An opinion about legalising doping

Oct 20, 2012
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I read by chance this article where Tony Thompson ( an American heavyweight boxing athlete) claims the follow: ( I copy from the article)

[...]performance-enhancing drugs are proving so damaging in professional sport that only by allowing everyone to pump currently banned substances into their body could it approach fairness.

[...]Thompson suggested sport has become mainstream entertainment and that the appetite for a show means there is a case that can be made for making it ever more spectacular.

[...]we want our athletes to be heroes and to be great and to be bigger than life.

[...]It's a person's choice, such as abortion and other things we don't agree with.'

[...]'My son plays football and basketball and the last thing I want to do is inject him with anything that's going to alter his natural body rhythm.[...]But Thompson would leave it to others to reach their own decision

[...]'That's their choice,' he said. 'Some of the things we use to dope actually helps the body.

My opinion is that this guy is missing what is the real meaning of sports, and that sports are not just entertainment. But some may find his arguments if not right, at least rational from an alternative point of view.

What is your opinion?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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sport is what one was brought up on as a child, youth, and juvenile.

when the product is monetized and professionalised, and media is sold on its back, the social construction that is sport, and transmogrified to an entertainment business.

but "we" cannot see this evolution, and when it transcends the sport "we" knew.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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my opinion?

why not start with the thoughts of someone that hasn't spent their life being bashed in the head?
 
I heard the guy he is fighting on the radio say that he had never been tested since turning pro, and since he said that he had 4 tests, a boxer from Liverpool (I think), so famous I had never heard of him before and can't remember his namenow
 
Oct 21, 2012
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alitogata said:
I read by chance this article where Tony Thompson ( an American heavyweight boxing athlete) claims the follow: ( I copy from the article)

[...]performance-enhancing drugs are proving so damaging in professional sport that only by allowing everyone to pump currently banned substances into their body could it approach fairness.

[...]Thompson suggested sport has become mainstream entertainment and that the appetite for a show means there is a case that can be made for making it ever more spectacular.

[...]we want our athletes to be heroes and to be great and to be bigger than life.

[...]It's a person's choice, such as abortion and other things we don't agree with.'

[...]'My son plays football and basketball and the last thing I want to do is inject him with anything that's going to alter his natural body rhythm.[...]But Thompson would leave it to others to reach their own decision

[...]'That's their choice,' he said. 'Some of the things we use to dope actually helps the body.

My opinion is that this guy is missing what is the real meaning of sports, and that sports are not just entertainment. But some may find his arguments if not right, at least rational from an alternative point of view.

What is your opinion?
I find very few real fans of sport that would want a sport that theyv'e normally paricipated in at some level or at least if not - followed for a long time wanting their sport transformed into something unrecognisable or believable just for the sake of entertainment.

That is why in a lot of sports fans are willing to go and watch lower league/lower quality levels of that sport week in week out and still get plenty of entertainment out of it (ok not always but my experience is that sometimes you get more entertainment than watching the elite and sometimes less).

The thought as pointed out by BC that this can be manipulated by or worse dictated by a media boss for ratings is a general turn off for the genuine fans.

I'm not so naive to suggest that this isn't happening all the time to some degree, however the "need to be entertained masses" that they are reaching out to generally are a fickle bunch who are just as happy watching pop idol, gladiators next reality sh*t and will flit around from one fad to another.

By falsely manipulating a sport for some media idiot's perception of entertainment turns off the genuine and can leave that sport in serious jeoparady.

Hence i don't think you'll find many genuine fans wanting this artificiality to enhance 'so-called' entertainment to improve their sport. They love it for what it is.
 
Oct 20, 2012
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autologous said:
my opinion?

why not start with the thoughts of someone that hasn't spent their life being bashed in the head?
Because I find interesting and I appreciate in a manner of speaking, that he talks openly about his thoughts, while others, who had even had a surgery in their brain (!! :rolleyes:), kept on doping and never talked about (their ) thoughts. :p

I don't agree with him, but I have to admit that from his point of view has an argument. He seems that he knows that he is used as an object for entertaining people. Very cynical and conscious about how things are.
 
alitogata said:
...

My opinion is that this guy is missing what is the real meaning of sports, and that sports are not just entertainment. But some may find his arguments if not right, at least rational from an alternative point of view.

What is your opinion?
blackcat said:
sport is what one was brought up on as a child, youth, and juvenile.

when the product is monetized and professionalised, and media is sold on its back, the social construction that is sport, and transmogrified to an entertainment business.

but "we" cannot see this evolution, and when it transcends the sport "we" knew.
I agree with both of you.

And, I thought this article yesterday (referenced earlier in an Armstrong thread) also spoke to what is the bigger problem:

Drugs, deaths and fake girlfriends: Sports off to a bad start in 2013

Turns out that lots of athletes are jerks. And, their poor decision making goes way beyond popping a few pills or taking a few injections.

But, we deify them anyways.

Lots of folks would tolerate Lance as a doper. Lots of folks other than me, of course.

But, it is his sociopathy that ultimately brings the cold reality home.

All of this, apparently, because our ancestors grew up on the wrong side of the Congo River.

Bonobo Chimps, having grown up on the other side, are cooperative. Think '90s guys.

Humans and other primates, however, had to be ruthlessly competitive to survive. And, now we end up supporting the most ruthless a**holes we can create.

We are all crazy.

Dave.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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D-Queued said:
Turns out that lots of athletes are jerks. And, their poor decision making goes way beyond popping a few pills or taking a few injections.

But, we deify them anyways.

Lots of folks would tolerate Lance as a doper. Lots of folks other than me, of course.
multiple op-ed(s) have come out in the last week in the moribund broadsheets on this
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/we-are-fools-to-think-we-truly-know-our-sporting-heroes-20130221-2eu4z.html

I dont think we deify "them". I think we construct an ideal "me" and project this view onto Tiger et al, and live vicariously thru this mirror lens.

Then when they trip up, "we" either i) deny their complicity (guilt, cos it would be our guilt) or ii) deceive ourselves on a more overt deception. suspend disbelief.


the more interest psychological phenomena for me is, when Armstrong and Capital Sports and Entertainment employ Public Strategies to run deflection and obfuscation on the internet, with interns from Livestrong, this could not possibly number more than a few dozen. But apart from salaried and intern rsi data entry bots, there are many people who venture into the frey to do their bidding for them, unpaid, and one could not discern the difference between an Arbiter, BanProCycling, Polish, and the intern/Public Strategies professional.

So what does House, Dave Brower, Chris H, and others get in return for shilling the myth?
 
Aug 7, 2010
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alitogata said:
I read by chance this article where Tony Thompson ( an American heavyweight boxing athlete) claims the follow: ( I copy from the article)

[...]performance-enhancing drugs are proving so damaging in professional sport that only by allowing everyone to pump currently banned substances into their body could it approach fairness.

[...]Thompson suggested sport has become mainstream entertainment and that the appetite for a show means there is a case that can be made for making it ever more spectacular.

[...]we want our athletes to be heroes and to be great and to be bigger than life.

[...]It's a person's choice, such as abortion and other things we don't agree with.'

[...]'My son plays football and basketball and the last thing I want to do is inject him with anything that's going to alter his natural body rhythm.[...]But Thompson would leave it to others to reach their own decision

[...]'That's their choice,' he said. 'Some of the things we use to dope actually helps the body.

My opinion is that this guy is missing what is the real meaning of sports, and that sports are not just entertainment. But some may find his arguments if not right, at least rational from an alternative point of view.

What is your opinion?
Dementia pugilistica.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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I in fact find it a great idea. The only thing is they should tell what they are taking so we categorise them in like 125CC, 250CC, SuperDopers etc etc. In that case the clean athletes will have their own field and nutcases like this one for their own.
 
blackcat said:
...

I dont think we deify "them". I think we construct an ideal "me" and project this view onto Tiger et al, and live vicariously thru this mirror lens.

...

So what does House, Dave Brower, Chris H, and others get in return for shilling the myth?
1. Good point.

2. Knowledge that their 15 minutes of fame was used up by being forever recognized as idolism at its worst?

Dave.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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alitogata said:
I read by chance this article where Tony Thompson ( an American heavyweight boxing athlete) claims the follow: ( I copy from the article)

[...]performance-enhancing drugs are proving so damaging in professional sport that only by allowing everyone to pump currently banned substances into their body could it approach fairness.

[...]Thompson suggested sport has become mainstream entertainment and that the appetite for a show means there is a case that can be made for making it ever more spectacular.

[...]we want our athletes to be heroes and to be great and to be bigger than life.

[...]It's a person's choice, such as abortion and other things we don't agree with.'

[...]'My son plays football and basketball and the last thing I want to do is inject him with anything that's going to alter his natural body rhythm.[...]But Thompson would leave it to others to reach their own decision

[...]'That's their choice,' he said. 'Some of the things we use to dope actually helps the body.

My opinion is that this guy is missing what is the real meaning of sports, and that sports are not just entertainment. But some may find his arguments if not right, at least rational from an alternative point of view.

What is your opinion?
The harm done to the body might eventually curtail a lot of it as more athletes get used by the system and casualties mount, but there is a long way to go. On the surface, it makes for a better show for the fans and draws people to a sport, but it's clear that it is increasley hard to hide.

No, the right path is no dope. It's not real. All of sport should sign the dotted line on WADA testing. Armstrong may be self-serving in his motive, but it is true that a world body with the power to test anywhere, anytime is needed. Unlikely unfortunetly, if you really think about it.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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alitogata said:
I read by chance . . . Tony Thompson . . . claims the follow:

[...]performance-enhancing drugs are proving so damaging in professional sport that only by allowing everyone to pump currently banned substances into their body could it approach fairness.

[...]Thompson suggested sport has become mainstream entertainment . . .

[...]we want our athletes to be heroes and to be great and to be bigger than life.

My opinion is that this guy is missing what is the real meaning of sports, and that sports are not just entertainment. . . .
blackcat said:
. . .when the product is monetized and professionalised, and media is sold on its back, the social construction that is sport, and transmogrified to an entertainment business. . . .
but "we" cannot see this evolution, and when it transcends the sport "we" knew.
D-Queued said:
. . .their poor decision making goes way beyond popping a few pills or taking a few injections.
But, we deify them anyways.
blackcat said:
. . .I dont think we deify "them". I think we construct an ideal "me" and project this view onto Tiger et al, and live vicariously thru this mirror lens.

Then when they trip up, "we" either i) deny their complicity (guilt, cos it would be our guilt) or ii) deceive ourselves on a more overt deception. suspend disbelief.
. . .
I agree that we DO deify them - but it is also an "ideal me" construct. Sports have always been an extension of some part of our lives - a way to have conflict and to compete, both as practice for the real competition in our lives (be it war or business), and as a personal status thing. And, any time you have more than one spectator, you have "entertainment".

We pick our heroes and deify them because we think they can win for our side - whatever our side is - be it the neighborhood, the family, the school, state, political affiliation, or nation. WWE pro wrestling is an example of a distillation down to the deification of hero for deification's sake, and simultaneously an example of sport as "pure" entertainment. The Yankees vs the Dodgers is an example of locale, and our Brit friends can give us some examples there from their football.

But the reason lots of athletes are jerks is BECAUSE they are "heroes", and treated as such. They end up believing their own "press". For examples of extreme negative affects of social deification, we need look no farther than our music stars, especially those who were also child stars. Michael Jackson and Britney Spears come to mind.

autologous said:
. . .
why not start with the thoughts of someone that hasn't spent their life being bashed in the head?
He's an American footballer? Hahahaha, yer funny!

Tom375 said:
. . . very few real fans . . . that would want . . . their sport transformed into something unrecognisable or believable just for the sake of entertainment.

That is why in a lot of sports fans are willing to go and watch lower league/lower quality levels . . .

The thought as pointed out by BC that this can be manipulated by or worse dictated by a media boss for ratings is a general turn off for the genuine fans. . . .
Hang on a sec - what's the ticket price on a AAA baseball game? And what's the ticket price on a major league game? What's the average crowd at a AAA game? Major league? Ditto football - any kind. Ditto bicycle race, except there ya just gotta measure audience size, since tv is a big part of that.

My friend, when I go to watch a Golden Gloves tourney, how many people would I see? Now, if I try to buy a ticket to the top card on a boxing match, how much do I pay, IF I can get a ticket at the promoter's price?

I think your "real" fans are few and far between - and the market demonstrates this reality.
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
I in fact find it a great idea. The only thing is they should tell what they are taking so we categorise them in like 125CC, 250CC, SuperDopers etc etc. In that case the clean athletes will have their own field and nutcases like this one for their own.
Hahaha, yer so very funny! :D But what do yer do when the 125CC crowd is sneakin' 135cc, and avoidin' detection, eh?

We are all crazy . . .Dave.
Hehehehehe. MUAHAHAHahahahaha!
 
Jul 26, 2012
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And where would a high performance athlete who wanted to compete clean stand? What's he told to do? And what about the message we give to children?

I though Freak Shows had died out in Victorian times.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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hiero2 said:
I agree that we DO deify them - but it is also an "ideal me" construct. Sports have always been an extension of some part of our lives - a way to have conflict and to compete, both as practice for the real competition in our lives (be it war or business), and as a personal status thing. And, any time you have more than one spectator, you have "entertainment".

We pick our heroes and deify them because we think they can win for our side - whatever our side is - be it the neighborhood, the family, the school, state, political affiliation, or nation. WWE pro wrestling is an example of a distillation down to the deification of hero for deification's sake, and simultaneously an example of sport as "pure" entertainment. The Yankees vs the Dodgers is an example of locale, and our Brit friends can give us some examples there from their football.
I was making a point, the point on a meta level. which did concede the premise of DQ re: Armstrong apotheosis.

But the reason lots of athletes are jerks is BECAUSE they are "heroes", and treated as such. They end up believing their own "press". For examples of extreme negative affects of social deification, we need look no farther than our music stars, especially those who were also child stars. Michael Jackson and Britney Spears come to mind.
also, the ones that are numbskulls, are type A personalities, with a high correlation to said behaviour. if Armstrong was not a pro sportsman, chances are he would still be the sociopath in a different niche. cant change sociopathy. the things that make them great sportspeople, do not make them well rounded polymaths with a comprehensive life. they interpret their existence and meaning thru their competition, and primarily the W.
 
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