Astana: Vino vs. JB

[Ninety5rpm]

This is interesting:

"We cannot pretend that nothing happened," Bruyneel said to Het Laaste Nieuws. "I feel that the Kazakhs don't appreciate what I did. Secondly, there is the return of Vinokourov.

"I made an appointment with Vino the day before the Tour in Monaco. We would have discussed a possible return, but a day before that meeting he organized a press conference in Monaco, in our own hotel!

"He said there that he will ride with Astana and described his program - without consulting me - and, he says that I have to go if I don't agree.

"One day later the Kazakh Cycling Federation supports Vino and says that they can fire me very easily, that I made mistakes, etc. I don't think they still like me. How can I imagine that I will still be with Astana next year?"

So there's confirmation that Vino totally dissed one of the best, if not the best, team directors in the history of cycling. I used to be a huge Vino fan, and was even okay with doping thing (so, he got caught and the others got away with it), but this is ridiculous.

I suspect that when Vino was suspended and pushed off the team, he felt insulted by the way Bruyneel undoubtedly took over. There is probably more to it, but this appears to be very childish.

 

[Anonymous]

This is interesting:



So there's confirmation that Vino totally dissed one of the best, if not the best, team directors in the history of cycling. I used to be a huge Vino fan, and was even okay with doping thing (so, he got caught and the others got away with it), but this is ridiculous.

I suspect that when Vino was suspended and pushed off the team, he felt insulted by the way Bruyneel undoubtedly took over. There is probably more to it, but this appears to be very childish.

Someone dissed Cyrille Guimard?

 

[lean mean &green]

So there's confirmation that Vino totally dissed one of the best, if not the best, team directors in the history of cycling. I used to be a huge Vino fan, and was even okay with doping thing (so, he got caught and the others got away with it), but this is ridiculous.

I suspect that when Vino was suspended and pushed off the team, he felt insulted by the way Bruyneel undoubtedly took over. There is probably more to it, but this appears to be very childish.

There are two sides to every story and the truth is I don't care about the specifics.

In the end I think both Vino and JB are better off operating in separate teams. As a spectator I'm glad that they'll both have supportive sponsors next year and won't be sitting on a powderkeg day in and day out. It's good for riders, DS, and the fans. A win, win, win situation.

I don't see any way in which Astana can field a competitive ProTour team next year tho.

JB will be just fine. It looks like we're going to find a lot out on Thurs according to LA's tweet. He probably moves to a new team with American sponsors. Contador and most of Astana's riders go with him unless another team can buy out existing contracts. (Contracts are held by Bruyneel's management company) Of course some riders probably aren't signed thru 2010 and would be free to go elsewhere.

As I understand it anyway, feel free to correct me on the contract stuff if I missed something.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

There are two sides to every story and the truth is I don't care about the specifics.

In the end I think both Vino and JB are better off operating in separate teams. As a spectator I'm glad that they'll both have supportive sponsors next year and won't be sitting on a powderkeg day in and day out. It's good for riders, DS, and the fans. A win, win, win situation.

I don't see any way in which Astana can field a competitive ProTour team next year tho.

JB will be just fine. It looks like we're going to find a lot out on Thurs according to LA's tweet. He probably moves to a new team with American sponsors. Contador and most of Astana's riders go with him unless another team can buy out existing contracts. (Contracts are held by Bruyneel's management company) Of course some riders probably aren't signed thru 2010 and would be free to go elsewhere.

As I understand it anyway, feel free to correct me on the contract stuff if I missed something.

You are pretty much bang-on with your assessment.
You are correct that JB has the riders contract through his holding company Olympus SARL.
However I don't expect Contador to be with JB after this year. There is too much water under the bridge that goes way back before the Tour. I expect he will be released from his contract - as it would be foolhardy to keep a rider that does not want to ride for you.

 

[Amsterhammer]

From the Dutch late evening Tour show - JB will leave Astana "before the Vuelta", as will "all" Americans. Thursday's expected announcement as per LA's twitter will, no doubt, reveal Nike as sponsor of LA's own new team for next year, which will obviously be run by JB.

Theo de Rooij who was Rabo DS at the time of the Rasmussen affair and who subsequently resigned, said that he was absolutely not going to be the next Astana DS - this because there are plenty of rumors in Holland that he will shortly be back in cycling as a DS or assistant.

 

[colwildcat]

From the Dutch late evening Tour show - JB will leave Astana "before the Vuelta", as will "all" Americans. Thursday's expected announcement as per LA's twitter will, no doubt, reveal Nike as sponsor of LA's own new team for next year, which will obviously be run by JB.

Theo de Rooij who was Rabo DS at the time of the Rasmussen affair and who subsequently resigned, said that he was absolutely not going to be the next Astana DS - this because there are plenty of rumors in Holland that he will shortly be back in cycling as a DS or assistant.

Is there any indication that they are going to look to field an all American team? Just don't see that being successful unless you can convince a bunch of guys from Garmin and Columbia to jump ship. Hadn't seen anything to that effect, other than your comment that "all Americans" will leave Astana.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Is there any indication that they are going to look to field an all American team? Just don't see that being successful unless you can convince a bunch of guys from Garmin and Columbia to jump ship. Hadn't seen anything to that effect, other than your comment that "all Americans" will leave Astana.

I dont think it will be an "all American" team - but it will be a team built around LA for the Tour next year. I expect Contador - and his loyal domestiques - to leave.
I don't expect Nike to be title sponsor, but they will be involved, as will Livestrong. If it is an American sponsor - as I would suspect - then the Tour will be the main objective, so I think LA will go back to his 'normal' pre Tour preparation, ie the Dauphine and not the Giro.

 

[indurain666]

Someone dissed Cyrille Guimard?

hehehehe..thought the same thing. JB the best director.?? lol... but heck, this was posted by the same guy that 2 weeks ago was posting "Armstrong vs Sastre" polls.

Anyway, another waste of forum space

 

[pmcg76]

I think Contador should go his own way, forget Astana or the Lance team. I mean Lance is already talking about being better next year so it would be just the same rubbish as this year again.

Contador is the best stage race rider at the moment and should be undisputed leader at whatever team he is at. This is not going to happen at Astana or a team partly owned by Lance. He should have gout out last year, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"

 

[colwildcat]

hehehehe..thought the same thing. JB the best director.?? lol... but heck, this was posted by the same guy that 2 weeks ago was posting "Armstrong vs Sastre" polls.

Anyway, another waste of forum space

Yes, because "forum space" is so precious and expensive a commodity, we wouldn't want to waste it on a discussion that many people find interesting.....

I'll be really interested to see if Kloden sticks with Vino or jumps ship. I think he's proven this last 2 weeks that he could be considered a podium threat for next year.

 

[BroDeal]

I don't see any way in which Astana can field a competitive ProTour team next year tho.

They have money. They should be able to buy a decent team. We need a list of riders who will be on the market for next season.

 

[Parrot23]

Looks like a pyrrhic "victory" only for Vino. Don't know how he thinks he's going to be received.

 

[colwildcat]

Looks like a pyrrhic "victory" only for Vino. Don't know how he thinks he's going to be received.

He's another that strikes me as not caring. He clearly thinks he's the boss and that it is still his team. So, we'll see what scraps he hsa left to play with when he gets there.

 

[Anonymous]

Looks like a pyrrhic "victory" only for Vino. Don't know how he thinks he's going to be received.

The dude rides in a jersey with his picture on it and something to the effect of "Vino forever" in bold type. I am thinking he has a skewed sense of reality...

 

[BroDeal]

The dude rides in a jersey with his picture on it and something to the effect of "Vono forever" in bold type. I am thinking he has a skewed sense of reality...

Too bad Armstrong was not staying. Seeing a battle between the two giant egos would have been great fun.

 

[RigelKent]

The dude rides in a jersey with his picture on it and something to the effect of "Vono forever" in bold type. I am thinking he has a skewed sense of reality...

And it is almost certainly encouraged by the Kazakh federation.

They have money. They should be able to buy a decent team. We need a list of riders who will be on the market for next season.

They need the next American rider. I think both JB and LA see him as already in the stable in Taylor Phinney.

 

[Parrot23]

LOL, Vino would have relied on special measures, as in Kazak mafia, stilettos, that kinda stuff.

And how about "Bruno" (or Borat, whatever) as the new Astana DS?

A strategic genius.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Is there any indication that they are going to look to field an all American team? Just don't see that being successful unless you can convince a bunch of guys from Garmin and Columbia to jump ship. Hadn't seen anything to that effect, other than your comment that "all Americans" will leave Astana.

I in no way suggested that JB and LA are putting together an all-American team. The report I saw said exactly what I posted - "all Americans" would be leaving Astana, no more, no less. I don't believe for a moment that they intend to build a team from one nationality.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

hehehehe..thought the same thing. JB the best director.?? lol... but heck, this was posted by the same guy that 2 weeks ago was posting "Armstrong vs Sastre" polls.

Anyway, another waste of forum space

What's wrong with the LA vs Sastre Poll? That outcome is still up in the air. If Sastre does reasonably well in the TT and gets a few minutes on Armstrong between tomorrow and Ventoux, it will be close to even.

 

[BeachBum]

However I don't expect Contador to be with JB after this year.

Agreed, not only too much water but LA will want him on another team. The TTT (if they have it again) will be LA's best chance to take time on AC.

 

[Golddigger]

Agreed. Remember when Vino made his move to the top after his best friend died in Paris-Nice? He dedicated his riding to the sole of his lost amigo, but then sold it to the devil, or was it his buds blood that he transfused?

 

[klodifan]

But will Vino's Astana be allowed in the tour? From a fan's perspective it would make the race much more competitive seeing Vino vs. LA vs. AC vs. AS vs. AV vs. IB vs. et. al.

Any news about Kash and Kessler? Are they going to join the Vino train? Kloden is a free agent at the end of the season, where will he go? We know he is afraid of leadership, so does he stay with Astana or go with Contador? I don't see him going with LA, but money talks.

 

[richwagmn]

But will Vino's Astana be allowed in the tour? From a fan's perspective it would make the race much more competitive seeing Vino vs. LA vs. AC vs. AS vs. AV vs. IB vs. et. al.

Any news about Kash and Kessler? Are they going to join the Vino train? Kloden is a free agent at the end of the season, where will he go? We know he is afraid of leadership, so does he stay with Astana or go with Contador? I don't see him going with LA, but money talks.

No way Vino gets to go the TDF. Not sure about Astana.

 

[Anonymous]

now before i say my peice, i dont mind JB, yes hes an arrogant SOB, yes he has too much power, but he is right up there with BR as the best director sportif out there..

BUT

Astana is Vinnys baby, always has been, always will be, and nobody, not even JB is allowed to screw with Vinnys baby.. He always knew Vinny would be back, so its no surprise, it was only ever a temporary ticket so he should quit whining and get on with his new team

And yes, im a vino fan.. Yes i was gutted when he failed the test, id honestly beleive he could win that tour, and the early crashes, the sight of vinny riding wrapped in bandages, blood showing throught the bandages but still giving it everything was awfu...
but im kinda over it, because he was one of the most tenacious, exciting riders to watch, and the victory in paris was right up there with the best. Yes, a doper, yes, that disgusted me and dissapointed me, but, one of the most aggresive (sometimes stupidly) riders around, and would be a welcome breath of fresh air in the pelaton, IF HE IS CLEAN

Im expected to get flamed..

 

[unsheath]

They have money. They should be able to buy a decent team. We need a list of riders who will be on the market for next season.

Care to start a new thread? I'll expect a couple of riders to come from the Livestrong feeder team. Phinney for one.