- Mar 10, 2009
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14952870
... presumably after current cases are completed.
... presumably after current cases are completed.
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Cloxxki said:If you want to stay clean, or refuse to have you beef tested, just eat chicken. I don't think lack of beef will ever keep anyone from setting a top performance.
"Sorry, I don't eat beef, I'm a professional sportsman"
"I understand. I still have some chicken in the fridge I'll prepare for you"
Can you see it?
Mambo95 said:But that would require a sportsman to have an encyclopedic knowledge of drugs used in agriculture worldwide, which is a little unrealistic. How many had heard of clenbuternol two years ago? What other drugs are farmers using, legally or illegally? Do you know?
In your example you say you would just avoid beef and eat chicken. Yet clenbuterol is used on chickens too (look it up). You've eaten the chicken, which you think is OK and tested positive. Now you serve a suspension because you haven't done sufficient research into the field of argicultural biochemistry
Cloxxki said:Not so long ago, it was supposed to be all the athlete's responsibility. Know what you eat.
Cloxxki said:could an athletes buy the heavily discounted cucumbers and act stupid when caught? No. It was in the news. As beef has been. Suck up the 2-year ban.
But now that the Contador case will not be heard until November, it makes it very difficult for the anti-doping officials to change their rules.
If they do, it would almost be impossible to continue with their current prosecutions.
If Wada sticks with the status quo, as it is likely to, the possibility remains that eating contaminated beef in some parts of the world could lead to more than indigestion.
Don't think you're getting me right.Mambo95 said:And now they're changing the rules. Rightly so.
Shouldn't a person have the right to eat the same foods (foods, not supplements) as any one else and expect not to test positive?
What are drugs tests for? Are they there to catch cheats or to find out which athletes know the most about world farming practices. Is someone who unknowingly eats a dodgy chicken and tests positive for minute amounts of a substance they've never heard of a cheat?
How many unlucky innocents is it justifiable to ruin just to catch one legitimate cheat?
Chickens were in the news too, but you didn't know about it. These things are small news stories, forgotten in a day. They're not exactly 9/11. Do you know everything that has been in the news in the last year in every country?
No-one's going to buy dodgy cucumbers in an effort to cheat. It's a threshold they're talking about, not a doping free for all.
It seems to me you just want to see drugs scandals so you can point the finger, rather than actual fair justice.
It doesn't t effectively make doping allowed at all. Now your scenario may well be true, but so is someone being contaminated without their knowledge.Cloxxki said:Don't think you're getting me right.
When PEDs are also theoretically to be gotten from everyday food, extra attention is needed, not less. It's still PEDs, and food should not be used as an excuse. That effectively makes the PEDs allowed. Just don't get tested just after taking it. Miss an OoC test for it if you have to. Just be where you're supposed to for a couple of days. And feel free to take out some of your own blood before going back to regular scheduling, the clen traces will be divided by at least 1:10-1:30 when feeding the blood back into your system during a stage race or before something big. You'll be "clean". As long as you don't eat addditional beef/chicken/whatever clen carrier.
Mambo95 said:It doesn't t effectively make doping allowed at all. Now your scenario may well be true, but so is someone being contaminated without their knowledge.
I think comes down to different philosophies. I would rather a guilty man walked free than an innocent man be convicted. You would rather convict both.
Cloxxki said:Not so long ago, it was supposed to be all the athlete's responsibility. Know what you eat.
Want to take supplements? Have them dope-tested yourself if it's that important to you.
Sure, chicken can be jacked also. Right now beef is just popular as an excuse, because use/intake of clen by athletes and its sometimes use by farmers.
WADA could stick to the no tolerance stance, and beef lovers would find a way to get clean beef. Even if the farmers would ignore the heck out of governmental objections to clen use. Private farmers would grow quality meat, have tested and sealed, and sold at huge prices to beef addicts like Contador. It won't give them an excuse to test positive, but they'll have a good piece of beef, and no bad publictity. Good business for the small clenfree farmer.
Let's hope they analize the data and establish whether the meat contamination hypothesis has any merit, and suspend him if it turns out it's highly unlikely compared to the doping hypothesis.LaFlorecita said:Let's hope they change the rules and the case gets dropped.
Papparrazzi said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14952870
... presumably after current cases are completed.
At its third meeting in September, the List Expert Group, following consideration of the submissions received from the consultation process, recommends the new List to the Health, Medical and Research Committee which in turn makes recommendations to WADA's Executive Committee.
The Executive Committee finalizes the List at its September meeting.
The updated List is published by October 1 and comes into effect on January 1 the following year.
Dr. Maserati said:If (and it is still an 'if') they put in place a threshold for clenbuterol it will only come in to effect on 1st January 2012.
Even if a threshold is put in place it will have no bearing on the ongoing Contador case as he is in violation of rules already in place.
From the WADA website;
hrotha said:Let's hope they analize the data and establish whether the meat contamination hypothesis has any merit, and suspend him if it turns out it's highly unlikely compared to the doping hypothesis.
As I stated already, no it won't.LaFlorecita said:But a change in the rules would help Contador immensely. Even if it isn't in effect in November, Contador could make a point about how even WADA doesn't believe in it's own rule.
Also, Vidarte said that because the hearings are going to take place late November, a decision will not be reached before the new year, as it usually takes 6 or more weeks. Does any new rule have bearing on Contador's case if a decision is not reached before the 1st of January 2012?
Dr. Maserati said:As I stated already, no it won't.
Contador is in violation of current rules not any new rules.
Contador still has to prove his case - so the only way the current WADA meetings may help Contador is the release of new information or statistics, but again he probably has much of that already.
LaFlorecita said:Let's hope they change the rules and the case gets dropped.
Merckx index said:There remains strong opposition by some in WADA to a threshold, and for good reason. There is NO level that would indicate with any certainty that the CB came from contaminated meat. The best way to judge, in the absence of actual meat samples, is where the meat was bought. Riders in Mexico, South America and China, have a reasonable chance of eating contaminated meat, and this should be taken into account in their cases (though it shouldn’t by itself get them off; the Mexican soccer players had levels high enough to make contaminated meat fairly unlikely). Riders in Europe really do not have a case on these grounds.
there is no confirmed evidence the dehp test was ever brought in front of cas. it is and remains an unconfirmed rumour for those believing in it.
the test itself is rather a waste of energy as has been shown many times.
-there is hard evidence from one of the parties they will NOT bring the dhep test
- there is plenty of hard evidence (and it was brought over here dozens of times) in the published media that many wada lab directors (not all, of course) are for introducing some kind of threshold for clen. the reasons have been discussed to death.
but when more and more media quote the actual people in charge of testing, (this time the very visible chief of the olympic testing) contador's chances look good.
means not much to those who went on record that declared cas should operate by the cn forums pseudo-scientist's criteria.
Why do they not have that case?
Is it because the animals have not tested positive?
Are you saying not testing positive is proof of not doping?
So the abbatoir they raided in northern Spain not long after the positive was announce which had cattle full of various chemicals including Clenbuterol is a unique establishment in Europe?? Like drugs cheats, I suspect there are hundreds of farmers trying to squeeze that extra euro any way they can, it's going on everywhere!
Merckx index said:The issue is not whether cattle in Spain are given CB. As has been discussed here before, they are. The issue is whether, when they finally go to slaughter, there is enough CB left in the meat to account for Bert’s positive. No one has provided any evidence that there is.