Astana

TheEnoculator

TheEnoculator

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After Bruyneel, Armstrong, Contador, you think they have learned their lessons, but now with Vino in management, and by signing Fuglsang and Nibali, they are obviously going all out on the GTs. And we all know the biggest doping programs are for GT racers. There's something going on with this team.

What do you think?
 
I think that when the Padua investigation results come out, Astana's position in the World Tour will become untenable. Preliminary reports suggest that these results will show Astana engaged in full-team cooperation with the Michele Ferrari organization. Team salaries were paid into accounts controlled by Ferrari's sports agent associate, from where they were sent to Swiss banks. More money was paid into these accounts than was reported to tax authorities, hence the charge of money laundering that will be brought by Italian prosecutors. Some of the surplus money was withdrawn and used to buy doping products, or to pay for Ferrari's services.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/17-...i-si-ricicla-tesoro-doping-912938790314.shtml

The problems with Astana go way beyond Vinokourov's blood doping.
 
Astana has moved a lot of money and when a team moves much money you have to give back to the mark results. To get them we know what is the way that is often used. Astana has had a close relationship since birth with disreputable doctors. I do not think the renovation is so deep this year, hopefully, but it is difficult in such a short time.
 
I'll take it Enoculator that you didn't read the news item on the main page regarding Fuglsang. He was stating that it is hard to find a clean team. And here he is signing for Astana.

But lets be honest. Kreuziger failed to reach the lofty heights Astana set for him. Now does that mean he was on a Vino like program and couldn't deliver or that he was on next to no program and did remarkably well? Perhaps there is another option as...feel free to add it anyone. Also Fuglsang was shafted heavily by Bruyneel this year. He missed every GT didn't he? Nibali cannot get priority at every race and Fuglsang is a solid racer. Back on Radioshack Andy Schleck get top pegging, then Kloden and Horner are still kicking and Maxime Monfort is there as well. Depending on the teams aims and goals...well that will set the scene. BTW, Nibali has been linked to Ferrari before. Whether he lost Ferrari and hence Vino and Astana have set him up with someone else to handle his program...well it's a possibility to explain joining Astana. Of course the massive paycheque Liquigas couldn't match doesn't hurt either. And we all know doping programs cost some serious $$$.

Let's face it, I think there is one person on the entire forum who doesn't think Astana dopes to a degree. Though if they race like Vino use to it'll be interesting. Kreuziger and Nibali work very well together. Very well. I for one am glad they are back racing together. Did any of the Liquigas guys join Nibali? Like Szymd? Anyone know?
 
Galic Ho said:
Let's face it, I think there is one person on the entire forum who doesn't think Astana dopes to a degree.
Click to expand...

Pat on the forum too?
 
I don't think anyone will feel like defending Astana and this thread will die a short dead....like so many thread.
 
Galic Ho said:
I'll take it Enoculator that you didn't read the news item on the main page regarding Fuglsang. He was stating that it is hard to find a clean team. And here he is signing for Astana.

But lets be honest. Kreuziger failed to reach the lofty heights Astana set for him. Now does that mean he was on a Vino like program and couldn't deliver or that he was on next to no program and did remarkably well? Perhaps there is another option as...feel free to add it anyone. Also Fuglsang was shafted heavily by Bruyneel this year. He missed every GT didn't he? Nibali cannot get priority at every race and Fuglsang is a solid racer. Back on Radioshack Andy Schleck get top pegging, then Kloden and Horner are still kicking and Maxime Monfort is there as well. Depending on the teams aims and goals...well that will set the scene. BTW, Nibali has been linked to Ferrari before. Whether he lost Ferrari and hence Vino and Astana have set him up with someone else to handle his program...well it's a possibility to explain joining Astana. Of course the massive paycheque Liquigas couldn't match doesn't hurt either. And we all know doping programs cost some serious $$$.

Let's face it, I think there is one person on the entire forum who doesn't think Astana dopes to a degree. Though if they race like Vino use to it'll be interesting. Kreuziger and Nibali work very well together. Very well. I for one am glad they are back racing together. Did any of the Liquigas guys join Nibali? Like Szymd? Anyone know?
Click to expand...

Wait what 😕
 
Given that Astana have run into these problems before but have always been able come through them - no doubt brown envelopes pushed in the direction of the UCI always help. I'm sure that they will be able to get through this.

Vino has doping and also bribery allegations against him.

And the Kazakh fed will be sure to look after Vino just like they did before.
 
Galic Ho said:
Kreuziger and Nibali work very well together. Very well. I for one am glad they are back racing together. Did any of the Liquigas guys join Nibali? Like Szymd? Anyone know?
Click to expand...
Vanotti and Agnoli. Capecchi and Szmyd went to Movistar.
 
LaFlorecita said:
Wait what 😕
Click to expand...

Sure there was talk of tension, but the 2010 Giro had Kreuziger setting pace for Nibali nonstop. Proof is in the pudding. They put differences aside and focus on working for the stronger rider and it tends to work for them.

If this weren't the case Kreuziger would be leaving Astana. I haven't heard of him leaving. Brajkovic and Kreuziger are good support for Nibali regardless of personality issues. I think you'll find the the issues before were over who was going to be the heir apparent at Liquigas. Nibali got the nod for whatever reason despite Kreuziger having at the time slightly better palmares. But that is from 2009. Three years later Nibali has the better palmares.
 
cineteq said:
Vanotti and Agnoli. Capecchi and Szmyd went to Movistar.
Click to expand...

Valverde must be loving that. Liquigas are almost a no show now on. Gonna be the Peter Sagan special all year long.

As Zam said, an Astana thread in the Clinic kind of speaks for itself and the funny thing is their results the last two years have been kind of plain if one ignores Vino's occasional flair. Some good stage wins and that is it. Maybe with Nibali there now, there is a case to be made for posting here in 2013?🙄
 
Tinman said:
Pat on the forum too?
Click to expand...

No not Pat. I wouldn't put it past his son to visit this place though. The Vino/Astana fan is kind of a dead give away. Read the Pro racing threads and you'll spot them pretty easy. The avatar pic is a hint.
 
Iglinskiy, Gasparotto, Tiralongo?

All good riders and great wins, but clearly megadoped.
 
some really suspect smoke coming from the astana fire indeed.
 
With the elimination of Johan Bruyneel I would say that Astana is the single team that gives cycling the worst image.

Vinokourov's blood doping is not good. But beyond his suspension, he is everywhere in the Padua investigation papers, as is the entire team. Let's not forget he has not been suspended for his payments to Ferrari, which are within the SOL. There is also systematic tax evasion / money laundering through fake contracts and Swiss bank accounts.

If they can find a way to quash the Padua investigation, maybe they survive. Otherwise I don't see how they can conceivably retain their license.
 
Galic Ho said:
Sure there was talk of tension, but the 2010 Giro had Kreuziger setting pace for Nibali nonstop. Proof is in the pudding. They put differences aside and focus on working for the stronger rider and it tends to work for them.

If this weren't the case Kreuziger would be leaving Astana. I haven't heard of him leaving. Brajkovic and Kreuziger are good support for Nibali regardless of personality issues. I think you'll find the the issues before were over who was going to be the heir apparent at Liquigas. Nibali got the nod for whatever reason despite Kreuziger having at the time slightly better palmares. But that is from 2009. Three years later Nibali has the better palmares.
Click to expand...

Kreuziger is leaving Astana he joined Saxo.
 
Love the Scenery said:
I think that when the Padua investigation results come out, Astana's position in the World Tour will become untenable. Preliminary reports suggest that these results will show Astana engaged in full-team cooperation with the Michele Ferrari organization. Team salaries were paid into accounts controlled by Ferrari's sports agent associate, from where they were sent to Swiss banks. More money was paid into these accounts than was reported to tax authorities, hence the charge of money laundering that will be brought by Italian prosecutors. Some of the surplus money was withdrawn and used to buy doping products, or to pay for Ferrari's services.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/17-...i-si-ricicla-tesoro-doping-912938790314.shtml

The problems with Astana go way beyond Vinokourov's blood doping.
Click to expand...

tehy should've been out for weeks now. as I've predicted here, a storm in a glass of water, all the padua investigation seems to have is vino transfering money to kolobnev. as always with italian investigations, lots of blabla and nothing substantial 😱
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
I'm sure he's doping a lot now he's retired
Click to expand...
Probably not but maybe they'll get blood values that will shed light on his previous BP data.
 
Ferminal said:
Iglinskiy, Gasparotto, Tiralongo?

All good riders and great wins, but clearly megadoped.
Click to expand...

No, no, no. Martinelli says that Astana are a changed team; stopped doping and the results got soooo much better.🙄
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-looks-to-join-mpcc

"Maybe we don’t talk about it so much, but we really do a lot (of anti-doping work). We have an internal system that monitors all cyclists day by day. We perform our internal controls."

"We are a team that has changed a lot in the last two years ago. We are seeing the results of that now."
Click to expand...

Straight out of the Dave Brailsford PR school of sound bites.
 
The key being the second paragraph.

I'm yet to see a team which has suffered a decrease in results following an internal monitoring system.
 
Yep, the one guy who you could say has actually ridden for them clean.
 
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