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Are we psychologically ready for Merckx to ever not be the greatest?

A thought experiment. Bear with me.

In my 35 years of addiction to watching and competing in this sport of ours, lots has changed but there has been one immutable absolute truth: that Eddy Merckx is the best there is, was, and ever will be. The logic becomes almost circular - could this guy or that guy ever be better than Merckx? No, it's impossible almost by definition. It's in the lore of the sport, we understand that if we call someone the 'next Merckx' or 'Keldermerckx' or whatever that it's automatically a joke, implicitly and explicitly saying that someone has a hype that is impossible to live up to. Even when that other guy had seven TdF's noone serious about the sport would say he was better than Merckx; you might as well admit to being that triathlete that wore his aero helmet back-to-front. And if that's just snobbish gate-keeping then really it just emphasises my point.

Then there's a guy just now. Noone says he will beat any of any Merckx's records - illness, injuries, motivation, others' form are unknowable - but he actually could. At the same ages I make him one monument behind, by next weekend presumably the same number of GT's, and tied at 14 Tour stages each with the current guy potentially adding another three by the end of the week... probably I've got some of the numbers wrong. In a post-Mondialism era beating specialists in every specialism. But it needn't even necessarily be that guy, perhaps there's someone hiding in the u-16's somewhere that will be way better still.

So not 'can the current guy manage it?' but can what seems like fundamental lore of cycling, perhaps even a fundamental law of cycling, be changed? Are we ready for the idea that someone could post on here that 'xxx guy is better than Merckx' and for there to be a broad consensus?? Maybe Eddy will always have got that palmares in a better way and therefore always remain the real best there is, was, and ever will be.
 
When you think of sportsmen or -women who are often considered GOATs, Merckx is from much older era than many others in their respective sports.

You can think Pelé whose tail-end years were in the same time as Merckx was on the top. Muhammad Ali was on top too at those times. But then many other sports have much newer ones. Tennis had Federer, Nadal and Djokovic winning a huge amount of tournaments in past 20+ years. Usain Bolt was at his best near the turn of 2000s/2010s decade and so on.
 
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He is unassailable the way Babe Ruth, Wilt Chamberlain, Pele, Jim Thorpe, jack nichlaus. Mythological figures kids dream of becoming and occasionally surpassing on many levels but never every level. It’s not possible
Exactly. It's easy to get past the ancients. Nobody in part of the world would think of Pele as GOAT. No one even heard of Chamberlain but they know Michael Jordan and Labron James. Next generation will forget Jordan and the world will be better for it.

I mean, which Ulysses is better? Homer or Joyce? I ain't reading 3,000 year old ****.
 
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I mean, Pogi is amazing... but he has a long bloody way to go... he is basically 33% of the way there or less in every category! He will have to likely keep his current ability until he is ~33-35 to eclipse Merckx overall.

Merckx:
11 Grand Tour wins
64 Grand Tour stage wins

3 World Championships
19 Monuments

276 wins

Pogacar:

3 (going on 4) Grand Tour wins
23 Grand Tour stage wins

0 World Championships
6 Monuments

80 wins
 
I mean, Pogi is amazing... but he has a long bloody way to go... he is basically 33% of the way there or less in every category! He will have to likely keep his current ability until he is ~33-35 to eclipse Merckx overall.

Merckx:
11 Grand Tour wins
64 Grand Tour stage wins

3 World Championships
19 Monuments

276 wins

Pogacar:

3 (going on 4) Grand Tour wins
23 Grand Tour stage wins

0 World Championships
6 Monuments

80 wins
There are many other factors that straight palmares can’t account for
 
People don't have difficulty with riders being better than Merckx, they have difficulty with people claiming this when whoever is mentioned doesn't come close to the palmares yet.
I would submit that a focus on palmares to the exclusion of everything else is error. In fact, I'm not even sure palamares is the most important factor. You just can't meaningfully compare palmares across eras.
 
That this thread exists is a clinic in recency bias.

It’s not even remotely close. Merckx literally didn’t show up at the Tour one year because of the outcry against him winning so often. A fan was so tired of him winning that he punched Merckx in the kidney, injuring him significantly.

Now imagine his dominance in the social media age. People would be going insane.

I only remember the tail end of his career as a young kid, but he won EVERYTHING. Nothing today is remotely comparable.

Now GET OFF MY LAWN!
 
I don’t think statistically Merckx is catchable. Hinault might not be either.
I mean, Pogi is amazing... but he has a long bloody way to go... he is basically 33% of the way there or less in every category! He will have to likely keep his current ability until he is ~33-35 to eclipse Merckx overall.

Merckx:
11 Grand Tour wins
64 Grand Tour stage wins

3 World Championships
19 Monuments

276 wins

Pogacar:

3 (going on 4) Grand Tour wins
23 Grand Tour stage wins

0 World Championships
6 Monuments

80 wins
i don’t think he has to equal Merckx’s palmarés to be the GOAT when he retires. Merckx had some great riders for competition, but neither he nor Hinault went head to head with a rider on the level of Vingegaard (when they were in their prime).

If Jonas hadn’t of appeared, we’d likely be on the way to Tadej’s 5th TDF victory at the age of 25. Plus when you win multiple Tours and someone beats you who is your equal, its pretty rare you reach that level again.
 
Strength of competition is objective but it requires substantial agreement of subjective qualities. Such as farmers who race in the afternoon after chores in the morning vs professionalism of modern peloton
Yeah farmers such as Poulidor, Ocana, De Vlaeminck, Gimondi, Janssen, Godefroot, Van Springel, Bitossi

It's only meaningfully objective if they were racing against the same guys.
So we just don’t compare then?
 
Nobody will invent more important physics than Newton, nobody will write more important music than Beethoven and nobody will beat palmares of Merckx.
The reason is the same, it's called "low hanging fruit gets picked first".
Those two are honestly very debatable, especially Beethoven.

Honestly, reading the answers in this thread makes me believe the answer to the question in the title is a resounding no. People don't want to admit it yet but Pogacar surpassing Mercx is 100% possible. It's far from a given but if Pogacar can keep this level for a reasonably long time span he will get there, whether people like it or not.
 
Those two are honestly very debatable, especially Beethoven.

Honestly, reading the answers in this thread makes me believe the answer to the question in the title is a resounding no. People don't want to admit it yet but Pogacar surpassing Mercx is 100% possible. It's far from a given but if Pogacar can keep this level for a reasonably long time span he will get there, whether people like it or not.
I think Pogacar is already better than Merckx relative to the competition. Just my .02. There’s always going to be a new goat.

But the problem with determining who’s better than whom in cycling is the Clinic elephant in the room.
 
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