Anglo-saxons vs Europeans

[the big ring]

I found an article when I was searching for an actual Team Sky quote regarding the fabled "480W" climb in this year's tour. I was going to post it somewhere but got busy doing other things.

Then I saw San Milan's article on CN, and recognising a pattern, thought I'd share them both, as well as the oriignal article's content, as it raises an interesting "marginal gains" theory...

San Milan: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/who-is-dr-inigo-san-millan

I think the anglo-saxon mentality towards cycling is completely different to the European one; [anglo-saxon riders] are very, very open to gaining new information on their bodies and physiology over time, so that they can improve their performance.

"They're very well educated in a lot of concepts such as power, lactate thresholds and heartrate. It makes it much easier to work with them as opposed to Europeans, who it can be more difficult to educate in these methodologies.

Jean-Louis Talo: http://www.20minutes.fr/sport/cyclisme/970437-tour-france-retrouve-inventeur-arme-secrete-sky (Translated via google: http://translate.google.com/transla...ur-france-retrouve-inventeur-arme-secrete-sky)
(My French translator friend and I trying to make sense of the interview - so paraphrased. Interested in any other native Frenchy's take on it.)

Why few riders use?
"The (French cycling) environment is so rigid, so unscientific, the only thing they believe in is proof via victory. And not just any victory. Only the Tour counts. Until you show victory at the Tour, forget it.

I contacted all the French teams, but they do not want to speak with a French man. The English, they are pragmatic. They do not believe in myths about the bike. You speak to the French, they will still talk training methods of Anquetil, Bartali and Poulidor. The English will win because they use science. They do not care for myths (legends). "

 

[the big ring]

http://translate.google.com/transla...ur-france-retrouve-inventeur-arme-secrete-sky

What is it? "This is a tray that is not circular, but that is not oval either. It does not correspond to any precise geometric figure. This is very important because there are already people who imitate by an oval, thinking that one way or another it is the same thing. But this is not all the same. It is a mathematical curve: either it is or it is not. The goal is to soften the dead. It can be used everywhere: leg does not know if it's a race against the clock or something else. When a guy produces 450W, which is already enormous, with this he will produce 480W. That makes 10% more power. And thus 1% to 2% higher speed. "

(Bold is my French translator's version as it makes more sense).

 

[poupou]

Under US Postal, French were lazy, now all Europeans are not pragmatic.
SSDD.

 

[the big ring]

Under US Postal, French were lazy, now all Europeans are not pragmatic.
SSDD.

His maths is out a bit - 450 - 480 is a 6% improvement (not 10%), but that is a 2% speed improvement, so the end result is about right.

I find it curious that this has so little coverage in English press if it is true. 6% is a massive power boost for no effort.

 

[Turner29]

Maybe the French but not the Spanish, Italians, Germans...

Moreover, much of the supposed "scientific" methods of team Sky are nonsense and well-debated as such here and elsewhere.

 

[JPM London]

Re the Talo comments about being stuck in old ways...

An ex-pro, now DS - don't remember who atm - said at one point that the french approach to nutrition was the most un-scientific he'd ever come across. In the bag in the feed zone it basically just be baguette w preserve, ham or cheese, but without any rhyme or reason and it was impossible to try to change it in any way. It was a pretty funny quote so will see if I can find where it was...

I think the more a romantic approach you have to something, the less scientific it is - although the Italians have clearly showed an aptitude for both romanticism and science when it comes down to it

 

[Turner29]

Various non-circular chain rings have been around for years yet have never been proven in field test to produce the claimed power increases. Moreover, detailed mechanical analysis shows only a 3% theoretical power gain and not from the so-called "dead spot" but from the power downstroke:

http://www.me.utexas.edu/~neptune/Papers/job41(7).pdf

 

[luckyboy]

There's much debate about the benefits of oval chainrings, as far as I know nothing has been conclusively proven.

 

[Turner29]

There's much debate about the benefits of oval chainrings, as far as I know nothing has been conclusively proven.

Read the paper.

 

[hfer07]

Under US Postal, French were lazy, now all Europeans are not pragmatic.
SSDD.

+100000

Is actually "the myth" created by the Anglo-Saxon" teams to justify their doping programs by claiming the Europeans & South Americans are "Lazy" and "unwilling" to "work hard" on the "scientific approach"........

that sh!t has just been banned for life & stripped of 7 tour titles

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Various non-circular chain rings have been around for years yet have never been proven in field test to produce the claimed power increases. Moreover, detailed mechanical analysis shows only a 3% theoretical power gain and not from the so-called "dead spot" but from the power downstroke:

http://www.me.utexas.edu/~neptune/Papers/job41(7).pdf

I had one on my Reynolds in the early nineties. Suddenly I...

No, it's an urban myth those non - circulars, nice PR talk, nothing more. Maybe in theory it will have a gain but I didn't notice anything magical.

To the OP:

It's important to do blood analysis, there's many parameters in the blood that can give you very accurate answers of what's going on. Here in the US, applied exercise physiology is not very clinical, they have brilliant physiologists working at universities, very well prepared, probably better than in Europe, right? But from the applied standpoint, there's not much scientific approach, and not much clinical aspect.

For example, this blood analysis, for us, in Europe, it's a must. We even do it to junior athletes, monthly blood analysis to see how well they're assimilating competition and training, therefore we can detect problems in their training programs, identify them and correct them. Whereas if you never do any tests, you're going to miss this point, and this is what I'm seeing in the athletes here. Many athletes are overtrained. I'm kinda shocked to see how many cyclists are overtrained, they never have heard about these things. So they get used to this. Sometimes I see someone, "You're fried! You're overtrained, you're fatigued!"

"Yeah, yeah, but I'm a cyclist, I'm supposed to be tired."

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interv...igo-san-millan

Same man, different quotes. Same year. But hell, maybe the Anglo's have re invented the wheel.

 

[_frost]

Read the paper.

You probably mean this ?

 

[Maxiton]

Maybe the French but not the Spanish, Italians, Germans...

Moreover, much of the supposed "scientific" methods of team Sky are nonsense and well-debated as such here and elsewhere.

The mood lighting is what makes all the difference with Sky.

Under US Postal, French were lazy, now all Europeans are not pragmatic.
SSDD.

Everybody knows the French aren't lazy. It's not that. It's the rich foods and the wine.

 

[the big ring]

The mood lighting is what makes all the difference with Sky.



Everybody knows the French aren't lazy. It's not that. It's the rich foods and the wine.

And yet Alberto had to order steak from Spain to Pau as there was none worth eating in France.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Just looking for clarity: Anglo-Saxons aren't European?

 

[Cavalier]

The most absurd thing about this is that it entirely ignores areas in which Europeans have taught the English in other sporting fields. Take the example of Arsene Wenger - a nobody (according to the English) before he went to England, brought in methods completely alien to players there, including diet and sports science, and promptly wiped the floor in his first few years. The suggestion that it's the other way around is just xenophobic rubbish. Every athlete is inclined to do things to improve their performance, or they wouldn't be an athlete for much longer as everyone else overtook them.

 

[sittingbison]

... is just xenophobic rubbish...

No no no you are forgetting the inherent superiority of the "Anglo-Saxon" over the "European". 1066, Crecy, Agincourt, Trafalgar, Waterloo, WW1, WW2, 1966 WC, 2003 RWC, 2012 TdF. That showed johnny foreigner.

oops 1066?