting at the clinic and go outside. this is entertainment and no matter how much doped wiggins is (more than the rest, because almost all of them are..) no one will have the same benefit from drugs than riders like lance and merckx had.

every winner of any important race doped. deal with it and be a man, behaving like one.
You know, c&c fan, I've always appreciated your signature line, as it tells me that you acknowledge, at least implicitly, what you really are. ;)
 
Jul 19, 2009
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I thought this was going to be along the lines of.... if one rider in the "team" gets caught for doping, the entire team should get penalised. eg: receives a 2yr ban from competition.

That sort of makes sense to me because it forces the teams into one of two corners 1) be a clean team and discover anyone doping before the authorities, or 2) be a dirty team and run the risk of financial ruin if a single rider gets caught.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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c&cfan said:
you are insane. you do not make sense. you should stop posting at the clinic and go outside. this is entertainment and no matter how much doped wiggins is (more than the rest, because almost all of them are..) no one will have the same benefit from drugs than riders like lance and merckx had.

every winner of any important race doped. deal with it and be a man, behaving like one.

I thought I was "vile", not insane. Well, at least now I have an excuse, right?
Stay classy. Glad to see that the "no insults" rule is still in place.

How would my proposal reduce doping? I believe that most situations of doping in the current peloton are "hush-hush" situations involving individuals (DS' and riders) who work their personal connections to find the underground network of doctors who are willing to risk providing such services to riders. Each year, this network gets driven more and more underground as the heat becomes hotter. The activity also becomes far more expensive.

By removing the component of individual accolades in the grand tours, I think this would naturally force teams to treat the entire situation much differently. They'd have to forge a much closer bond with each other, and yes, to answer another poster's question, I am proposing an all-for-one, one-for-all penalty for a caught doper. To banish the entire team for a single doping offense (as used to actually take place).

Change is not only good, but inevitable. Not very many of you younger lads happen to know that the TDF used to be comprised of riders belonging to NATIONAL TEAMS ONLY. While individual victory was awarded, each rider was representing his of her national team.

I realize that the riders already "share the wealth" by sharing TDF prize money, but I can assure you that Lance Armstrong wasn't sharing his SCA-funded bonus money with Georgie, Frankie and Floydie. Nor will Wiggo be doing the same with his mates.

I think that by strengthening the link between all riders on a team, we'll be less apt to see them willing to "go indy" and work with the likes of Ferarri and del Moral. Teams will be less likely to use "systematic" programs because it is so much harder to keep a secret such as an organized doping program. As the heat has gotten hotter, the dirty teams have just dumped the burden of finding a good doping program onto the riders themselves. But force the teams to actually act as unified teams? Makes for fewer individual stars, and I think you'll actually see things get a bit better.

Don't get me wrong... I think SKY (as a systematic operation) is up to no good, but I have this sneaking suspicion that WADA (this being an Olympic year) has far more up their sleeves than Sky has anticipated. August will be a very interesting month.

And what will be the incentive for the top riders? Who gives a szhitt? This is a great sport, and people will always want to be part of the TDF (and win stages and be considered the best).

Also, why should strong climbers be the only ones allowed the "top prize" of the race? I think the accomplishments of Cavendish and Sagan can certainly be considered more "MVP-like" than Wiggins' adeptly riding behind Cadel Evans stage after stage.

Change is good. And we can be the ones to change it or watch it get changed FOR us.
 
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