Allowed and no allowed routes in pro road cycling.

[Taxus4a]

I would like to know wich routes are allowed in pro road cycling.

I have read the rules and the guide of race organicers, but I have still some doubts.

Anybody knows about it?

Wich is the minimun high, and wide of a point of a route? I mean and arch, or Koppenberg about 3 meters...

Must cars go always with cyclist?? all cars (with bikes above), ambulances? it is possible to do everything with motorbikes instead car or at least a part?

Excepctions

The surface: sterrato, pavé,..,wich is the limit of quality? Arenberg, Tro bro Leon?

Thanks.

 

[Taxus4a]

As I though after to read the clinic, people that is today inside cycling or who undertand more about this sport is not very often in this forum.

It is a pity, becouse this is for an important issue.

Thanks anyway.

 

[SmorgCycle]

Re:

As I though after to read the clinic, people that is today inside cycling or who undertand more about this sport is not very often in this forum.

It is a pity, becouse this is for an important issue.

Thanks anyway.

I'm afraid the lack of response is probably because it's hard to understand exactly what it is you are asking rather than because this forum is less visited than The Clinic. I take it English isn't your first language. Nothing wrong with that... but after many rereads I still don't know what you are asking for. Maybe you can get someone there that knows English better to rephrase the question for you and then re-post?

 

[avanti]

I'm also not sure what you are asking but the UCI rules and regulations spell out road race requirements:
http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Rulesandregulation/16/82/39/2-ROA-20150701-E_English.pdf

 

[RedheadDane]

I think it depend on a whole lot of varieties.

For example regarding road-width:
The Koppenberg may be only about three metre wide, but it's a rather steep climb which means that the riders are spread out over a distance.
However, a three metre wide road would probably not be a very good idea for a fast bunch sprint.

As for cars; there have been examples of team cars being unable to follow riders up a climb, so they just had to use a moto-bike instead.
Of course, as we've seen several examples of recently, too many race vehicles can be a bit of a problem.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

I think it depend on a whole lot of varieties.

For example regarding road-width:
The Koppenberg may be only about three metre wide, but it's a rather steep climb which means that the riders are spread out over a distance.
However, a three metre wide road would probably not be a very good idea for a fast bunch sprint.

As for cars; there have been examples of team cars being unable to follow riders up a climb, so they just had to use a moto-bike instead.
Of course, as we've seen several examples of recently, too many race vehicles can be a bit of a problem.

Thanks to everybody for the answer.

(I didnt mean about that with the clinic)

I have read all the UCI rules and as well the UCI guide for organizers. There are some things no clear.

What I understand, after to talk with people os spanish federation and some cyclist is that the difference between road cycling and other cycling as MTB, ciclocross,.. it is no mainly the kind of surfade, as we can see in Tro Bro Leon, Herning, Roubaix or other races, but it is the motor vehicules who follow the race. The route must allow these vehicules to go, so there are lot of paces where a road bike can go, but not a car, and in that case that route is not possible, not allowed in fact.

A man told me that once whach a race where they crossed a medieval bridge and the cars went for a paralel newer bridge. But that is a short exception who organizers try to avoid.

But the fact is that there are some exceptions.

Some times I think there are some parts of a race where team cars go for an alternative route, I am not very sure, but I think so.

Some people told me that some cars: director, Jury, must always go, but with the rest could go some exceptions. I am not sure

I know is difficult to answer my question, I just want to know if someone can answer these ones, or at least something in relation:

1. Must always cars go with cyclist? It is possible sometimes just motorbikes? for example, 2 km narrow road (2 metres), with an alternative road of 4 km.

2. The same for ambulances, always in all the route or is POSSIBLE some exceptions, with segurity?

3. In the case cars must go, I understand 3 meters is the minimum wide, but, maybe 2,5 m sould be alowed for 1 Km? (it is enough to stop a car (about 2 m) and allow a rider to go. I say 3 meters becouse is the minimum i see in koppenberg, in tro Bro Leon (sometime less, but it is just one point, a gate or ssomething like that.

4. Then hight. that is important, UCi rules said car high must be 1 62, but cars go with bikes above, so if team cars must go always for the route, some archs are impossible to cross in a race.

I show you examples:

it is not the case, but imagine I am a race organizer and i want to do an sterrato to do a race over that naroow track. of course is cheaper and better for the landcape if the sterrato is a road of 2.5 meters than 3 or 4.

The same over here, this is about 2.5, it would be enough for cars and bikes, and ambulances?

(I dont mean the steps)

This kind or archs, I understand is not possible, except cars are not always along the route of cyclist, not only narrow, but hight.

You say in your answers you know about some exceptions, could you be more accurate in that?



In the past, this is a race, and this is Eddy:

I dont know if I got to explain myself, it woukld be a good help if someone Knows something or some people who can help me. or maybe I must writte UCI.

Anyway if you dont know, could be interesting your opinion about where must be the limit about the route in pro road cycling, considering vehicule, and how you consider exceptions shoud be to improve routes, landscape and spectacle, with security.

In the polemic TTT of the Vuelta, it was really narrow for cars, less than 2.5 meters but a TTT is not a road race where cars must sometimes to pass cyclist, and things as jesper Skibbi in Koppenberg could happen.

Cheers.

 

[Taxus4a]

I could see how in Muro di Sormano, in Giro di Lombardia, team cars went for the usual route, but some cars, inlcuding ambulances went for the muro.

Anyone knows about other exceptions like this in cycling?

Thanks

 

[Billie]

Re:

I could see how in Muro di Sormano, in Giro di Lombardia, team cars went for the usual route, but some cars, inlcuding ambulances went for the muro.

Anyone knows about other exceptions like this in cycling?

Thanks

Koppenberg, Kemmelberg.

On Zoncolan and Kronplatz the mechanics jump on motorbikes that replace the team cars.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Schaal Sels set some tongues in motion about what can and can't be done a couple of months ago. For the most part, the race is a typical cobbled .1 one day race, with a number of (pretty awesome) flat cobbled stretches and occasional gravel roads or dirt paths à la Tro Bro Léon, but the decision to stick the riders through a sticky mud section through the middle of a cornfield was pretty problematic:

Get rid of this gimmicky section, however, and we might have a race which could increase its status; it's a far cry now from the race it was when Fast Freddy Rodriguez and Tom Steels were winning it, hopefully it can be turned more back into something like it was in the days when Stan Ockers, Rik van Looy and Herman van Springel got onto the winners' list.

 

[RedheadDane]

What? Whoever thought that was a good idea?

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

I could see how in Muro di Sormano, in Giro di Lombardia, team cars went for the usual route, but some cars, inlcuding ambulances went for the muro.

Anyone knows about other exceptions like this in cycling?

Thanks

Koppenberg, Kemmelberg.

On Zoncolan and Kronplatz the mechanics jump on motorbikes that replace the team cars.

Thanks, I would like to know more about that, if possible.

I realized that in Bola del mundo there is no cars in all the 3,5 Km, any kind of cars, but it is the end of the race, as Zoncolan or Kronplatz..

When you mean motorbikes that replaces team cars you meanneutral motorbikes, dont you? Nautral assitance with team mechanics? So, 20 team motorbikes or just some neutral motorbike? But in Zoncolan I guess there is ambulances, in Bola del Mundo no...

About Koppenberg and Kemmelberg...tema cars are not allowed, but other cars yes, arent they? i suppose is like in Sormano.

Cheers.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Schaal Sels set some tongues in motion about what can and can't be done a couple of months ago. For the most part, the race is a typical cobbled .1 one day race, with a number of (pretty awesome) flat cobbled stretches and occasional gravel roads or dirt paths à la Tro Bro Léon, but the decision to stick the riders through a sticky mud section through the middle of a cornfield was pretty problematic:

Get rid of this gimmicky section, however, and we might have a race which could increase its status; it's a far cry now from the race it was when Fast Freddy Rodriguez and Tom Steels were winning it, hopefully it can be turned more back into something like it was in the days when Stan Ockers, Rik van Looy and Herman van Springel got onto the winners' list.

Amazing pictures, thank you very much.

The mud one is crazy, althoug is not a really narrow road. Why to allow cars over there is they cant do anything but problems? Really surprised UCI allows that section, but as I said the most important thing in road cycling is the posibility of cars, more than the surface.

Other sections look really narrow...

I will find out more about that

 

[Taxus4a]

Another picture of that race...my problem is not going to be the mud, I think. I dont know if that is good of no, if must be allowed of no, but of course the pictures are spectacular. I dindt know that race:

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

I realized that in Bola del mundo there is no cars in all the 3,5 Km, any kind of cars, but it is the end of the race, as Zoncolan or Kronplatz..

When you mean motorbikes that replaces team cars you meanneutral motorbikes, dont you? Nautral assitance with team mechanics? So, 20 team motorbikes or just some neutral motorbike? But in Zoncolan I guess there is ambulances, in Bola del Mundo no...

In Ovaro the mechanics all jump out the team car, take the team leaders bike off the car and jump on the back of a motorbike. They ride up the Zoncolan holding the bike:

About Koppenberg and Kemmelberg: It's indeed similar to Sormano. Team cars take another route, as do almost all other motorbikes and vehicles. I think a couple of jury people on motorbikes and one or two live commentators ride over it.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

Schaal Sels set some tongues in motion about what can and can't be done a couple of months ago. For the most part, the race is a typical cobbled .1 one day race, with a number of (pretty awesome) flat cobbled stretches and occasional gravel roads or dirt paths à la Tro Bro Léon, but the decision to stick the riders through a sticky mud section through the middle of a cornfield was pretty problematic:

Get rid of this gimmicky section, however, and we might have a race which could increase its status; it's a far cry now from the race it was when Fast Freddy Rodriguez and Tom Steels were winning it, hopefully it can be turned more back into something like it was in the days when Stan Ockers, Rik van Looy and Herman van Springel got onto the winners' list.

I think the mud is a good thing. If they could find an alternative route for the support vehicles it would be alright.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

I realized that in Bola del mundo there is no cars in all the 3,5 Km, any kind of cars, but it is the end of the race, as Zoncolan or Kronplatz..

When you mean motorbikes that replaces team cars you meanneutral motorbikes, dont you? Nautral assitance with team mechanics? So, 20 team motorbikes or just some neutral motorbike? But in Zoncolan I guess there is ambulances, in Bola del Mundo no...

In Ovaro the mechanics all jump out the team car, take the team leaders bike off the car and jump on the back of a motorbike. They ride up the Zoncolan holding the bike:

About Koppenberg and Kemmelberg: It's indeed similar to Sormano. Team cars take another route, as do almost all other motorbikes and vehicles. I think a couple of jury people on motorbikes and one or two live commentators ride over it.

I remember those pictures, but I didnt realized it was exactly like that, thanks. In the past anyway I dint think too much about these things. But that I think is like that becpuse is a final climb, other way impossible.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Schaal Sels set some tongues in motion about what can and can't be done a couple of months ago. For the most part, the race is a typical cobbled .1 one day race, with a number of (pretty awesome) flat cobbled stretches and occasional gravel roads or dirt paths à la Tro Bro Léon, but the decision to stick the riders through a sticky mud section through the middle of a cornfield was pretty problematic:

I think the mud is a good thing. If they could find an alternative route for the support vehicles it would be alright.

What we mean with support vehicles?

In general, except some exceptiosn at the end of a stage like in Bola el Mundo, cars like director, jury, doctor, neutral assitance, ambulance, etc.. must go with the race, but not always team cars, although almost always.

if you mean no cars, maybe just some motorbikes, then it is possible to do a part of a race in a narrow street or pass of 1 metre wide or with an obstacle ho just allow to pass motorbikes and bikes, but no cars.

Today that is no possible.

And the mud... it is nice, but if cars, and at least 10 cars (and a lot of motorbikes) pass through Muro di Sormano (and I think is the same in Koppenberg), it could be a problem for those vehicles to go for the mud and they may create problems.

That is not a problem in ciclocross or in MTB becouse there is no vehicles. It is the difference with road cycling, the route is conditionated by cars, except in la Bola del Mundo, just 3,5 Km finish (or some medieval bridges with a paralel road (but anyway if that is possible, make me wonder some question about if road cycling should pass for a 500 meters way with very narrow sections without any cars, and cars go for other longer way...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

I think the mud is a good thing. If they could find an alternative route for the support vehicles it would be alright.

Thing is, this is a professional road race. While the cobbled sectors are roads, and the impacted dirt roads of strade bianche and the majority in Tro Bro Léon and indeed Schaal Sels are also roads, albeit in infrequent use, that's not a dirt road, that's a cornfield with a path through it. If it were the only "off-piste" type sector in the race, that's one thing. But the race can clearly break the péloton up with its road surfaces without resorting to that kind of gimmickry, because those other cobbled sectors and the other dirt road that Taxus showed the photo of don't present the same kind of problem.

You could argue that more people know about Schaal Sels now because of the cornfield sector and don't realise it was once a pretty useful race. But this is based around Antwerp - look at all those beautiful cobbled sectors that the S**********s doesn't allow

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

I think the mud is a good thing. If they could find an alternative route for the support vehicles it would be alright.

Thing is, this is a professional road race. While the cobbled sectors are roads, and the impacted dirt roads of strade bianche and the majority in Tro Bro Léon and indeed Schaal Sels are also roads, albeit in infrequent use, that's not a dirt road, that's a cornfield with a path through it. If it were the only "off-piste" type sector in the race, that's one thing. But the race can clearly break the péloton up with its road surfaces without resorting to that kind of gimmickry, because those other cobbled sectors and the other dirt road that Taxus showed the photo of don't present the same kind of problem.

You could argue that more people know about Schaal Sels now because of the cornfield sector and don't realise it was once a pretty useful race. But this is based around Antwerp - look at all those beautiful cobbled sectors that the S**********s doesn't allow

That mud section is part of a cornfield? it is not a way (road or similar) between cornfields? I mean, it is a property with its proper use is a crop?

Why they dont allow some cobbled sections?

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

By the way, I was thinking that cornfield strech wanst really narrow, by looking at the forst car, but that car must be really narrow iof you see the man is in the picture. A car use to be 1.80 wide, and that man must be less than 2 meters, so that car shoudl be 1.5 meters way and the path no much more than 3 meters, anyway there that is not a realproblem, it is the mud surface and that is not a dirty road, it is just land, crop soil.

 

[RedheadDane]

Can't help but looking at the cornfield-bit from the PoV of the owner of said cornfield:
"Hey! How do you feel about us taking an entire bike race through your field? Bikes, cars, motos. Awesome, right?"

As for why cobbles - and gravel - is allowed; well, sometimes that's the road. Asphalt (sp?) is actually a pretty new invention.
Sure, sometimes 'repairing' a cobbled section consists of cleaning the cobbles but making sure each individual cobble remain as badly placed as it was before.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Why they dont allow some cobbled sections?

Schaal Sels is happy to use any of the cobbled sectors anywhere near Antwerp.

The bigger race in the region is the S**********s and that doesn't allow most of the cobbled sectors because it is a hateful, loathsome race.

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

You could argue that more people know about Schaal Sels now because of the cornfield sector and don't realise it was once a pretty useful race.

Not sure about that. I didn't know about that incident before you posted this but here in Belgium everybody know about the Schaal Sels. It's the first pro race at Jempi Monseré entered in 1969 but unfortunately he came too late for the start. I think it's also the race in which Christophe Brandt destroyed his knees.

In the local press (Het Nieuwsblad), there's just a small article about the incident and a larger article about how the race unfolded, as it should be.

"Until the neutralization, everything was okay. I even found it unique to take part in it. But then, all of a sudden, we stumbled on a wall of police agents. The race had to be re-shuffled. We stood still, didn't know why and knew even less where we were. Never seen that. But all things considered it was a very enjoyable race. It was only hard for us rider to orientate. At some point you race on normal roads, then on something that lays in-between asphalt and a cross parcours."

Said cross talent Wout Van Aert about the race that he animated along with Tim Declercq. With 10k to go they were still in the breakaway.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Why they dont allow some cobbled sections?

Schaal Sels is happy to use any of the cobbled sectors anywhere near Antwerp.

The bigger race in the region is the S**********s and that doesn't allow most of the cobbled sectors because it is a hateful, loathsome race.

Wich one?

 

[Billie]

Scheldeprijs