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Bad year for last years Podium

Jul 8, 2009
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Top 10 from giro had a disaster on GC:

1. Denis Menchov 51st
2. Danilo Di Luca N/a
3. Franco Pellizotti 37th
4. Carlos Sastre Candil 17th
5. Ivan Basso n/a
6. Levi Leipheimer DNF
7. Stefano Garzelli n/a
8. Michael Rogers 101st
9. Tadej Valjavec n/a
10. Marzio Bruseghin 80th
 
Jul 23, 2009
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The Giro top 10 is often misleading as it's a weaker race, but also because those riders have peaked for the Giro not the Tour and often come to the Tour with different ambitions.

But the 2008 TDF might go down in history as one of the weakest modern Tours, especially when you allow for the fact that the Schlecks were riding for Sastre not the GC in 2008.
 
Apr 11, 2009
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dwyatt said:
Top 10 from giro had a disaster on GC:

1. Denis Menchov 51st
2. Danilo Di Luca N/a
3. Franco Pellizotti 37th
4. Carlos Sastre Candil 17th
5. Ivan Basso n/a
6. Levi Leipheimer DNF
7. Stefano Garzelli n/a
8. Michael Rogers 101st
9. Tadej Valjavec n/a
10. Marzio Bruseghin 80th

Wow. Maybe some of the guys who did badly in the Giro are doing well at the Tour (e.g., Wiggins is one)?

Anyone think Evans has been soft-pedaling since he was out of contention, preparing for a Vuelta shot? He seemed to mention other objectives when he fell out of contention, saying he wasn't going to kill himself to finish 25th in the Tour (or something like that).

InchWorm: Menchov and some others certainly looked like they peaked for the Giro, whereas some non-Italian riders were using it for prep. Maybe not Sastre, though.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Inch Worm said:
The Giro top 10 is often misleading as it's a weaker race

That depends on your definition of "weaker" :)


Inch Worm said:
but also because those riders have peaked for the Giro not the Tour and often come to the Tour with different ambitions.

Quite right.

Inch Worm said:
But the 2008 TDF might go down in history as one of the weakest modern Tours, especially when you allow for the fact that the Schlecks were riding for Sastre not the GC in 2008.

FYI, Sastre and Andy had the legs to attack on the Bonette but were asked not to by Frank who was in yellow and didn't have the legs.

This prompted Riis to drive up next to Frank about 4 kms from the top of the climb, and yell several things at him about his lack of mental toughness, finishing with "If you want to win the Tour it's got to hurt a lot, and it's got to hurt NOW."

At this point, Sastre asked Frank to attack and Frank told him not to.

Also, Sastre said after the Alpe d'Huez stage that he was told in no uncertain terms that if he couldn't shed the favorites early on in the climb, he wouldn't be allowed to try later on since Frank was in yellow.

So, no, they weren't riding for Sastre. They were riding based on the moment's circumstances :)
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Eventually, it was clear they were to ride in support of Sastre. Granted, no one really knew which one would emerge for quite a while. I don't even think they knew up to the day Sastre laid down his attack.
 
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Inch Worm said:
The Giro top 10 is often misleading as it's a weaker race, but also because those riders have peaked for the Giro not the Tour and often come to the Tour with different ambitions.

If by "weaker" you mean "far tougher course, with much better racing" then yes, you are right...
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
If by "weaker" you mean "far tougher course, with much better racing" then yes, you are right...

+100. Obviously, this person didn't watch this year's Giro. LA himself said the toughest day he ever had in the saddle was at the Giro.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
If by "weaker" you mean "far tougher course, with much better racing" then yes, you are right...

agreed.
it is only weaker in terms of media attention.

At least those guys have had a good result in a GT this year... Evans???
BTW: Pellizotti will for sure be dissapointed with his tour ;)
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Parrot23 said:
Anyone think Evans has been soft-pedaling since he was out of contention, preparing for a Vuelta shot? He seemed to mention other objectives when he fell out of contention, saying he wasn't going to kill himself to finish 25th in the Tour (or something like that).

agreed. he mentioned the Worlds in an interview. i hope he does give the Vuelta a real shot. i don't think he will ever be in a position to win the TdF again. he won't command a team strong enough to launch him to a win, he can't TT better than his rivals and he isn't a strong enough climber to drop them either..
 
Jul 14, 2009
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Inch Worm said:
The Giro top 10 is often misleading as it's a weaker race, but also because those riders have peaked for the Giro not the Tour and often come to the Tour with different ambitions.

But the 2008 TDF might go down in history as one of the weakest modern Tours, especially when you allow for the fact that the Schlecks were riding for Sastre not the GC in 2008.

The Giro is not weaker than the TDF. In 08 the Giro was much stronger than the tour. The tables definately did shift this year in terms of quality though. The thing that makes the Tour appear stronger is that the best stage racer in the world tends to go for it these days. (Alberto, LA)

Also, a few weeks ago I was flamed for saying last years tour was incredibly weak and that Cadel was weaker than LA, hmmm....
 
Inch Worm said:
The Giro top 10 is often misleading as it's a weaker race, but also because those riders have peaked for the Giro not the Tour and often come to the Tour with different ambitions.

Some experts even consider the Giro harder than the Tour. Depends on the year. So it is not a function of how hard the route is but the competition, the objectives for some of the riders, weather, etc.

Look at Indurain. One can argue than the Tour is a lot harder than the Vuelta, but he never could win the Vuelta even though he tried to win it several times. They are just different races.

But the 2008 TDF might go down in history as one of the weakest modern Tours, especially when you allow for the fact that the Schlecks were riding for Sastre not the GC in 2008.
What race were you watching?

Andy Schleck bonked in Hautacam and Frank Schleck just did not have it the last week.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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People should never write off guys like Menchov, evans and sastre. They all are very strong riders and can win grand tours. I still think those guys can all at least podium in the future but not all will. I think AC was hungrier than most riders as he didn't ride the tour last year. Bring on Rotterdam
 

Bagster

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Jun 23, 2009
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avanti said:
I thought the Giro was more exciting than the TdF this year.

Watching paint dry was more exciting than the TdF this year in terms of GC interest. It was essentially all over after the TTT except a bit of haggling over third place. Even then most objective commentators in the know were picking LA for third and even most on forums if you discount the hateboyz who had him gone after the first week and the total LA acolytes who were dreaming of win number 8. There were some good exciting stages though. Personally I really enjoyed Hausslers ride and Tommy V holding off the sprinters.
 

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Jun 23, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
People should never write off guys like Menchov, evans and sastre. They all are very strong riders and can win grand tours. I still think those guys can all at least podium in the future but not all will. I think AC was hungrier than most riders as he didn't ride the tour last year. Bring on Rotterdam

Well at the end of the day Menchov can still say he had a pretty good year with a GT win. Cadel and Carlos, i think will look back pretty disappointed unless of course they can get a result at the Vuelta. At the end of the day both those guys were targeting the TdF as their main goal and both failed miserably. To be fair ASO partly ensured that failure with the TTT.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Bagster said:
Watching paint dry was more exciting than the TdF this year in terms of GC interest. It was essentially all over after the TTT except a bit of haggling over third place. Even then most objective commentators in the know were picking LA for third and even most on forums if you discount the hateboyz who had him gone after the first week and the total LA acolytes who were dreaming of win number 8. There were some good exciting stages though. Personally I really enjoyed Hausslers ride and Tommy V holding off the sprinters.

So did I! Also yesterday's win for Garate was one to remember. The most interesting and pleasurable parts of this Tour were (for once) to be found outside the (top of the) GC. Could the Tour have been more exciting as a whole? Of course. Was it a total negative bore? Only for those whose desires to see one man fail were not realized.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Bagster said:
Well at the end of the day Menchov can still say he had a pretty good year with a GT win. Cadel and Carlos, i think will look back pretty disappointed unless of course they can get a result at the Vuelta. At the end of the day both those guys were targeting the TdF as their main goal and both failed miserably. To be fair ASO partly ensured that failure with the TTT.
Everyone knew what the 2009 Tour route was well before the race. Any team or rider that had ambitions could have scouted any stage.

Blaming the course for someones poor performance???
 
Jun 16, 2009
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benpounder said:
Everyone knew what the 2009 Tour route was well before the race. Any team or rider that had ambitions could have scouted any stage.

Blaming the course for someones poor performance???

C'mon you must realise this tour's course was a poor one. The ttt is the only part of the course which wrecked certain riders ambitions. The rest was on performance.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
C'mon you must realise this tour's course was a poor one. The ttt is the only part of the course which wrecked certain riders ambitions. The rest was on performance.

I do agree with your post.

It isnt just a physical race,you must be mentally up for it as well.
Evans,for example, lost a lot of time in the TTT and felt beaten coz of that.It may not be the only reason for his bad performance but it is prolly a part of it.
 
May 11, 2009
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The saddest about this years tour is the competition. There was almost no competition to AC.

7 riders are competing with AC and Astana and it is the Saxo Bank team. Nobody else have attacked or tried to do anything in the GC. The second best teams being Liquigas and Garmin, but none of them have really been GC contenders.

Were there just 2-3 teams who wished to compete for the yellow jersey it would have been a lot better. Like it was in the Giro.

When the best 5 riders are in the same two teams it is not going to be that exciting.

Cant wait for next year though. Saxo Bank, Contadors team, Radioshack, Columbia with GC hopes and so forth
 
Jul 22, 2009
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avanti said:
I thought the Giro was more exciting than the TdF this year.

The Giro D'Italia is more difficult than the TdF. The only difference is that the later has a lot more competitors fighting for the podium. But the fact of the matter remains that, for example, the mountain stages in the Giro are a step above those in the Tour. They've got the Zoncolan, the Mortirolo, the Stelvio, the Gavia. I mean... no comparison.
 

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