Armstrong leader of Astana at TDF

[gatete]

Everything JB says about LA indicates to me that he's going to be the leader of the squad, I guess is just destiny for Contador to win the Tour when he wasn't the favorite and now that he has real chances by exclusion last year or Mr Ego himself to just erase all chances.

 

[bikepure]

though, im no fan of lord armstrong, he is riding so strong for a 38 year old crash/ surgery victim. fair play, great to watch.

its off the bike where he is the strongest. playing the media and his finger puppet JB. You are on the button- AC is treading on LA's throne. There can only be one meglamaniac per team.

 

[sogood]

I don't agree. The leader will show its face in due course. By playing the LA card right now, Astana gets good publicity and their sponsors are happy with the exposure. At the same time, Contador gets some quiet time and lessens the pressure on him. In the end, the other teams will have to battle with Contador, LA and Leipheimer for the GC jersey. A most formidable line up.

 

[lookkg386]

I think this question won't be answered until week 3. LA is looking better and better...

 

[Delicato]

Everything JB says about LA indicates to me that he's going to be the leader of the squad, I guess is just destiny for Contador to win the Tour when he wasn't the favorite and now that he has real chances by exclusion last year or Mr Ego himself to just erase all chances.

I think LA will be destroyed by Schleck junior and Contador on Mont Ventoux stage.

This year's Tour profiles are nothing special (except the Giant of Provence, of course). Andorra(Arcalis) and Verbier-WTF?

 

[BroDeal]

Hogstrong will find a way to screw Contador. Even if Contador proves that he is the strongest, he won't get anything but token support from Armstrong and that will be nothing but mugging for the cameras in the later stages of the Tour.

 

[ingsve]

Hogstrong will find a way to screw Contador. Even if Contador proves that he is the strongest, he won't get anything but token support from Armstrong and that will be nothing but mugging for the cameras in the later stages of the Tour.

Ya, AC will probably have to outride Armstrong by 5 minutes before they really give up on Armstrong.

Perhaps AC will get help from his team at the Champs-Élysées.

 

[Belokki]

Bunch of breinsurgeons here...your envy is getting disgusting...stop whining like a bunch of losers!

Lance is in good form and is getting better by the day! If he's stronger than Contador, then he'll be leader if not then not! Your speculation of Lance not letting the teammates ride for victory was proven wrong all year!

Show the man some respect! He IS after all the greatest Tour rider ever!

 

[Zoncolan]

I can't see LA giving up his leadership unless AC distances him in the GC standings by at least 3-4 minutes. IMHO that won't happen untill the Ventoux, if then. I still think AC is favorite to take the Tour, only it looks like a much bigger task now that there's no clear team leader on Astana.

 

[RhodriM]

I'm not the biggest Armstrong fan by any means, but if he doesn't feel he's the strongest rider on the team at le tour I think he'll be happy... well, not happy, but willing to ride for whoever is.

 

[Snake8]

I hope if LA is strong and AC is strong that they battle. I want to see the best from the last generation take on the best of the young guys even if they are on the same "team". Just another thread to make it a more interesting race. LeMond won twice with essentially no team support, no reason AC can't pull it off, especially if other teams see an opening to exploit by helping AC at the expense of LA.

 

[whiteboytrash]

I hope if LA is strong and AC is strong that they battle. I want to see the best from the last generation take on the best of the young guys even if they are on the same "team". Just another thread to make it a more interesting race. LeMond won twice with essentially no team support, no reason AC can't pull it off, especially if other teams see an opening to exploit by helping AC at the expense of LA.

Me too. I just want Astana in the race with no other teams so it can fulfil my own personal fantasies. Other riders are not important to me.

 

[bianchigirl]

Greatest Tour rider? When did Merckx come back and start riding for Astana?

 

[BigBoat]

Lance will probably win. It will be "decided" pre-Tour who gets to win from Astana. The only one that could stop them is maybe Ivan Basso if he rode.

 

[53x11 in DC]

Greatest Tour rider? When did Merckx come back and start riding for Astana?

QUOTE FROM BIANCHIGIRL ON THE "ASTANA IN DISARRAY" THREAD:

"Unless a team really has no clear leader or GC ambitions, then who gets to wear the 1 dossard says a great deal. Armstrong is wearing it to send a clear signal that he's top dog - except that, after today, any lingering air of invincibility has long departed. The desperation was palpable.

Earlier in the commentary when he was fiddling with his bike, Harmon made his usual sycophantic remarks and Kelly said, no in those kinds of situations it's nothing to do with the bike - it's the legs that don't have it. How right he was.

Armstrong should make gracious comments about how good the top guys are and climb off so as not to embarass himself further. It was really quite a pathetic spectacle - an old man in hideous socks on an ugly bike unable to take the pace. For the sake of your legacy, Lance, get off and go home - enjoy the kids, play with the new miracle baby, have a laugh, shag a few starlets, continue to do good work for cancer and remember you can raise awareness just as much by riding with ordinary people, shaking hands, and wearing a suit. Call it quits before there are any more scenes like this, before the fan boys go completely quiet because all they really worshipped was an invincible American. Be gracious, climb off and praise the top GC guys - wish Alberto and Levi all the best for their endeavours. Realise that the comeback was never about raising awareness and was all about a mid life crisis and that the more you ride like a desperate old man wobbling all over the road, the more respect you are likely to lose."


Yeah, you have credibility. Quite an analyst of talent, fitness and training methods. It's OK to hate - it is NOT OK to hate without being able to back it up objectively. Simply stated, LA has 7 TdF wins - Merckx has 5. That doesn't make him a better rider than Merckx, but it sure seems that he is MORE ACCOMPLISHED in the TdF.

All that stated, I think that 99% of racing fans know that LA will back Bertie if he's the stronger rider.

 

[ingsve]

"Unless a team really has no clear leader or GC ambitions, then who gets to wear the 1 dossard says a great deal. Armstrong is wearing it to send a clear signal that he's top dog - except that, after today, any lingering air of invincibility has long departed. The desperation was palpable.

Or it could just be that they are going alphabetically and Armstrong starts with an A.

 

[53x11 in DC]

Or it could just be that they are going alphabetically and Armstrong starts with an A.

Ummm - ingsve, I was quoting someone else.

The real point of my post was pointing out how such derisive BS on these threads can really come back to show one's ignorance.

 

[bianchigirl]

Simply stated, Merckx retains the record for most stage wins (though he rode fewer Tours) and most days in the MJ. He also did the Double 3 times, won the Triple Crown and would have won all three GTs in 1973 (he also won Paris-Roubaix, L-B-L, Ghent-Wevelgem when the race was longer than it is today and Amstel Gold) except he was asked politely not to race the TdF. He also won all 3 jerseys in his first attempt at the race.

And that's without looking at the relative quality of the opposition that Merckx and Armstrong faced but perhaps you'd care to make that comparison for yourself, 53x11?

You see, sometimes its not about the quantity but about the sheer quality and class of the accomplishment. Stating that Merckx is the greatest TdF rider has nothing to do with a rather puerile concept of 'hatred' and everything to do with an understanding of the quality of racing historically, the longer and more punishing parcours and the length of the season that Merckx raced. Once you have made the comparisons for yourself, you'll begin to understand that belittling Merckx's extraordinary achievements makes you look sadly uninformed about the sport at best.

I'd be very surprised if an alpha dog like Armstrong ever submitted to riding concertedly for the glory of another rider.

 

[Snake8]

Me too. I just want Astana in the race with no other teams so it can fulfil my own personal fantasies. Other riders are not important to me.

You are wide by a mile wbt. Its either your sarcasm that fails, or you are finally coming out off the closet about your LA fanboyism.

 

[bianchigirl]

Ummm - ingsve, I was quoting someone else.

The real point of my post was pointing out how such derisive BS on these threads can really come back to show one's ignorance.

When Merckx first rode the Tour he carried the dossard 51 on his back - the number that has passed into Tour history as the 'lucky' dossard since several riders won the Tour wearing it (Merckx did so, as many of the greats did, at the first attempt). Please show me where Merckx came alphabetically before his teammates?

Historically the numer 1 dossard was carried by the team leader - to state that there is no cultural significance attached to that dossard, a point I made earlier in the thread, is to demonstrate a total ignorance of the traditions of the sport. As I believe I pointed out, several team leaders e.g. Garzelli and Sastre are carrying the number 1, as team leaders have traditionally done over the years.

Some teams choose to list cyclists alphabetically but the common practice is for the leader to be identified by wearing the number 1. My point, for those astute enough to understand it, was that, surely as one of the great alpha males of sport, Armstrong wearing the 1 sends a message (subliminal or intentional, take your pick) to his opponents and members of his own team with pretensions to leadership. Or it's just alphabetical for those of you who like things simple.

 

[53x11 in DC]

Simply stated, Merckx retains the record for most stage wins (though he rode fewer Tours) and most days in the MJ. He also did the Double 3 times, won the Triple Crown and would have won all three GTs in 1973 (he also won Paris-Roubaix, L-B-L, Ghent-Wevelgem when the race was longer than it is today and Amstel Gold) except he was asked politely not to race the TdF. He also won all 3 jerseys in his first attempt at the race.

And that's without looking at the relative quality of the opposition that Merckx and Armstrong faced but perhaps you'd care to make that comparison for yourself, 53x11?

You see, sometimes its not about the quantity but about the sheer quality and class of the accomplishment. Stating that Merckx is the greatest TdF rider has nothing to do with a rather puerile concept of 'hatred' and everything to do with an understanding of the quality of racing historically, the longer and more punishing parcours and the length of the season that Merckx raced. Once you have made the comparisons for yourself, you'll begin to understand that belittling Merckx's extraordinary achievements makes you look sadly uninformed about the sport at best.

I'd be very surprised if an alpha dog like Armstrong ever submitted to riding concertedly for the glory of another rider.

What a joke. I am belittling Merckx? He is a hero of mine - he is class. Following cycling since 1982, I understand the rich history of the Euro scene, and could not have MORE respect for the long line of my cycling heros. The issue is more about the fact that you continuously pound Lance in such a sophomoric and tiresome manner that you are becoming a bore. Read back through your posts.

You were wrong about Lance's fitness - you will be wrong in the event that Bertie is the stronger of the two. But please continue to issue your proclamations.

I am a Lance fan, but he is FAR from my favorite rider (Cav, VdV, many others).

 

[ALBERTIÑO]

Hey people do you think JB is going to sit down AC during TdF?? i dont think that people, Ac has a lot train in his leg and last year was unfairly banned to race so i think Ac is going by him self; JB can say support Lance, but Ac and his team mate are with Ac, AC is going to atack ,when he decide and any body is going to stop him. He has also the suport of Chechu Rubiera, LEvi, LOpez and Hernandez baby Jesus; All this **** about LAnce leading tour make Ac more stronger, he is trainning hard these days , watching French roads . The other day up three times the stage of Andorra, and this week is in monT venteux race . HE IS GOINg to win and if no body of his team suport him he goes by him self; He is a 3 GT WInner , He deserve to lead a team.

 

[Epicycle]

Contador says:

For the Tour de France though, the Tour of Italy is the ideal race for him to polish up his condition. Really, though, the Giro is just one step for Lance. The big one is the Tour. As for how far Lance can go there, it's certainly possible he could be stronger than me, and if he is, I'm prepared to work for him.

But the hierarchy inside Astana is something we're deciding as the race goes on. If we get to the big climbs like Mont Ventoux, and we still don't know who's leader for the Tour, the team will be in big trouble.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/others/cycling-can-lance-armstrong-ride-high-again-1687699.html

 

[bianchigirl]

Sorry, where was I wrong about Armstrong's fitness? The race is only just halfway through with several decisive stages to come. I said he looked tired and had lost the air of invincibility he once had. This is what I perceive from the photos of him, from watching the race. Your very personal attacks do nothing to advance the argument in a civil or adult way, but ad hominem attacks are what one comes to expect from defenders of Armstrong - they seem to be as thin skinned as their hero.

I suspect today's stage will tell us all - acolytes and critics alike - what we need to know about Armstrong. BTW an eye witness in the finish area of the Milan stage said how tired he looked at the finish and what difficulty he had holding the pace when the speed went up. He has declared he will take the Horner role for Leipheimer but surely that makes no sense? Better to have Popovych play that role and let Armstrong ride into fitness at his own pace - what say you 53, long time fan and all round font of cycling knowledge?

(BTW, I met Tom Simpson when I was 4, saw my first TdF stage a year later, have helped organise regional championships and hosted stagiaires when I lived in France and reported for the original cycling news way back when - does this entitle me to an opinion on pro cycling? )

 

[ingsve]

Some teams choose to list cyclists alphabetically but the common practice is for the leader to be identified by wearing the number 1. My point, for those astute enough to understand it, was that, surely as one of the great alpha males of sport, Armstrong wearing the 1 sends a message (subliminal or intentional, take your pick) to his opponents and members of his own team with pretensions to leadership. Or it's just alphabetical for those of you who like things simple.

My point with bringing up the alphabetical numberings is that sometimes things are just what they are and not part of some psycological mindgame.

Conspiracy theorists always see patterns when there is none.

I'm not saying that there is clearly no purpose behind the Astanas numbers but at the same time there is no positive proof that there is in fact intent behind it.

I think the only significant thing you can say is that Levi isn't the No 1 which is more telling than the fact that Armtrong is the No 1. The first fact is not a coincidence but the 2nd fact could be a coincidence.