ALI DEAD

[Amsterhammer]

RIP You were the GREATEST.

 

[Merckx index]

If you wanna go to heaven, you do it in seven.

 

[movingtarget]

Sad news but Parkinsons is a slow painful decline. Terrible disease.

 

[Amsterhammer]

" Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go ten thousand miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?

No, I am not going ten thousand miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would put my prestige in jeopardy and could cause me to lose millions of dollars which should accrue to me as the champion.

But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is right here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality…

If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. But I either have to obey the laws of the land or the laws of Allah. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail. We’ve been in jail for four hundred years.”


"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee."

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing."
"The service you do for others is the rent you pay for your room here on Earth."
"Life is a gamble. You can get hurt, but people die in plane crashes, lose their arms and legs in car accidents; people die every day. Same with fighters: some die, some get hurt, some go on. You just don't let yourself believe it will happen to you."
"The man who has no imagination has no wings."
"Friendship is the hardest thing in the world to explain. It's not something you learn in school. But if you haven't learned the meaning of friendship, you really haven't learned anything."
"He who is not courageous enough to take risks will accomplish nothing in life"
"If my mind can conceive it, and my heart can believe it - then I can achieve it."
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life."
"At home I am a nice guy: but I don't want the world to know. Humble people, I've found, don't get very far."
"Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong."
"Live everyday as if it were your last because someday you're going to be right."

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

"I am the greatest. I said that even before I knew I was. I figured that if I said it enough, I would convince the world that I really was the greatest."
"I'm young; I'm handsome; I'm fast. I can't possibly be beat."
"It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am."
"I'm the most recognised and loved man that ever lived"
"If you even dream of beating me you'd better wake up and apologise."
"I've wrestled with alligators. I've tussled with a whale. I done handcuffed lightning and throw thunder in jail. You know I'm bad. Just last week, I murdered a rock, injured a stone, hospitalised a brick. I'm so mean, I make medicine sick."

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

"(Joe) Frazier is so ugly he should donate his face to the US Bureau of Wildlife."
"Frazier is so ugly that when he cries, the tears turn around and go down the back of his head."
"I always bring out the best in men I fight, but Joe Frazier, I'll tell the world right now, brings out the best in me. I'm gonna tell ya, that's one helluva man, and God bless him."
"I've seen George Foreman shadow boxing. And the shadow won."
"Now you see me, now you don't. George thinks he will, but I know he won't!"
"That all you got George?" - Ali to Foreman during the Rumble in the Jungle.
"He's (Sonny Liston) too ugly to be the world champ. The world champ should be pretty like me!"
"Sonny Liston is nothing. The man can't talk. The man can't fight. The man needs talking lessons. The man needs boxing lessons. And since he's gonna fight me, he needs falling lessons."

 

[Pricey_sky]

The worlds greatest, an inspiration to so many. RIP champ.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Some say the greatest boxer, some say a great person, I don't necessarily agree but if there was one thing I wish aspiring boxers would learn from him it's not to out stay your welcome in the ring. RIP Ali.

 

[sir fly]

Hope he's got himself ready.
RIP

 

[Tonton]

The Greatest. RIP.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

He was one of my heroes growing up. I didn't understand what he stood for, but I viewed him as a man of passion, conviction, and personality of course. I think Amster's quote above really said it all.

When I was I believe in high school we had an exchange student visit from somewhere in Africa. One question we asked was who was the most popular, or well known person on the planet. Roland Reagan? What about Mikhail Gorbachev? You can guess who he said. Muhammad Ali. And that popularity lasted. I was pleasantly surprised when just a few years ago I saw a mural in New York, and one of the people painted on it was Muhammad Ali. I had also heard a minister speak on television about black youth today, and how even though Ali long ago retired from boxing, and almost as long ago lost his voice, he still remained an iconic figure.

George Foreman, who later became great friends with Ali, was asked about Ali's greatness. He said it's impossible to say if he actually was the greatest boxer ever, but that didn't matter, because Ali was bigger than boxing, and bigger than sports.

 

[Irondan]

I grew up during the 70's when Ali was still the champ, but in his decline. I remember watching some of the last fights he fought, not realizing how great he really was because the fights that I saw were not so great. I was a kid, so I didn't really understand how he transcended boxing. Obviously as I got older and followed boxing very closely, I was able to re-watch the fights that everyone always talked about.

I remember when Tyson was at his best and all anyone would talk about was how he would end up being the greatest heavyweight in history when he was finally done, but we all know how that turned out. Anyway, even if Tyson never went to prison, never lost to Buster Douglas, didn't bite Evander's ear off and retired undefeated, he would never be mentioned in the same sentence as Ali in my opinion. Muhammad Ali fought some of the greatest heavyweight boxers in boxing history, and lost, only to come back better and win, time and time again. He had the heart of a champion. After winning, losing, and winning again against the competition he faced, he won the game of life and the sport of boxing. Tyson was a thug who beat up thugs... It was never even close.

Ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time. RIP Champ!

 

[Zypherov]

May the 'Greatest' Rest in Peace.

 

[jmdirt]

See ya champ, I'll think of you every time that I see a floating butterfly!

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Ali (or Cassius) was at his absolute best by mid sixties. A defining moment:

Ali was way more than a great boxer.

 

[fatandfast]

My childhood was large. Wallace and Ladmo in the morning. Lots of public service announcements some with Amanda Blake (Miss Kitty from gun smoke) and Jesse Owens. Jesse had a few public service announcements with Ali and my brother and I would jump up and start smaking the chit out of each other every time we saw Ali. His signature moves were in our heads and dreams. He could knock the phuck out of anybody.
Turns out he was right. Great man. Stood his ground about things, lost and regained everything.. Was a religious example to all.brought my bigot granddad to tears more than once as he delivered on some boisterous promise. He delivered.
His head was not 100% as 9-11 happened and passed but I never lost sight that he was a Muslim. He could have calmed the country if he had the words but he didn't. He is a great American and an example of what a person can represent through belief.

 

[StryderHells]

While I absolutely despise boxing in all forms Ali was much more than a boxer, he took stands on important issues and did help inspire his people

 

[Netserk]

Nice to see that people are more respectful here, than Amsterhammer was in the Thatcher thread.

 

[The Hitch]

I think he was intelligent but some of those quotes posted aboe are pretty stupid and some are extreme narcisim of the type I would expect from someone like mourinho

 

[Semper Fidelis]

RIP.

I was just a kid 8 years old. My uncle who was a big boxing fan took me along for the Leon Spinks - Muhammad Ali fight. It was crazy for an 8 year old. According to the News Papers there were 70,000 people in the Dome that night.

I remember also that the fight caused a argument in my own house. My father did not care for Ali at all. The Draft dodger he was and all. Part of that opinion remains for me. Over the years and time I have softened my opinion a little. His stance was not all that noble. His initial reasons for not going to Vietnam was not because of anti-war he did not want to give up the prime of his career, and that changed into the anti-war stance. If people will read up on the fact that he did not have good favor with Dr. Martin Luther King due to his friendship with Malcom X.

AnyWho the fight was something I will always remember. Ali defeated Spinks. They went 15 rounds. After that fight Ali went on to Natchez Mississippi to film the show Freedom Road with Kris Kristofferson. Spinks was basically done after that fight.

The atmosphere in the dome even for a little kid at the age of 8 was electric, packed out was the floor where the boxers came in. I remember trying to strain in my seat to see Ali walk in. The music that was played for the entrance was Pete Fountain who is a New Orleans treasure. I doubt any boxer will have intro music like that ever again. At the dome and ring side for Spinks was Mr. T. who was Spinks body guard at the time seems a bit funny in retrospect.

His contributions to the popular culture of America are good and bad. He was one of the first athletes in America that his personal life was covered by news. In the end my opinion on him was more good than the bad. RIP

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

I think he was intelligent but some of those quotes posted aboe are pretty stupid and some are extreme narcisim of the type I would expect from someone like mourinho

Much of what he said back then was a created character. He got his motivation for the way he spoke about himself and others from a pro wrestler named "Gorgeous George" George Raymond Wagner. It was more of a show.

 

[Merckx index]

Re:

Good post, Glenn, expresses many of my feelings.

I think he was intelligent but some of those quotes posted aboe are pretty stupid and some are extreme narcisim of the type I would expect from someone like mourinho

It’s not well known that he was initially not classified for draft status because, as I understand it, he basically flunked the IQ test. Intelligence has many facets. He was brilliant in some ways, but obviously he was not what one would call an intellectual.

And he was one of sports’ first trash talkers. He demonstrated the marketing success possible in glorifying oneself while humiliating others, and that has spawned many disciples, e.g., Floyd Mayweather and yes, Donald Trump. I’m not a fan of Piers Morgan, but he’s right about comparing Ali to Trump in that particular respect (not in others, obviously; Ali was very generous with his money). Frazier never really forgave Ali for the taunts. Ali also could be very cruel in the ring to people who pushed back against him, e.g., Patterson, whom he toyed with for twelve rounds because he didn't like Floyd's criticism of his separatist views on race.

And what about his life out of the ring? Eventually, he provided great service as an envoy, an inspiration to the poor and sick, and so on, but that was after he retired. An SI writer who followed his career closely noted that Ali was actually on the wrong side in all the key issues in the 60s: he believed in separation of the races (though he later abandoned that position); he was, shall we say, not a fan of women’s rights; and his stance against the war was basically spoon-fed to him by Elijah, who probably wrote those flowery words that were quoted above. There may have been courage in risking his entire career—this was before being against the war was popular even with most students, let alone the general population--but let’s not forget that if had been drafted he still would not have been able to fight for a couple of years, and he risked being killed or suffering a career-ending injury.

Personally, I think the most inspirational aspect of Ali is that he was able to grow and change so much throughout his life. It’s sad that Parkinsonism prevented him from easily expressing this change. But I wouldn't regard him as "greater"--whatever that means--than Jackie Robinson, who had to endure far more hostility and prejudice and weathered it with respect; or ML King, who fought hate and prejudice with love and tolerance; or Mandela, who didn't just risk going to prison, but actually did, in conditions far worse than what Ali would have had to endure.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Re:

Good post, Glenn, expresses many of my feelings.

I think he was intelligent but some of those quotes posted aboe are pretty stupid and some are extreme narcisim of the type I would expect from someone like mourinho

It’s not well known that he was initially not classified for draft status because, as I understand it, he basically flunked the IQ test. Intelligence has many facets. He was brilliant in some ways, but obviously he was not what one would call an intellectual.

And he was one of sports’ first trash talkers. He demonstrated the marketing success possible in glorifying oneself while humiliating others, and that has spawned many disciples, e.g., Floyd Mayweather and yes, Donald Trump. I’m not a fan of Piers Morgan, but he’s right about comparing Ali to Trump in that particular respect (not in others, obviously; Ali was very generous with his money). Frazier never really forgave Ali for the taunts. Ali also could be very cruel in the ring to people who pushed back against him, e.g., Patterson, whom he toyed with for twelve rounds because he didn't like Floyd's criticism of his separatist views on race.

And what about his life out of the ring? Eventually, he provided great service as an envoy, an inspiration to the poor and sick, and so on, but that was after he retired. An SI writer who followed his career closely noted that Ali was actually on the wrong side in all the key issues in the 60s: he believed in separation of the races (though he later abandoned that position); he was, shall we say, not a fan of women’s rights; and his stance against the war was basically spoon-fed to him by Elijah, who probably wrote those flowery words that were quoted above. There may have been courage in risking his entire career—this was before being against the war was popular even with most students, let alone the general population--but let’s not forget that if had been drafted he still would not have been able to fight for a couple of years, and he risked being killed or suffering a career-ending injury.

Personally, I think the most inspirational aspect of Ali is that he was able to grow and change so much throughout his life. It’s sad that Parkinsonism prevented him from easily expressing this change. But I wouldn't regard him as "greater"--whatever that means--than Jackie Robinson, who had to endure far more hostility and prejudice and weathered it with respect; or ML King, who fought hate and prejudice with love and tolerance; or Mandela, who didn't just risk going to prison, but actually did, in conditions far worse than what Ali would have had to endure.

Thanks.

You are correct about Frazier never forgave Ali for the things that were said before, during and after. During the Ali - Spinks part 2 Frazier lip sync the national anthem. Afterwards Frazier spoke to Spinks but did not bother to speak to Ali.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Nearly all of Ali's opponents were fans and friends of Ali, certainly after they fought. Ken Norton and George Foreman are probably the best examples. Both being very close friends of Ali after they fought. Ken and Ali actually grew close after their first fight, with Muhammad supporting Norton in his fight with Foreman. George Chuvalo once noted that before his first fight with Ali he thought Ali was a bit of a loud mouthed ego, but when their first fight was announced he met the real Ali, who told him that if George played the straight guy, and let Ali do all the talking, it would help promote the fight and sell a lot of tickets, which it did. Chuvalo had great respect and admiration for Ali as a fighter, and a friend.

But there were other fighters that Ali wasn't friends with. Sonny Liston and Ernie Terrell come to mind, but neither were nice people and neither liked Ali either. But it is true that, the one fighter that Ali took the game too far with was Frazier. He didn't have a beef with Joe in the early days, but viewed Joe as having his title undeservedly. His poking at Joe about that before their first fight definitely motivated Joe, but unlike other opponents, Frazier is the one fighter that Ali didn't really let up on going into their second, and especially third fight. Foreman once said that Joe is the one person Ali really could have been nicer to. In the end, Fraizer took it personally, and became bitter about it, even after both were long retired, and Ali tried to reconcile with him.

My personal quibble with Ali is that he fought too long, too many times. He had excellent defensive skills, but could, and did get hit, and it took a severe toll. He easily could have retired after beating Foreman, and if not then, after the Thrilla in Manila. There was no reason to continue after that at all. As Irondan noted, Ali's skills declined, and some decisions were overly favorable late in his career. The stoppage to Lyle was probably premature (for the 70's boxing) and Ali was losing that fight. The fight with Young he looked terrible. The decision over Shavers was close with Ali scoring no damage to Ernie. Worst of all the third fight with Norton, which many pundits thought Ken clearly won, including myself, an Ali fan. The loss to Spinks was fairly ugly, and the fight with Holmes is the worst fight in boxing history and never should been allowed to happen.

But one doesn't measure someone's career by it's twilight, but it's prime. The prime Ali, between the first win over Liston - a huge upset in it's day - through the dominant win over Foley, was an Ali that was as good as any boxer ever. Even the Ali that returned and beat Quarry, Buenavena, and Ellis, and the one who lost to Frazier, was nearly prime Ali, and a savvy but skilled Ali won rematches with Frazier and Norton, and the astounding win over Foreman on nearly guile and ring smarts alone. That's the Ali the boxer we remember.